Looking for advice on my palm care regimen

[JaFL]

I could really use some advice on my current palm care regimin. I have two foxtails, two pygmy date palms, 1 alexander palm and 1 areca palm. I live in Sarasota, FL. They were all planted about 7 years ago in my backyard and did quite well up until two winters ago. We had some unusually cold winters with about 3 or 4 freezing nights each winter. Since then they have all struggled. They come back about 80% by the end of the summer, but by the time the winter hits, they suffer again, and the cycle repeats.

There is no irrigation system in the yard, so they rely on rainfall and the occassional sprinkler watering.

After doing a lot of research, I just implemented the following regimin this past week:

> Lesco 8-2-12 palm fertilizer. (1.5 Lbs. per 100 sf of canapy, distributed evenly under the canopy with a hand spreader. I saturated the ground first, applied the fertilizer, then watered in). I just did the first treatment, I'll do another in July and September.

> Manganese sulfate and liquid copper. (I mixed 1 cup of Manganese sulfate and 4 teaspoons of copper per 1 gallon of water, let it dissolve overnight. Poured 1 gallon of the mixture down the heart of each palm). I just did the first treatment, I'll do this every 30 days in the spring and fall.

Questions:

1) am I missing anything?

2) Should these palms receive weekly waterings during the months with no rain? (If so, how much?)

3) Should I consider Mycorrhizal root treatment in addition to the above regimin?

4) Can I fertilize over mulch, or should the mulch be kept to a minimum under the palms?

5) Is three fertilizer treatments per year enough?

6) Is there an easier way to apply the manganese sulfate? As the palms get taller, it's getting harder to climb up and pour in the mixture.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Edited April 27, 2011 by JaFL

[redant]

I could really use some advice on my current palm care regimin. I have two foxtails, two pygmy date palms, 1 alexander palm and 1 areca palm. I live in Sarasota, FL. They were all planted about 7 years ago in my backyard and did quite well up until two winters ago. We had some unusually cold winters with about 3 or 4 freezing nights each winter. Since then they have all struggled. They come back about 80% by the end of the summer, but by the time the winter hits, they suffer again, and the cycle repeats.

There is no irrigation system in the yard, so they rely on rainfall and the occassional sprinkler watering.

After doing a lot of research, I just implemented the following regimin this past week:

> Lesco 8-2-12 palm fertilizer. (1.5 Lbs. per 100 sf of canapy, distributed evenly under the canopy with a hand spreader. I saturated the ground first, applied the fertilizer, then watered in). I just did the first treatment, I'll do another in July and September.

> Manganese sulfate and liquid copper. (I mixed 1 cup of Manganese sulfate and 4 teaspoons of copper per 1 gallon of water, let it dissolve overnight. Poured 1 gallon of the mixture down the heart of each palm). I just did the first treatment, I'll do this every 30 days in the spring and fall.

Questions:

1) am I missing anything?

2) Should these palms receive weekly waterings during the months with no rain? (If so, how much?)

3) Should I consider Mycorrhizal root treatment in addition to the above regimin?

4) Can I fertilize over mulch, or should the mulch be kept to a minimum under the palms?

5) Is three fertilizer treatments per year enough?

6) Is there an easier way to apply the manganese sulfate? As the palms get taller, it's getting harder to climb up and pour in the mixture.

Thanks in advance for any help!

1) yes, mulch

2) yes yes yes, palms like moist ground, most don't care for FL sand with no water.

3) no, it's a waste IMO

4) yes and the ssoner you mulch the better

5) yes but less more often is the best

6) yes, granular. It's realy not needed (extra) if you use a quality fert that has plenty of micros unless the palm is showing a problem. Same with the copper, cut it out, not needed monthy.

[Just1MorePalm]

I think all you need is a hose...Water the palms weekly...deep water every month or so and you should be good to go...All the palms you have are tough so if you get them well watered they will recover from the damage and be better equipped to handle the cold winters...

