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Suggestions needed for a large,tropical looking shade tree


Kostas

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Hello! smilie.gif

I found a spot in my Pyrgos Garden i would like to plant a large,tall growing shade tree to offer protection to some palms and cycads from the sun and frost. I dont have much size restrictions in that particular spot so i dont mind if it grows a very thick trunk or not. So far,i have only 2 species in mind,Castanospermum australe and Eucalyptus globulus or Eucalyptus camadulensis(not sure which species we have here,the one that is commonly grown locally so that there is no hybridization.Both have naturalised in Greece).

Castanospermum australe is a really beautiful tree and i have one speciemen planted in the ground and doing great for 2 winters now! It grows in a very attractive manner with beautiful leafs but its not very fast unfortunately,something i new when i planted it. It grows at a decent rate though so its not out of question. I also have another potted individual of this species so its a species i have available for planting immediately if chosen.

Eucalyptus globulus on the other hand,is a nice ad extremely fast growing tree that will provide good,open shade to this are really fast! It will also attain great heights sooner than latter and i am sure i will enjoy it. What it lacks though are big compound leafs that would add extra interest and width which would allow for shading a greater area. For this one,a trip to a local Eucalypt forest(as i told you,they have naturalised excellently here and we have forest of those in certain areas which btw,look awesome!drool.gif)would give me a nice seedling or young tree to plant immediately.

I am looking for more suggestions though and advise regarding which species to select. I would prefer to plant a tree species i dont have to that spot than one i have already planted elsewhere. On the other hand,another planting of Castanospermum would surely look nice one they are big and mature...Other species i have in mind but dont know their hardiness and growth rates well are:kapok,Brazil nut,Venezuelan Mahogany,Terminalia sp.(such as T. catapa),Dipterocarpus sp. and other large,emergent rainforest tree species. Unusual big leafs and large nuts/fruits are a plus as is fast growth. But,above all,they have to be hardy enough that they never loose a branch or their growing tips to cold. Most of the years we get -1C to -2C as the absolute minimum just before sun rises and warms everything up again. Our record low is -3,6C which we get close to only every 20years or so. So far Castanospermum australe has never shown the slightest damage for me. So something with hardiness similar to Castanospermum australe may work fine here although i cant be sure as it has never seen a record cold,only usual winter minimums. The tree also has to be evergreen although i dont mind if it drops its leafs but survives without branch or growth tip loss during a record cold winter. It should hold the leafs and look good the usual winters though. Heights 40-60m and up are all goodsmilie.gif

Thank you very much in advance!smilie.gif

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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Kostas,

If you wanna go big, fast, and evergreen, try Phytolacca dioica. The fastest there is. Can you handle it, is the question. It's not even a tree technically, it's an herb.

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Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Thank you very much for your suggestion Matty! smilie.gif

Its a very interesting tree indeed! But it grows too short and has a very wide base for its height which will mess with my understory plantings. I will keep it in mind as shade tree though as for other areas,it would be great! smilie.gif

I dont mind a wide trunk with huge buttress roots but a very wide and solid base like this one's,does mess with understory plantings!

''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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The Castanospermum will speed up after it gets settled in for a couple of years. Phytolacca looses it´s leaves in january here. Jacaranda doesn´t loose it's leaves completely untill around march/april here. I also use tipuana tipu, tabebuias (loose their leaves in march here) campher tree, avocados, macadamia, radermacheri, stenocarpus sinuatus, cassia, acacias, laurel, corynocarpus, meryta.

Cheers Jason

Jason Baker

Central coastal Portugal

Zone 10a, 1300mm rain

warm-temperate, oceanic climate

looking for that exotic tropical island look

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African Tulip tree (spathodea)

____________________

Kumar

Bombay, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 23 - 32 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 3400.0 mm

Calcutta, India

Sea Level | Average Temperature Range 19 - 33 deg. celsius | Annual rainfall 1600.0 mm

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100 feet is short? :hmm:

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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For locations where the sky is the limit, so to speak, it's tough to beat Eucalyptus grandis. Shaft-type branching still lets some light through; interesting foliage pattern and movement; annual trunk color changes gives shades of blue, pinks, greens; grows very fast; takes wide range of soils/moisture conditions.

