Arbor Day Foundation hardiness map

[Dave-Vero]

I suspect that the zone 10 birdsfoot delta of the Mississippi is not long for this world.

The upper midwest and Wyoming seem to have really warmed.  Back in 1979, Wyoming "zone 4" meant a month of low temperatures hovering between -20 and -30, ending with a -50 blowout for New Years.

[spockvr6]

On a lighter note----

[Scott]

I wish there was something that could give me an accurate zone reading.

The arbor day site says I'm zone 9 - 11 ???  That's crazy!

9 in the winter - 11 in the summer?  ???

Well even here in the small community of Granada Hills, there are vastly different micro-climates which truly vary by street. On my side of the street, my property abuts a hill and whaterever hits that hill - wind - cold - heat etc. reflects right down onto my palms. Whereas accross the street it's actually different!

[JBa3Fan]

I guess I can tell you all next month if I am really in zone 8 here in Central Virgina .

I hope this map is right , but I really don't think so

Jim

[alex_7b]

"Now, word is that the USDA is working on the lastest version of the map and it will include 30 years worth of data.....not 15.  I wonder why? "  (Larry in TS, FL)

It's about time! I think most folks would like to see a map based on a longer run than just 15 years. The data is available for the past 100 years. I think a 15-year map showing a rapid warmup is politically and financially motivated. The libs push the GW agenda and the scientists get more grant money from the US government.

Gardeners and eccentrics (like ourselves) just want to know what to expect in a given locale. We care more about the accuracy than the source. Too bad both are entwined together.

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Dec. 22 2006,19:59)

QUOTE

Going back a few days and looking at the above map, I have some questions.

Can lutescens be grown in Zone 9 with proper precautions - does it regrow from the roots, or is it toast?  Esp. coastal carolinas zone 9.

And what is Atlanta doing in Zone 8?

[SunnyFl]

(alex_7b @ Dec. 23 2006,18:11)

QUOTE

It's about time! I think most folks would like to see a map based on a longer run than just 15 years. The data is available for the past 100 years. I think a 15-year map showing a rapid warmup is politically and financially motivated. The libs push the GW agenda and the scientists get more grant money from the US government.

I think a lot depends on if you live in an urban area or not.  15 years' data might yield a more accurate picture in metropolitan areas, since the longer runs wouldn't weight urban "heat islands" effects sufficiently.

OTOH, this wouldn't apply in the rural areas of, for example, Central FL (the areas not near I-4), where a longer term might be more useful.  But due to heat-island effects, the climate in Orlando, Tampa (Orlampa?), and St. Pete would be affected by the explosion in population and development.

It's not just "the libs" that are pushing a GW agenda.  It's also the observers recording worldwide temperature fluctuations and reporting on the constant melting of polar ice.  If it continues, the rise in sea levels is a threat to U.S. coastal areas.  Then, there's the possibility of a gradual shutdown of the Gulfstream.  It's not just "libs" that have an agenda.  The oilmen (whose interests are more than adequately represented in Washington) also have an agenda against the GW theory.  If they would devote more of their efforts and resources to finding renewable, clean (and hopefully inexpensive) energy sources, we might even get free of our wretched dependence on OPEC - and hopefully make a whale of a profit in so doing.

Interesting to note that Jeb is getting involved with this

[SubTropicRay]

That's good Larry.  I borrowed the image.

[NBTX11]

(JBa3Fan @ Dec. 23 2006,14:32)

QUOTE

I guess I can tell you all next month if I am really in zone 8 here in Central Virgina .

I hope this map is right , but I really don't think so

Jim

Statistics do not lie.  All they did was plug in the statistics to come up with the map.  You can't manipulate hard data.

It looks like central VA is zone 7 not 8, with coastal VA beach area zone 8.  It looks like there is a small heat island zone 8 near Richmond, I think.

[NBTX11]

(SunnyFl @ Dec. 23 2006,18:41)

QUOTE

And what is Atlanta doing in Zone 8?

Guys, they aren't making up these numbers.  These are the numbers that have been accumulated the last 15 years, and for ATL, it is a zone 8.  Believe it or not.