Post up some pics so we can see what your working with...But, I think all you are missing is the regular watering...My .02

Good Luck!

[JaFL]

Here are some pictures of the trees today:

Alexander:

Foxtail 1:

Foxtail 2:

Pygmy:

Areca:

Thanks for the comments. I'd had the feeling water has been a problem. The reason I asked about the mulch was because it almost seems as though one can have too much mulch. I had a good 5 or 6 inches covering some of them, and after doing an hour long pre-soak before applying the fertilizer, I raked back some of the mulch only to find that the soil underneath was bone dry. Just thought maybe too much mulch could be counter productive? Especially is the fertilizer is sitting on top of the mulch?

[redant]

Put some dish soap in one of those garden sprayers, not much, a coupe of teaspoons worth and water the areas that don't seem to take up water. This will break up the barrier that causes water to run off the surface of the soil and let it penetrate. Trust me it works.

[JaFL]

Put some dish soap in one of those garden sprayers, not much, a coupe of teaspoons worth and water the areas that don't seem to take up water. This will break up the barrier that causes water to run off the surface of the soil and let it penetrate. Trust me it works.

Interesting method.

[Mandrew968]

Jafl, you should try to plant more palms that will handle your climate; foxtails and areca palms are pretty tropical(they will always take a winter hit and look sad/pitiful). Welcome to Palmtalk

[sonoranfans]

Jay,

the alex will need alot more water than that. It is kind of dry here in spring, we might not see rain for 6-8 weeks at a time. I would try a soaker hose, and water every 4 days or so if no rain occurs., you want it to stay wet a little longer so it can release nutrients for a longer time. Also mix the fertilizer in the top 2-3 inches of the mulch. I am not familliar with lesco, but I use florikote time release palm special, good for 5 months. Other fertilizers usually need more applications. I have 3 smaller alexes, they LOVE water. Which side(east/west) of RT41 are you on? The foxtails will come out just fine, but with time release they will only get fed when they are watered. Water up with a soaker you should be fine. ANd yes the soap idea is a good one. I use pure sodium laurel sulfate(SDS) ordered by mail,($13 a gallon as concentrate) its the best surfactant out there.

Edited April 29, 2011 by sonoranfans

[JaFL]

Jafl, you should try to plant more palms that will handle your climate; foxtails and areca palms are pretty tropical(they will always take a winter hit and look sad/pitiful). Welcome to Palmtalk

Thanks Mandrew, yeah I knew it was a gamble when I put the alexanders and areca in, but I really wanted a more tropical look. Technically the Foxtails should do ok here, and actually all of the palms did very well here up until two winters ago when we seemed to undergo some kind of climate change. At the very least, I'm hoping to salvage the Foxtails and Pygmys with better/more consistent care.

[JaFL]

Jay,

the alex will need alot more water than that. It is kind of dry here in spring, we might not see rain for 6-8 weeks at a time. I would try a soaker hose, and water every 4 days or so if no rain occurs., you want it to stay wet a little longer so it can release nutrients for a longer time. Also mix the fertilizer in the top 2-3 inches of the mulch. I am not familliar with lesco, but I use florikote time release palm special, good for 5 months. Other fertilizers usually need more applications. I have 3 smaller alexes, they LOVE water. Which side(east/west) of RT41 are you on? The foxtails will come out just fine, but with time release they will only get fed when they are watered. Water up with a soaker you should be fine. ANd yes the soap idea is a good one. I use pure sodium laurel sulfate(SDS) ordered by mail,($13 a gallon as concentrate) its the best surfactant out there.

I'm on the east side of 41, about 4 miles from the coast. Do you spray the soap or sds on top of the mulch or do you rake back the mulch before spraying? Funny you should mention the soaker hoses, I just bought a couple of small sprinklers yesterday to use under the palms and I saw the soaker hoses there, but I was hesitant to buy one because I wasn't sure if they put out enough water to really get the ground soaked. This particular Lesco mix was recommended by the Master gardener at the Sarasota county extention office. I think its very similar to a product called Florikam Palm special (probably the same as what you are using). Thanks for the tips. I'll post some recovery pictures on this thread in the future if these palms make it back.