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Acrocarpus fraxinifolius is also superb, with very showy pink-flushed foliage and well-spaced branches. Growth is fast to very fast. Smooth, grey trunk, reddish flowers. Seed is small and difficult to collect (pods usually fall from height, scattering seeds), but is available online.

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SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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I hope you will reconsider your thoughts about planting a Eucalyptus globulus or E. camaldulensis, as neither is really a good tree for a garden; way too messy, greedy roots, lots of litter and debris, and also prone to dropping heavy branches in high winds. If you have your heart set on a Eucalyptus, I would recommend something more manageable size wise as well as more ornamental, such as E. citriodora(very tall and fast, but more refined, smooth white trunks, and attractive planted as a grove), or E. ficifolia, with beautiful flowers and very dense canopy. I also like Chorisia speciosa for that tropical look, but it does go briefly deciduous for several months. Jacaranda mimosifolia is similar, Tabebuia chrysotricha is another personal favorite, Pittosporum undulatum is fast and densely foliaged, with very fragrant flowers, but it is also a messy tree with very sticky seed pods; don't use over pavement or decks. If you can get Arbutus 'Marina' in your part of Greece, this would be well adapted to the climate, and has a beautiful trunk with smooth cinnamon colored bark like few other trees, as well as attractive flowers and fruit, but is also a bit messy over pavement. Tristania conferta is another attractive foliage and trunked tree, that is fast and big, with the look of a Eucalyptus. You might also consider some of the Erythrina species, such as E. corraloides.

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Thank you very much all of you for your suggestions!!! smilie.gif

Lots of species to search for and consider! In the location i have available for this tree,i dont care about messiness at all,its all good with it providing free mulch! Greedy roots and big buttress roots are no problem either,it may send the fence flying at some point but this isnt a big deal for me,i just modify the fence when and if needed....biggrin.gif

As for Eucalyptus species,if i use one,i would prefer to use one that has already naturalized and grows in my locality to avoid hybrid seed formation and messing with the naturalized colonies purity. Greece actually protects its naturalized Eucalypts and cares a lot for their well being! Its annoying that it cares much much more about them than palms and the damage Rhynchophorus does while they both are naturalized(Phoenix canariensis). Fortunately it cares somewhat for our native palm species.

I will do some research and see what intrigues me! Meanwhile,please keep the suggestions coming! drool.gif

A couple of questions i have:

Do Eucalyptus species mess(slow down) with the growth of understory plantings releasing phytochemicals? Is it ok to grow 2 Castanospermum australe 8-10m apart or do they mess with each other's growth like Grevillea robusta does?

Jason,

How has the Cinnamomum camphora done for you? Does it ever burn? How fast is it? I have the same questions regarding your Stenocarpus sinuatus. I like these 2 a lot! Stenocarpus is even sympatric with my Castanospermum! As is Xanthostemon chrysantus and i think Cerbera floribunda as well!

How fast is your Castantospermum australe? How many meters per year?

Matty,

Searching the net i only found 20m listed as height(60ft) which isnt much. I mean even our local Pines reach this height! 100ft make it a tall tree but its still under 40m final height and with a really wide solid base that gets in the way of understory plantings. Eucalyptus reach greater height with maybe 1/3 the caliper! Of course,Phytolacca dioica is still a very impressive tree and very good suggestion for a bigger property than mine not looking for extreme heights smilie.gif

Thank you very much in advance!

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''To try,is to risk failure.......To not try,is to guarantee it''

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RE:

"As for Eucalyptus species,if i use one,i would prefer to use one that has already naturalized and grows in my locality to avoid hybrid seed formation and messing with the naturalized colonies purity."

--Interspecific hybrids between eucs are very rare (here and here) even where "native", especially where the species' ranges are separated by long distances. I wouldn't worry about this.

