The Creation of My New Palm Garden

[www.dadluvsu.com]

What's the thinking behind less species & larger populations? naturalization? If so, why not Lodoicea?

[Mike Evans]

Bo, good luck on your new adventure. Looks like you will have a clean slate to work with & a lot of knowledge of what to do best, for your own enjoyment. I am looking forward to seeing the garden progress the next few years. Sounds like that raven running through the property will add a very dramatic effect. Does it have rocky outcroppings for some intimate plantings? Waiting to see pics of it when its cleared. Best of luck!

[bgl]

Bill, no, certainly not thinking of naturalization. Very simple - I just want to concentrate on species I really like. Palms that, for whatever reason, appeal to me for their visual effects and play with concepts of how to utilize them in the garden in ways that are different from what one would normally see or expect. While Lodoiceas most definitely fall in the category of "favorite palms", it is also, as we all know, a very difficult (if not impossible) palm to acquire. At least right now. I am very happy I was fortunate to have the experience of planting the three in LPG #1, but I don't expect to be that fortunate again. And that's fine with me.

Mike, there are LOTS of rocks here. This whole island is made up of rocks! But the ones in the ravine, like all the rest on the property, are generally small rocks that are all covered in moss. Once in a while you come across a larger one (5-6 ft or so) and if I were to find any of those I will retrieve them and place them in a visible spot. I usually try to stand them up, because that's more dramatic. Well, the bulldozer (or a backhoe) would have to do that. These rocks ("bluerock") are very heavy!

Bo-Göran

[BS Man about Palms]

I missed a possible answer Bo, will you use a chipper to make mulch, that may aid in weed control? (At least if thick enough, and some composting effect started)

[bgl]

Bill,

No, I don't intend to use a chipper. In order to chip these trees you really need a large industrial type chipper and that would be very expensive. Plus, mulching MAY help in weed control but it's definitely not an absolute solution. I have tried it and the weeds are still coming through. Maybe not quite as many, but it's most definitely still a problem.

Bo-Göran

[pogobob]

Wow Bo, you must be stoked to start a new and possibly improved garden. How exciting it will be for you and your nieghbors to swing over the fences and share your passions for palms and and other interests! It will be exciting to watch the progress unfold. Take lots of pictures

[daxin]

Bo, I am sorry to hear that you are leaving LPG#1, but it looks like LPG#2 is off to a great start. Hopefully the new palm eden will get similarly fantastic hardscapes. How about a pond with aquatic palms? Please also reconsider your decision against dwarf palms. I am sure many here would love to see a perfect patch of Chamaedorea tenerrima in your garden.

[bgl]

Bob, I know this will be disappointing to you, but there won't be any "swinging over fences" for one very simple reason - not a single fence in sight! But I will most definitely take plenty of photos and post them here.

Daxin, thanks for the kind words, and more disappointments I'm afraid - there won't be a single Chamaedorea planted. Smaller palms will primarily be Licualas and Calyptrocalyx. And one more disappointment (I know, this isn't going in a good direction! ): no pond!

Bo-Göran

[Wai`anae Steve]

I have a small lily pond and everytime it rains the toads come to mate and make so much noise. I'm thinking of busting down the walls and draining it. Thursday eve I killed 19 toads.

[Peter Pacific]

Hello Bo,

I have two acres here in Guatemala and, I was going to say ¨made so many mistakes¨ but I don´t really mean that, if I were to start planting all over again I would do many things differently. To have a great piece of property and start again would be wonderful fun and an inspiring challenge. Good Luck to you and no doubt there will be detailed documentation for the enjoyment of all.

Peter

[bgl]

Peter,

Thank you very much! And yes, it is fun and inspiring. And I most certainly intend to document it here. Bulldozer should be back on line tomorrow morning (Monday) so will probably have a few more photos tomorrow evening. Kyle is putting in 16 hours, and I know we can get everything done in those 16 hours. Right now he's only up to three hours, so 13 hours to go. In those three hours he has already accomplished a lot.

Bo-Göran

[DoomsDave]

Bill,

No, I don't intend to use a chipper. In order to chip these trees you really need a large industrial type chipper and that would be very expensive. Plus, mulching MAY help in weed control but it's definitely not an absolute solution. I have tried it and the weeds are still coming through. Maybe not quite as many, but it's most definitely still a problem.

Bo-Göran

WHOA!

Those weeds must be on steroids . . .

[bgl]

Monday morning. Kyle has fixed his D-8. I've had a good night's sleep. We're ready to go. Well, not quite. Kyle decided to replace all four hydraulic lines, three of them as a preventive measure. So, we didn't get started until 11:30 am.

#1 - every now and then it got a bit messy!

#2 - Kyle wanted to retrieve some of the nicer ohi'a logs, so he cut them up and pulled them out.

#3 - Paul got a bit nervous at times. I think he was concerned the D-8 would end up in his backyard!