[Jeff Searle]

I hate to say, but putting down 1.5 pounds of fertilizer over 100sf of surface will do pretty much nothing. Seriously, you need to "juice" those palms up. Get rid of the spreader and use an old cup and a bucket. Typically you want to spread the fertilizer in a ring around the trunk about 3' out. For those Foxtails, I'm guessing about 3-5 pounds per tree, then water them in good. And by all means, pump the water to them on a regular basis. 3x a year is fine. If you have the time and energy, 4x a year is good, just use less.

Jeff

[JaFL]

I hate to say, but putting down 1.5 pounds of fertilizer over 100sf of surface will do pretty much nothing. Seriously, you need to "juice" those palms up. Get rid of the spreader and use an old cup and a bucket. Typically you want to spread the fertilizer in a ring around the trunk about 3' out. For those Foxtails, I'm guessing about 3-5 pounds per tree, then water them in good. And by all means, pump the water to them on a regular basis. 3x a year is fine. If you have the time and energy, 4x a year is good, just use less.

Jeff

Would you say that 3-5 pounds is true all the time, regardless of the condition of the tree, or just when a serious recovery treatment is needed?

[sonoranfans]

Jay,

the alex will need alot more water than that. It is kind of dry here in spring, we might not see rain for 6-8 weeks at a time. I would try a soaker hose, and water every 4 days or so if no rain occurs., you want it to stay wet a little longer so it can release nutrients for a longer time. Also mix the fertilizer in the top 2-3 inches of the mulch. I am not familliar with lesco, but I use florikote time release palm special, good for 5 months. Other fertilizers usually need more applications. I have 3 smaller alexes, they LOVE water. Which side(east/west) of RT41 are you on? The foxtails will come out just fine, but with time release they will only get fed when they are watered. Water up with a soaker you should be fine. ANd yes the soap idea is a good one. I use pure sodium laurel sulfate(SDS) ordered by mail,($13 a gallon as concentrate) its the best surfactant out there.

I'm on the east side of 41, about 4 miles from the coast. Do you spray the soap or sds on top of the mulch or do you rake back the mulch before spraying? Funny you should mention the soaker hoses, I just bought a couple of small sprinklers yesterday to use under the palms and I saw the soaker hoses there, but I was hesitant to buy one because I wasn't sure if they put out enough water to really get the ground soaked. This particular Lesco mix was recommended by the Master gardener at the Sarasota county extention office. I think its very similar to a product called Florikam Palm special (probably the same as what you are using). Thanks for the tips. I'll post some recovery pictures on this thread in the future if these palms make it back.

Jay it sounds like you are on the right track, but I also would back Jeffs recommendations, more fertilizer. I dont broadcast mine, I spread by hand. I put down a couple pounds per tree withing 3-4' of the trunk and dig it in every 5 months. The soap(or better SDS) should be applied and slowly wetted from on top with a soaker or micro sprinkler set up to soak it in deep, no mulch removal. I use soaker hoses made of a nylon fabric, they wet plenty, you can see them dripping. But I also use drip irrigation, specifically micro sprinklers on my developed gardens. The soakers I I have no use for the rubber ones, they just dont perform. Typically I have used soakers for new plantings before I get the micro sprinklers set up(usually next year after planting). Good luck and remember feed them well, but they will only get nutrients when the soil is damp.