"Greece actually protects its naturalized Eucalypts..."

--Yikes! :huh: (At the risk of getting 'warned', I'll leave my comments at that...)

Edited by fastfeat

SoCal and SoFla; zone varies by location.

'Home is where the heart suitcase is'...

_____

"If, as they say, there truly is no rest for the wicked, how can the Devil's workshop be filled with idle hands?"

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I think both Peltophorums and Enterolobiums are nice. Both are fast growing even in some temperate regions.

I have a young Peltophorum that I planted as a seedling I started about three years ago and it started branching at about twelve feet up last summer. If anything the Enterolobiums are even faster growing and just as large and spreading and they don't really start to branch until relative high up.

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-Ron-

Please click my Inspired button. http://yardshare.com/myyard.php?yard_id=384

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.

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I don't think the more tropical species being tossed around as suggestions will really do all that well in your part of Greece, as things like Xanthostemon fail to thrive here in the San Francisco Bay Area, it is just a bit too cold in winter for them to really thrive.(They live, but are miserably slow growing, and I have yet to see one bloom here, even after almost 10 years of growing). Peltophorum is one I would think will also be a bit problematic. Cinnamomum camphora is a beautiful large growing tree used a lot here in the San Francisco region, but it is not exactly fast, and will be difficult to garden under, and will also prefer summer irrigation or a high water table, as it comes from a summer rainfall climate.

No matter how much you may think you don't mind a large messy Eucalyptus species such as E. globulus in your garden, if in fact you had one as a neighbor, or experience with living with one in close proximity, I can almost guarantee you would change your mind. It drops so much debris, and has such greedy roots, that it is really quite difficult to garden under, although there are plants that will compete with it here in California, and if you are willing to heavily irrigate in summer and constantly remove fallen debris, it is possible to garden below one, as long as you choose the right tough plants. As Fastfeat has said, hybridizing between Eucalyptus is rare, and unlikely to be a concern. If you like the idea of fast growing, larger Eucalyptus, I would also recommend other species that are quite beautiful such as E. nicholii, E. polyanthemos, and E. sideroxylon rosea. All Eucalyptus will be more stable trees under high winds if they are planted in situ from seed, or planted very young with no kinked roots. All of these would certainly do quite well in Greece, and are well adapted to surviving on natural winter rainfall and dry summer climates, more so than many of the summer rainfall climate tree species that have been recommended so far. I also really love the beauty of a grove of Eucalyptus(Corymbia) citriodora as an elegant tall tree, without all the other problems of E. globulus or E. camaldulensis. If you really want a monstrously tall growing Eucalyptus, I also like the whiter trunked E. viminalis, which is of similar size and speed to E. globulus. Tristania conferta is another fast and tall growing tree from Australia that does well here in California, but can be damaged severely if you get the occasional freezes that drop much below -3C.

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Iassú Kostas!

Well my Cinnamomum camphora started out as a branch that someone gave me and I just stuck it into the ground.It grows 1m+ a year (10m in 8 years). I do have many palms under it. Sometimes it looses big branches but untill now hasn't ruined anything under it.

Castanospermum grows very slow at the beginning but after a year or two grows about 70cm/year. Stenocarpus is as slow as Castanospermum. Only steno was slightly burt as a small tree but recovered well. The flowers aren't that spectacular here. We have little heat and they should grow better there. How about Brachychiton acerifolia?