#4 - so every now and then some negotiation was in order

#5 - I was just happy he was making progress!

[bgl]

It didn't take us long to the get to the corner, 436 ft in from the street. After all, the D-8 broke down only about 30 ft away from the corner marker.

#1 - Big oops, Kyle had to back onto Kim's property and accidentally wiped out three weed trees! Here's one going down! Kyle is atually right on top the pin marking the corners of the four properties at this point. And this is probably why it's a good thing not to have fences around here

#2 - Greg, inspecting the devastation!

#3 - With a D-8 coming straight at you and large falling trees, always good to have an escape plan!

#4 - I am sure Dave and Greg never expected to see this when they looked at their window!

#5 - This is what you would call a tight squeeze. Kyle needed to approach the gunpowder trees from this angle in order to push them away from Dave and Greg's lawn area. Kim''s property on the left (to the left of the kennel)

[bgl]

And here I'm standing right on top of (where I think) the pin is supposed to be.

#1 - looking northwest, my newly opened up property (or rather, the back 25% of it)

#2 - looking northeast, this is Dave and Greg's neatly manicured lot

#3 - looking southeast, Kim and Steve's lot. Seems like they need to clean up some of those weed trees!

#4 - looking southwest, a vacant lot. No idea who owns it.

[bgl]

There were dozens of gunpowder trees on both sides of the property line I have with Dave and Greg. I believe the botanical name is Trema orientalis. These are weeds. I mean REAL weeds. They can go from seedling to a 40-50 ft tall tree in 2-3 years. Dave and Greg had agreed to have the D-8 come onto their property so that we could wipe out all of them. Once and for all! Most of the time everything went according to plan, but here's one tree that decided to fall onto Kyle's D-8 in such a way that he had to go get his chainsaw and cut off a couple of pieces.

[bgl]

The last of the gunpowder trees beating the dust!

[bgl]

To my amazement, there's plenty of soil in many areas here. This soil is the richest I have ever seen. Absolutely incredible. The palms will grow like crazy here. Some rocks in this pile, but plenty of VERY rich soil.

Second photo - devastation is now complete!

[bgl]

What the area looked like at 11:30 am when we began. And the second photos shows the same area by late afternoon.

[bgl]

Before and after. Both photos taken from Dave and Greg's lawn area toward my property. At 11 am showing all the pesky gunpowder trees. And at 5 pm with them all gone. Kim's property is at the extreme left.

[bgl]

And the same area, but from my property, towards Dave and Greg. 11 am, mid afternoon and late afternoon shots. In the last shot, there are still plenty of gunpowder trees on the right. The ones immediately to the right of the kennel are on Dave and Greg's property but the majority are on Kim's lot.

[palmislandRandy]

To my amazement, there's plenty of soil in many areas here. This soil is the richest I have ever seen. Absolutely incredible. The palms will grow like crazy here. Some rocks in this pile, but plenty of VERY rich soil.

Second photo - devastation is now complete!

Now THAT'S what soil should look like! Good luck on your new future.

Randy

[Jeff Searle]

Bo,

Good luck with all of your future plans, I'm sure your excited about your plans, and not so much with the cost though. Just don't forget to include all the other tropicals, especially a few crotons for color.

[bgl]

Randy, thanks a lot!

And Jeff, thank you, and yes, I definitely intend to include lots of other "companion plants" for color. And there are PLENTY of those here!

Forgot to mention last night that the entire area between my property and Dave and Greg's will (of course! ) be planted out with palms. They're pretty much giving me a free hand to come up with a landscaping plan for that area, including their side of the property line.

Bo-Göran

[redant]

A very exciting adventure for all palm enthusiasts. It's going to be very cool to see the progress. Best of luck with the garden. Do you have access to your seedlings from garden #1 to start this one?

Edited December 14, 2010 by redant

[bgl]

Redant,

Thanks a lot! And most of those seedlings are now up to 5 gallon size and some will be utilized in my new garden.

Bo-Göran

[amazondk]

Bo,

That is quite a project you have going on there, good luck. Is there any sort of state control of what people can do with their land there? That is are you free to cut down all the trees if you want?

dk

[bgl]

Don,

Thanks! And there's no "control". You're supposed to get a permit if you intend to clear more than one acre, but that is just a formality. The total area I'm clearing will be less than one acre (of the two I have) so no permit is needed. And I could cut down any number of trees. Many people ARE respectful of the native ohi'a trees and will only remove the absolute minimum in order to build a house on their land. Typically it's when someone buys land and build a house on speculation that there's little or no concern for the environment, and it's very common to see those lots being completely cleared of any vegetation. It's actually less expensive to just wipe out everything (with a D-9 typically) than to save select trees.

Bo-Göran

[LJG]

Bo, the Hilo side doesn't have the same restrictions as the Kona side in clearing natural forest? Dean was telling me you can not use tractors on the Kona side to clear forest. I could not imagine building a large palm garden on the Kona side as without a tractor, how do you clear? It would take forever by hand.