[JaFL]

Jay,

the alex will need alot more water than that. It is kind of dry here in spring, we might not see rain for 6-8 weeks at a time. I would try a soaker hose, and water every 4 days or so if no rain occurs., you want it to stay wet a little longer so it can release nutrients for a longer time. Also mix the fertilizer in the top 2-3 inches of the mulch. I am not familliar with lesco, but I use florikote time release palm special, good for 5 months. Other fertilizers usually need more applications. I have 3 smaller alexes, they LOVE water. Which side(east/west) of RT41 are you on? The foxtails will come out just fine, but with time release they will only get fed when they are watered. Water up with a soaker you should be fine. ANd yes the soap idea is a good one. I use pure sodium laurel sulfate(SDS) ordered by mail,($13 a gallon as concentrate) its the best surfactant out there.

I'm on the east side of 41, about 4 miles from the coast. Do you spray the soap or sds on top of the mulch or do you rake back the mulch before spraying? Funny you should mention the soaker hoses, I just bought a couple of small sprinklers yesterday to use under the palms and I saw the soaker hoses there, but I was hesitant to buy one because I wasn't sure if they put out enough water to really get the ground soaked. This particular Lesco mix was recommended by the Master gardener at the Sarasota county extention office. I think its very similar to a product called Florikam Palm special (probably the same as what you are using). Thanks for the tips. I'll post some recovery pictures on this thread in the future if these palms make it back.

Jay it sounds like you are on the right track, but I also would back Jeffs recommendations, more fertilizer. I dont broadcast mine, I spread by hand. I put down a couple pounds per tree withing 3-4' of the trunk and dig it in every 5 months. The soap(or better SDS) should be applied and slowly wetted from on top with a soaker or micro sprinkler set up to soak it in deep, no mulch removal. I use soaker hoses made of a nylon fabric, they wet plenty, you can see them dripping. But I also use drip irrigation, specifically micro sprinklers on my developed gardens. The soakers I I have no use for the rubber ones, they just dont perform. Typically I have used soakers for new plantings before I get the micro sprinklers set up(usually next year after planting). Good luck and remember feed them well, but they will only get nutrients when the soil is damp.

Thanks, I'll look for those nylon soakers. I put about 2 pounds per tree the first time, but I'll probably do another pound or two after the next hard rain.

[JaFL]

Just wanted to add a follow up question to this: How much water should I give these palms? For example, if I set up a small sprinkler on these every four days, how long should I let it run? Or better yet, how many inches should they get?

[sonoranfans]

Just wanted to add a follow up question to this: How much water should I give these palms? For example, if I set up a small sprinkler on these every four days, how long should I let it run? Or better yet, how many inches should they get?

It kind of depends on the soil, and the "sprinkler" I guess. I would try 90 minutes(for sandy soil) and see what that does. I run my soakers for about 3hrs every 3 days in this dry time of year.

[Mark Heath]

My Foxtails look the same as yours. Like yours, mine did great for many typical winters untill the last two brutal ones. Follow the advise of the others and let's hope for a typical winter and you will have your palms back to looking good!

[JaFL]

Just wanted to add a follow up question to this: How much water should I give these palms? For example, if I set up a small sprinkler on these every four days, how long should I let it run? Or better yet, how many inches should they get?

It kind of depends on the soil, and the "sprinkler" I guess. I would try 90 minutes(for sandy soil) and see what that does. I run my soakers for about 3hrs every 3 days in this dry time of year.

Thanks. Do you know if Gilmour brand soaker hoses are any good? They make a nylon one.

Edited May 16, 2011 by JaFL

[JaFL]

My Foxtails look the same as yours. Like yours, mine did great for many typical winters untill the last two brutal ones. Follow the advise of the others and let's hope for a typical winter and you will have your palms back to looking good!

I hope so. It's a slow process.

[sarasota alex]

Welcome Jay!

In a right micro-climate in our area a well fed Foxtail should go virtually undamaged even through the kind of winters we've had the last couple of years. Like everyone else had said here water is key during our dry seasons. Pygmy dates west of I75 shouldn't receive any damage at all. Areca palms will look nasty any time it drops below freezing. The ones that were damaged also looked malnourished or overpruned. My yard is on a shared irrigation system with the rest of my subdivision and I cannot control the frequency. So I'm out there with a hose a lot.

Alex