Jason

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Jason Baker

Central coastal Portugal

Zone 10a, 1300mm rain

warm-temperate, oceanic climate

looking for that exotic tropical island look

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Here are some suggestions based on items in my yard - I have quite a few flowering trees, and I've seen first-hand how they do in terms of allowing light through, dropping leaves during the winter, having greedy roots, etc. Here is what I would recommend:

Tabebuia impetiginosa (fairly open crown, nice flowers)

Tipuana tipu (very umbrella shaped, very fast growing)

Prosopis chilensis (I really like this one - great shape, great canopy, low water needs)

Enterolobium cyclocarpum (more exotic than the Prosopis, and grows a bit slower in my climate, but has a more sparse canopy)

Chiranthodendron pentadactylon (large leaves, interesting flowers, grows very fast)

Acacia decurrens (very nice foliage, grows fast, nice veining on trunk)

I would recommend any of the above over Jacaranda or Eucalyptus. Jacarandas tend to be more sparse in my opinion, and also a bit messier. Eucalyptus tend to be too tall, too vertical, and/or too dense. I have Jacarandas and Eucalyptus at my yard, and they are nice, but I would use any of the above list if I were starting a new area and wanted some canopy.

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Resident of Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, San Diego, CA and Pahoa, HI.  Former garden in Vista, CA.  Garden Photos

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  • 12 years later...

Reviving a ghost thread. Does anyone know if Tristania (Tristaniopsis) laurina can take light frosts? I am considering it for canopy.

previously known as ego

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1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

You're a star! I normally don't trust growers' pages cos they make things sound rosey in order to sell more (RPS for instance) but these guys seem more pro. Shame it says it is slow growing though. It's my third choice so far, after Corymbia ficifolia (a hardy delonix, yay!) and Syzygium floribundum.

 

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previously known as ego

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2 minutes ago, Than said:

You're a star! I normally don't trust growers' pages cos they make things sound rosey in order to sell more (RPS for instance) but these guys seem more pro. Shame it says it is slow growing though. It's my third choice so far, after Corymbia ficifolia (a hardy delonix, yay!) and Syzygium floribundum.

 

While even their info has some wiggle room,  San Marcos Growers is among the " top shelf "  of plant resources out there, esp for CA interests.. 

" Slow " is a thought i take w/ a grain of salt..  Grow numerous things various sources, even some excellent ones  label as " slow growing /  growers " but aren't as ..slow.. as it would sound, ...if you know how to get them to move a bit faster. 

Planting a few / selling ..and observing many more as they were planted ..everywhere.. for a few years a decade or two ago,  I myself have always considered Tristania to be more ..moderate.. rather than slow as a snail. 

Corymbia f.  is a bit faster, imo,  but still not going to be a bottle rocket.  Most of the specimens i grew up around in San Jose rarely exceeded about 25ft ( Many were in the 15-20ft range )

Closer to the coast ( San Francisco / Santa Cruz / Monterey ) and in various areas of S. Cal where i've seen them, more specimens i'd see were closer to the upper end of height potential ..IE: 30 - 40+ft. 

Great tree where it can be grown.. Even better where it ...and Royal Poinciana.. can be grown next to each other. 

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7 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

While even their info has some wiggle room,  San Marcos Growers is among the " top shelf "  of plant resources out there, esp for CA interests.. 

" Slow " is a thought i take w/ a grain of salt..  Grow numerous things various sources, even some excellent ones  label as " slow growing /  growers " but aren't as ..slow.. as it would sound, ...if you know how to get them to move a bit faster. 

Planting a few / selling ..and observing many more as they were planted ..everywhere.. for a few years a decade or two ago,  I myself have always considered Tristania to be more ..moderate.. rather than slow as a snail. 

Corymbia f.  is a bit faster, imo,  but still not going to be a bottle rocket.  Most of the specimens i grew up around in San Jose rarely exceeded about 25ft ( Many were in the 15-20ft range )

Closer to the coast ( San Francisco / Santa Cruz / Monterey ) and in various areas of S. Cal where i've seen them, more specimens i'd see were closer to the upper end of height potential ..IE: 30 - 40+ft. 

Great tree where it can be grown.. Even better where it ...and Royal Poinciana.. can be grown next to each other. 

Speaking of the Corymbia f. , @Josue Diaz, hows yours doing?