[bgl]

Len,

Your question intrigued me, and even though I was fairly certain I knew the answer I decided to call the Public Works Department in Hilo to get a confirmation. And the rules and regulations are exactly the same for all parts of the County of Hawaii (="the Big Island"). And the rule is that you need to get a "grubbing permit" if you intend to clear more than one acre of vegetation. Makes no difference where on the island you happen to be, Kona side or Hilo side. I havn't talked with Dean but what he may be referring to could be local CCRs in specific areas. For instance, I can imagine that the Kaloko area, where he lives, has CCRs that are more restrictive than the overall County of Hawaii regulations. If that's the case, that's not unusual. Here in Leilani Estates for instance, the CCRs are more restrictive than the overall County of Hawaii regulations. When you build a house here it must be at least 800 sq.ft. But that's not a County of Hawaii regulation. Each subdivision can (and do) decide on how restrictive they want to be with specific issues.

Bo-Göran

[LJG]

I never understood why it mattered when Dean told me. You can clear by hand, but not with tractor? A bunch of people can do the same damage as a tractor I would bet.

[Dypsisdean]

I can imagine that the Kaloko area, where he lives, has CCRs that are more restrictive than the overall County of Hawaii regulations.

The Kona Watershed and Kaloko Forest where I live has more restrictive regulations regarding the clearing of forest. For example, on properties of 3 acres and up, each lot is required to leave a 30ft setback of natural vegetation along all property lines, and 50ft if you front any public road. This keeps all the properties very private, and helps preserve the native flora and fauna. In addition, newer properties cannot clear (grub) more than 40% of the total area of a property.

An IPS Board Member and neighbor, Norman Bezona, was instrumental in passing regulations to protect this fragile ecosystem. Concerns with water flow during big storms, and with water percolation and aquifer management, are much more of a concern in the steeper and relatively dryer conditions on the Kona side. In addition, there is a unique localized weather phenomena that the forest contributes to in providing our afternoon mountain rainfall that is so enjoyed by Kona coffee and the Kona forest - while regenerating the wells. The differences between the Kona/Kaloko Forest and many areas on the East and South side of the Big Island are many.

[Dypsisdean]

I never understood why it mattered when Dean told me. You can clear by hand, but not with tractor? A bunch of people can do the same damage as a tractor I would bet.

Len,

By hand you cannot uproot the large centuries old trees in the Kaloko forest, break up rock, or change topography and ancient drainage patterns. And it is much less disruptive to the wildlife. In addition, you can not scrape a plot clean in an afternoon, after which it is too late to do anything about it. It would take hundreds of years to regenerate here in Kona, and because of all the invasive species now present, it would never again return to the native ecosystem. Plus, a slight change of topography upslope has been known to flood large previously safe areas occupied by homes downhill.

And I could have been more specific. The 40% that you are allowed to clear for houses, barns, etc. can be cleared with a bulldozer. It's the remaining area that no wholesale grubbing is permitted. You can use smaller machines with a restriction on how much per year. Or an unlimited amount if "gardening" by hand. I have chosen to do most of my remaining clearing and planting by hand in an attempt to preserve the "feel" of Kaloko's old growth forest.

[MattyB]

Plus, a slight change of topography upslope has been known to flood large previously safe areas occupied by homes downhill.

We know this to be true here in San Diego. I've seen news stories where they've developed a hilltop, changed the topography and the houses below were flooded and mudded. The native hillside at my place is incredibly resilient but as soon as you start to cut paths into it and water consolidates into swales, soon swales can turn into ruts, and ruts turn into creeks and creeks turn into canyons, and next thing you know I can see DeanO's house from Spring Valley.

[OB Burt]

Congratulations Bo on your new project. I wish I had 1/2 your energy.

Burt Repine

[bgl]

Burt, thanks a lot! And the way it works with energy - the more you use, the more you get!

Dean, thanks for the detailed explanation. After talking with Norm a number of times I knew there were special restrictions in place in Kaloko. I just didn't know the full details.

[Annika]

Congratulations Bo on your new project. I wish I had 1/2 your energy.

Burt Repine

I'm his daughter and wish I had 1/10th his energy

[bgl]

Annika,

Thanks a lot! And we both know you're being way too modest!

Pappa

[Dypsisdean]

Annika,

Thanks a lot! And we both know you're being way too modest!

Pappa

From what I've heard, she could make an impressive list in this topic.

Traveling the World

[BS Man about Palms]

Having fun watching this for many reasons...but one of which is the heavy equipment.. I was taught how to drive a dumptruck once and drove that a while.. Same place/friend showed me and let me use their giant crane once... A D-9 or any good sized tractor would be cool to drive around!! I've used Bobcats several times and they are fun, just not the same!

Grub away!!