[spockvr6]

(alex_7b @ Dec. 23 2006,18:11)

QUOTE

"Now, word is that the USDA is working on the lastest version of the map and it will include 30 years worth of data.....not 15.  I wonder why? "  (Larry in TS, FL)

It's about time! I think most folks would like to see a map based on a longer run than just 15 years. The data is available for the past 100 years. I think a 15-year map showing a rapid warmup is politically and financially motivated. The libs push the GW agenda and the scientists get more grant money from the US government.

Gardeners and eccentrics (like ourselves) just want to know what to expect in a given locale. We care more about the accuracy than the source. Too bad both are entwined together.

My comment was an attempt at displaying what your post discusses.....the source of the map defines what they want the map to look like, and thus the data period used.

I am with you....I would much prefer a map using as long of a data period as possible.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Dec. 23 2006,19:00)

QUOTE

It's not just "the libs" that are pushing a GW agenda.  It's also the observers recording worldwide temperature fluctuations and reporting on the constant melting of polar ice.  If it continues, the rise in sea levels is a threat to U.S. coastal areas.  Then, there's the possibility of a gradual shutdown of the Gulfstream.  It's not just "libs" that have an agenda.  The oilmen (whose interests are more than adequately represented in Washington) also have an agenda against the GW theory.  If they would devote more of their efforts and resources to finding renewable, clean (and hopefully inexpensive) energy sources, we might even get free of our wretched dependence on OPEC - and hopefully make a whale of a profit in so doing.

Interesting to note that Jeb is getting involved with this

Sunny-

Your comments are well taken.

But....what does all of this political scheming taking place have to do with our gardening maps!?!?!?  We just want data given to us as it is and without bias.   The political junk can stay elsewhere.

Maybe we should start a bumper sticker campaign------"Special Interest Groups......Stay out of My Garden"!

[spockvr6]

(spockvr6 @ Dec. 23 2006,21:18)

QUOTE

Maybe we should start a bumper sticker campaign------"Special Interest Groups......Stay out of My Garden"!

Or one of my favorite movie quotes (Jack Nicholson from "As Good As It Gets")----

"Go sell crazy elsewhere....were all stocked up here".

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Dec. 23 2006,20:50)

QUOTE

(SunnyFl @ Dec. 23 2006,18:41)

QUOTE

And what is Atlanta doing in Zone 8?

Guys, they aren't making up these numbers.  These are the numbers that have been accumulated the last 15 years, and for ATL, it is a zone 8.  Believe it or not.

Here another idea.......wouldnt it be nice if all the source data used to create the maps was available as well?

[richtrav]

Actually it was available for the 1990 map, I bought it long ago and it's falling apart somewhere around here right now.

[Alan_Tampa]

Raw data and statistics can be used to lie without much effort - by presenting only data which fits the model in question.  Also, conclusions from data are frequently pre-concluded and then data which "agrees" is offered as proof.  Hence, the small data set.

That being said, the Arbor club dudes probably have no real agenda, unfortunatly people tend to influence whatever data or product or whatever with personal perspective and beliefs, without being guilty of purposely promoting or naysaying any given whatever.

Fact is , Florida has had warm periods in the 1800's 1900's and this current century will have the same.

Late 1800's was cold as hell, like the 1980's and such, 1958 - 1962 are some of the record holders, warm and cold, if memory serves.  The  1962 freeze moved citrus 200 miles south, Citrus County is not named that as a funny, citrus was grown there.  A long time went by before any new plantings were made there - a real long time. Hillsborough became the northern most citrus stronghold after that 18F bs.

I would think oscillation  best describes the changes of "the zones"

Alan

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Dec. 23 2006,21:18)

QUOTE

Maybe we should start a bumper sticker campaign------"Special Interest Groups......Stay out of My Garden"!

I want that bumper sticker!

"Special Interest Groups" would most definitely include code enforcement, HOAs, native nazis and anyone else trying to tell us what we can't do in our own yards

[Hollywood Palms]

Of course the big question for me, in the heart of zone 10B, is :

When can I grow coconuts in my yard without heat coils?

I've got hibiscus blooming all year, coffee has set on my plants, avocados and citrus grow like weeds all over here. My bedding plants never die down (I whack impatiens to the ground and they come back in weeks), I've got a neighbor who is using anthirums as ground cover...

Should I try a coconut? Only way I'll do it is without smoke and mirrors.

I know-one track mind...

David