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10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Speaking of the Corymbia f. , @Josue Diaz, hows yours doing?

beautifully, but i agree it's not a rocket 

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26 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

beautifully, but i agree it's not a rocket 

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Looks great Josue. Height isn't bad at all after just a few years in the ground either.   :greenthumb:

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Red cedar Toona ciliata you won’t regret that tree in 20 years time or 50 years 

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5 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

beautifully, but i agree it's not a rocket 

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OMG what a stunner. You don't get any frosts there right? 

Did you buy it grafted? Or from seed?

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previously known as ego

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6 hours ago, Than said:

OMG what a stunner. You don't get any frosts there right? 

Did you buy it grafted? Or from seed?

Yeah! It definitely is a stunner. We get a handful of frosts each year but hardly ever go below 32F. Tonight is supposed to be 33F. 

It's a seed grown tree. 

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1 hour ago, Josue Diaz said:

Yeah! It definitely is a stunner. We get a handful of frosts each year but hardly ever go below 32F. Tonight is supposed to be 33F. 

It's a seed grown tree. 

I'm def buying seeds; here it goes down to 28F but let's see.

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previously known as ego

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2 hours ago, Than said:

I'm def buying seeds; here it goes down to 28F but let's see.

You might want to research a little bit on the possible allelopathic qualities of Eucalyptus/Corymbia ficifolia. Many Eucalypts are known for their allelopathy...and it is certainly my memory with this species that the area underneath is generally barren of any other plants, possibly for this reason. Studies have shown high amounts of phenolic compounds in this species, and some of these may be strongly allelopathic. It's worth researching if the matter is important to you. Years ago, when I lived in the Hollywood Hills, I had to garden under a giant old Blue Gum, and it was hellish to keep the area clear of dropped leaves, or to grow anything under the crown of that tree.

If you want a tree that is friendly to plants underneath you might want to again consider your original idea of using another Castanospermum, since it is possibly a nitrogen-fixer, and most Legumes are not so hostile to plants growing underneath. Although it has a pretty dense crown so light penetration and, to a slight extent, leaf-litter, may be a problem for anything you plant underneath its crown. Peltophorum dubium might also be an excellent choice. The Southern Live Oak (Quercus virginiana) is perhaps the best overall canopy tree for the shelter of tender tropicals. 

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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7 hours ago, mnorell said:

You might want to research a little bit on the possible allelopathic qualities of Eucalyptus/Corymbia ficifolia. Many Eucalypts are known for their allelopathy...and it is certainly my memory with this species that the area underneath is generally barren of any other plants, possibly for this reason. Studies have shown high amounts of phenolic compounds in this species, and some of these may be strongly allelopathic. It's worth researching if the matter is important to you. Years ago, when I lived in the Hollywood Hills, I had to garden under a giant old Blue Gum, and it was hellish to keep the area clear of dropped leaves, or to grow anything under the crown of that tree.

If you want a tree that is friendly to plants underneath you might want to again consider your original idea of using another Castanospermum, since it is possibly a nitrogen-fixer, and most Legumes are not so hostile to plants growing underneath. Although it has a pretty dense crown so light penetration and, to a slight extent, leaf-litter, may be a problem for anything you plant underneath its crown. Peltophorum dubium might also be an excellent choice. The Southern Live Oak (Quercus virginiana) is perhaps the best overall canopy tree for the shelter of tender tropicals. 

Thank you so much Michael. This is precious info. I didn't know that about Corymbia; should've done more research. Castanospermum australe is a beautiful tree too and as far as I can see in online sources (it is not common here) it can take frosts. Peltophorum dubium is also on my list. I thought of buying 5-6 different species and see which one makes it better here in my conditions, but I guess Corymbia is out. Radermachera sinica was also on my list but I was told it is also too competitive with other plants around it. Quercus doesn't look tropical so it doesn't steal my heart.

Do you have any thoughts on Alstonia scholaris, Tristania laurina or Inga edulis? I love their tropical looks. 

Edited by Than

previously known as ego

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As far as the above mentioned Corymbia, i would not count on the above advise being 100% solid..

Grew up around the specimens back home in South San Jose in the first group of pictures.. Always stuff planted below / around all of these ..though  specific " plant " preference in the beds here has changed through the ....decades...

Trees have been here since ..at least.. the early 80's ( Note the Caudex- esque swelling at the base of specimens #1 ) 

Why they started trimming them like this ( Started back around 2000 or so ) i have no clue. Canopies used to be much more substantial in size before the yearly / bi yearly???  Hack - A - Thon. 🤬

redgum1.thumb.jpg.7a0f3ef1e5032906a00891b5a9d8c247.jpg

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Bigger, un-trimmed, ..old specimens not too far away ( Foster City, CA. ) ..  Church i attended growing up had a specimen of nearly equal size in front of the church. Had Star Jasmine and Clivia Lilies growing below / around it for years.

redgum4.thumb.jpg.35bca8157b43de73ac8bd1ce57ed2125.jpg

Old boys.. Corner of W 8th St. and Mansfield Ave (Street on the  left ), a block south of Wilshire and Mansfield, Los Angeles area. Some HUGE Royals in a yard further down Mansfield too..

redgum5.thumb.jpg.eab0641d3cd695c4f0d4f6bdfcb382eb.jpg


Regarding Eucs, jury is still undecided on whether or not the leaves produce Allelopathic compounds or not.. Some may, or the effects may not be quite as significant as once assumed.. 

Anyway,  Mentioned in the recent article below regarding a removal and habitat restoration project near Monterey  ( CA ) i'd posted earlier elsewhere.

One of the few monster Eucs left in the neighborhood.. Not sure which sp.

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Article:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/01/02/eucalyptus-are-one-of-the-states-most-controversial-trees-a-monterey-bay-reserve-may-be-a-model-for-how-to-replace-them/

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36 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

As far as the above mentioned Corymbia, i would not count on the above advise being 100% solid..

Grew up around the specimens back home in South San Jose in the first group of pictures.. Always stuff planted below / around all of these ..though  specific " plant " preference in the beds here has changed through the ....decades...

Trees have been here since ..at least.. the early 80's ( Note the Caudex- esque swelling at the base of specimens #1 ) 

Why they started trimming them like this ( Started back around 2000 or so ) i have no clue. Canopies used to be much more substantial in size before the yearly / bi yearly???  Hack - A - Thon. 🤬

redgum1.thumb.jpg.7a0f3ef1e5032906a00891b5a9d8c247.jpg

redgum2.thumb.jpg.0a731694005a2d48ca97760252d43b1d.jpg

redgum3.thumb.jpg.cb37a14ead51d3b0e13221cbc3d5cef2.jpg


Bigger, un-trimmed, ..old specimens not too far away ( Foster City, CA. ) ..  Church i attended growing up had a specimen of nearly equal size in front of the church. Had Star Jasmine and Clivia Lilies growing below / around it for years.

redgum4.thumb.jpg.35bca8157b43de73ac8bd1ce57ed2125.jpg

Old boys.. Corner of W 8th St. and Mansfield Ave (Street on the  left ), a block south of Wilshire and Mansfield, Los Angeles area. Some HUGE Royals in a yard further down Mansfield too..

redgum5.thumb.jpg.eab0641d3cd695c4f0d4f6bdfcb382eb.jpg


Regarding Eucs, jury is still undecided on whether or not the leaves produce Allelopathic compounds or not.. Some may, or the effects may not be quite as significant as once assumed.. 

Anyway,  Mentioned in the recent article below regarding a removal and habitat restoration project near Monterey  ( CA ) i'd posted earlier elsewhere.

One of the few monster Eucs left in the neighborhood.. Not sure which sp.

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Article:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2024/01/02/eucalyptus-are-one-of-the-states-most-controversial-trees-a-monterey-bay-reserve-may-be-a-model-for-how-to-replace-them/

Aha.. so I may give Corymbia a chance then. After all I can always remove it if it doesn't behave. Shame the flower colour is never certain when you plant seeds. The red one is undoubtedly so much better.

You are right, the trimmed ones look... awful! The aesthetics of municipalities are just incomprehensible.

previously known as ego

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I'm not saying "don't plant E./C. ficifolia"...but rather that you would be well-served to further study the possible dangers of planting it in a given situation around sensitive plants. Here are a few studies you may want to consult before you pursue planting any Eucalypts in your garden where you may want to plant any understory plants beneath its crown. I think I am safe in saying that most people who have planted Eucalypts of various species have regretted it, for a number of reasons. The worst examples of that would probably apply to the large species (such as the Blue Gum), but, even if Eucalyptus ficifolia is a smaller, more manageable species, it still has significant leaf-drop, and it is primarily in the leaf-litter that any dangerous phenolic compounds will reside. If trees (such those pictured by Nathan) are aggressively maintained by sweeping/blowing away of their leaves, it is possible they may not poison the ground as quickly or intensely as they might otherwise. Likewise, certain tough species, like Algerian Ivy, will likely not be affected because of their "unkillable" nature. It may or may not affect you strongly due to the positioning of your tree in an out-of-the-way location (e.g., at the rear margin of your garden), or of your maintenance practices, or because of the sensitivity of the species planted underneath, but it is well established that Eucalypts are capable of significant allelopathy through these compounds and therefore worth researching and giving serious consideration, especially when you have so many other beautiful, low-leaf-litter, possibly nitrogen-fixing and  "neighbor-friendly" trees available to you. 

For your further reading:

University of Florida: Eucalyptus ficifolia

Phenolics and Plant Allelopathy

Cytotoxic and molecular impacts of allelopathic effects of leaf residues of Eucalyptus globulus on soybean (Glycine max)

Antimicrobial and Antioxidant Activities and Phenolic Profile of Eucalyptus globulus Labill. and Corymbia ficifolia

Unravelling the bioherbicide potential of Eucalyptus globulus Labill: Biochemistry and effects of its aqueous extract

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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These are very interesting topics Michael, I'll def read those articles. I need to understand plants better before I start planting. Thank you. 

Btw what do you guys think of Rhododendron arboreum? Would it do well in my climate? I know it can take even heavy frosts. I am mostly worried about the dry heat we have here in the summer.

previously known as ego

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7 minutes ago, Than said:

These are very interesting topics Michael, I'll def read those articles. I need to understand plants better before I start planting. Thank you. 

Btw what do you guys think of Rhododendron arboreum? Would it do well in my climate? I know it can take even heavy frosts. I am mostly worried about the dry heat we have here in the summer.

Probably a no go, mainly due to the weather in summer..  As seen in habitat pictures, see a majority of Rhodies being grown up in the mountains / Northern parts of CA and the PAC. N.W. ( Pretty much the perfect climate for Rhododendrons up there ) where it is cooler / more humid/ rains a lot more. 


 

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10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Probably a no go, mainly due to the weather in summer..  As seen in habitat pictures, see a majority of Rhodies being grown up in the mountains / Northern parts of CA and the PAC. N.W. ( Pretty much the perfect climate for Rhododendrons up there ) where it is cooler / more humid/ rains a lot more. 


 

Yup I thought so. We regularly get Arizona-style summer temperatures with low humidity.. it would hate it. And I'd have to provide shade which would defeat the purpose of making it a canopy tree.

OK last species in my list before the big decision:

Alstonia scholaris

Tristaniopsis laurina

Schizolobium parahyba

Saraca indica

Lyonia ovalifolia

You can probably tell I love Asian species. Any thoughts on any of these? Would any make a reliable evergreen in my climate you think?

previously known as ego

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Schizolobium lo he intentado cultivar yo desde semillas y en el primer invierno murieron , lo quiero volver a intentar y meterlo dentro de casa los dos primeros inviernos , no sé tu pero yo estoy al limite con temperaturas de 40 ° Celsius en verano y 1° en invierno 

Uno que te puede ir bien es spathodea campanulata , los he visto prosperar en valencia (España) creo que tenéis un clima similar 

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Como árboles de dosel yo estoy cultivando hura crepitans ,este es su primer invierno y ya están perdiendo las hojas con mínimas de 3° 

También tengo enterolobium contortisiliquum y peltophorum pterocarpun muy pequeños que aún conservan las hojas ,estos dos últimos pueden ser buenos para ti 

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1 hour ago, Navarro said:

Como árboles de dosel yo estoy cultivando hura crepitans ,este es su primer invierno y ya están perdiendo las hojas con mínimas de 3° 

También tengo enterolobium contortisiliquum y peltophorum pterocarpun muy pequeños que aún conservan las hojas ,estos dos últimos pueden ser buenos para ti 

Spathodea campanulata no sobrevive a las heladas. No creo que mi clima sea similar a lo de Valencia. En Valencia no hay heladas, no? Peltophorum pterocarpum es bonito; yo creo tentar el peltophorum dubium que puede sobrevivir a las heladas después de su 3o año y crece muy pronto.

Enterolobium.. no sé nada sobre este árbol. Puedo ver en inaturalist que viene de las Américas y hay hasta en Buenos Áires.. Yo voy a protegir todas mis plantas durante sus 2 primeros inviernos.

Hoy recibí my syzygium jambos.. 

previously known as ego

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Llegan a 0° casi todos los inviernos y en verano hace mucho calor seco

Enterolobium parece mucho más rápido que peltophorum 

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1 hour ago, Navarro said:

Llegan a 0° casi todos los inviernos y en verano hace mucho calor seco

Enterolobium parece mucho más rápido que peltophorum 

0 C con o sin helada sobre las ojas?

Tienes fotos de tu enterplobium?

previously known as ego

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Eso no lo sé ,pero ante la duda mi filosofía es probar 

No tengo fotos por qué son muy pequeños ,los germine este año , pero para ser tan tiernos no les está afectando el invierno , parecen muy resistentes 

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On 1/8/2024 at 7:33 PM, mnorell said:

I'm not saying "don't plant E./C. ficifolia"...but rather that you would be well-served to further study the possible dangers of planting it in a given situation around sensitive plants. Here are a few studies you may want to consult before you pursue planting any Eucalypts in your garden where you may want to plant any understory plants beneath its crown. I think I am safe in saying that most people who have planted Eucalypts of various species have regretted it, for a number of reasons. The worst examples of that would probably apply to the large species (such as the Blue Gum), but, even if Eucalyptus ficifolia is a smaller, more manageable species, it still has significant leaf-drop, and it is primarily in the leaf-litter that any dangerous phenolic compounds will reside. If trees (such those pictured by Nathan) are aggressively maintained by sweeping/blowing away of their leaves, it is possible they may not poison the ground as quickly or intensely as they might otherwise. Likewise, certain tough species, like Algerian Ivy, will likely not be affected because of their "unkillable" nature. It may or may not affect you strongly due to the positioning of your tree in an out-of-the-way location (e.g., at the rear margin of your garden), or of your maintenance practices, or because of the sensitivity of the species planted underneath, but it is well established that Eucalypts are capable of significant allelopathy through these compounds and therefore worth researching and giving serious consideration, especially when you have so many other beautiful, low-leaf-litter, possibly nitrogen-fixing and  "neighbor-friendly" trees available to you. 

For your further reading:

University of Florida: Eucalyptus ficifolia

Phenolics and Plant Allelopathy

Cytotoxic and molecular impacts of allelopathic effects of leaf residues of Eucalyptus globulus on soybean (Glycine max)

Antimicrobial and Antioxidant Activities and Phenolic Profile of Eucalyptus globulus Labill. and Corymbia ficifolia

Unravelling the bioherbicide potential of Eucalyptus globulus Labill: Biochemistry and effects of its aqueous extract

Michael do you think Castanospermum australe will also compete with other plants below it? I have read its root system is extensive. Do you have any experience with it?

previously known as ego

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