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Cocoid Hybrid Update 2010

Kailua_Krish

By Kailua_Krish
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
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I'm not sure about the zone since it has never been cold tested down to damage, but it should grow anywhere Syagrus will grow. I plan to cover mine next winter and keep frost off the fronds.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Has anyone tried crossing Lytocaryum with anything other than Syagrus?

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

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Has anyone tried crossing Lytocaryum with anything other than Syagrus?

-Krishna

Lytocaryum has been crossed with Syagrus using Syagrus as the mother plant. It is to early to tell the results as the hybrid seeds are not mature yet. It would be neat to cross Lyto with Butia, any kind of Butia, but particularly some of the dwarf Butias. I'm sure an attempt will be made soon. Photos have been posted on Palm Talk of Lyto X Syagrus hybrids from S. Calif, and I think Don Hodel described the Lyto X Syagrus cross in the S. Calif. palm publication some time back.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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  • 1 month later...
Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Hey everyone!

Just wondering how the growth on your hybrids has been this year, especially with California having an extremely cool summer and the east coast having a scorching one. All of mine have done well (minus the J x B that was eaten by a squirrel) and the B x J even has the beginnings of a pinnate leaf! There was no spotting or sulking of the J x S or B x Pj this summer even with the heat and humidity which shows these hybrids resilience in the southeast. Overall, even with all the growth on them they still dont look different enough for a photo to be appropriate. My B x S started producing spathes this year but the dont open and just start rotting on the tree, is this normal?

How about yours?

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Mark Heath Veteran

Mark Heath

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Posted

Hey everyone!

Just wondering how the growth on your hybrids has been this year, especially with California having an extremely cool summer and the east coast having a scorching one. All of mine have done well (minus the J x B that was eaten by a squirrel) and the B x J even has the beginnings of a pinnate leaf! There was no spotting or sulking of the J x S or B x Pj this summer even with the heat and humidity which shows these hybrids resilience in the southeast. Overall, even with all the growth on them they still dont look different enough for a photo to be appropriate. My B x S started producing spathes this year but the dont open and just start rotting on the tree, is this normal?

How about yours?

-Krishna

No, this is not normal. Maybe it is due to the bad winter we had. As long as your XButyagrus is growing and thriving i would'nt worry about it. All the hybrids here are doing great! Maybe your XButyagrus is terminating your spaths because it is the first time they have done this. No worries Krishna, either case scenerio your Mules will be just fine! Pics????

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

Posted
  • Author
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Hey everyone!

Just wondering how the growth on your hybrids has been this year, especially with California having an extremely cool summer and the east coast having a scorching one. All of mine have done well (minus the J x B that was eaten by a squirrel) and the B x J even has the beginnings of a pinnate leaf! There was no spotting or sulking of the J x S or B x Pj this summer even with the heat and humidity which shows these hybrids resilience in the southeast. Overall, even with all the growth on them they still dont look different enough for a photo to be appropriate. My B x S started producing spathes this year but the dont open and just start rotting on the tree, is this normal?

How about yours?

-Krishna

No, this is not normal. Maybe it is due to the bad winter we had. As long as your XButyagrus is growing and thriving i would'nt worry about it. All the hybrids here are doing great! Maybe your XButyagrus is terminating your spaths because it is the first time they have done this. No worries Krishna, either case scenerio your Mules will be just fine! Pics????

It is the first spathes on the tree so that is quite possible. They really dont look much different than the last set of pics I posted (at least to me) so I didnt take any while home, perhaps I should have :bemused: Next time I am at home I will post a set of my palms, Ive been a bit dissappointed with the time its taking the queens and such to regrow crowns, my CIDP still is putting out limp, floppy fronds :badday:

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
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Today is the big day. Patrick Schafer will be giving a talk on the Cocoid hybrids at the Palm Society meeting at my place today. He has created a new Cocoid hybrid that most would have thought impossible. Will he reveal it's identify today? It is up to him, as I have been sworn to stay mum as he's not sure that it's a true hybrid as the seedlings are to small to determine what they are.

I'm pressing him to make an announcement, as I think he should get credit for creating this new hybrid. If it turns out not to be a new hybrid, he can always make a disclaimer later. I've seen a couple of the seedlings, and they look like the real thing to me. This will be revolutionary. Stay tuned.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

Well...... I was in Blumenau yesterday...... and there in the middle of a roundabout was a young Attalea dubia with......... yes an open flower. Screeeeeeeech , car stopped and large portions of the flower entered into the boot of the car. What a stink, is there a smellier palm flower than this acaaaa.

Anyway, pollen now in my freezer ready to deposit on my most receptive Butia.

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

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Zeeth Grand Master

Zeeth

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Well...... I was in Blumenau yesterday...... and there in the middle of a roundabout was a young Attalea dubia with......... yes an open flower. Screeeeeeeech , car stopped and large portions of the flower entered into the boot of the car. What a stink, is there a smellier palm flower than this acaaaa.

Anyway, pollen now in my freezer ready to deposit on my most receptive Butia.

That's going to be a great palm! A. dubia is the hardiest in the genus, right?

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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  • Author
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Today is the big day. Patrick Schafer will be giving a talk on the Cocoid hybrids at the Palm Society meeting at my place today. He has created a new Cocoid hybrid that most would have thought impossible. Will he reveal it's identify today? It is up to him, as I have been sworn to stay mum as he's not sure that it's a true hybrid as the seedlings are to small to determine what they are.

I'm pressing him to make an announcement, as I think he should get credit for creating this new hybrid. If it turns out not to be a new hybrid, he can always make a disclaimer later. I've seen a couple of the seedlings, and they look like the real thing to me. This will be revolutionary. Stay tuned.

Dick

Make sure to let us know if he does reveal it!

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Mark Heath Veteran

Mark Heath

Posted
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Today is the big day. Patrick Schafer will be giving a talk on the Cocoid hybrids at the Palm Society meeting at my place today. He has created a new Cocoid hybrid that most would have thought impossible. Will he reveal it's identify today? It is up to him, as I have been sworn to stay mum as he's not sure that it's a true hybrid as the seedlings are to small to determine what they are.

I'm pressing him to make an announcement, as I think he should get credit for creating this new hybrid. If it turns out not to be a new hybrid, he can always make a disclaimer later. I've seen a couple of the seedlings, and they look like the real thing to me. This will be revolutionary. Stay tuned.

Dick

Dick, you are a tease!!! My guess,,,,,, Jubaea X Cocos!!! That is my guess!

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Im guessing its a Jubaeopsis hybrid ;)

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Mark Heath Veteran

Mark Heath

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Queen X Cocos??

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

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Nigel Mentor

Nigel

Posted
Posted

Jubaea x parajubaea

Resident in Bristol UK.

Webshop for hardy palms and hybrid seeds www.hardy-palms.co.uk

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Thats why I thought it was Jubaeopsis since Dick said that previously it was thought impossible :) I dont remember what the chromosome number was but I do remember that someone had postulated that the whole species was a population of clones with some weird ploidy, I dont remember the specifics though.

-Krishna

P.S. Merrill, I wanted to ask if gene imprinting has any impact on palm hybrids? I know it has significant effects in animals but am unsure about plants.

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

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Im guessing its a Jubaeopsis hybrid ;)

-Krishna

Patrick finally uttered the magic word during his presentation at the PS meeting at my place. "JUBAEOPSIS. He believes he has successfully crossed Syagrus R with Jubaeopsis. The seedlings are small so it's hard to determine if they are the real thing.

He also got seed and fruit to form on Butia X Jubaeopsis. After a year with no germination he cut some of the Butia hybrid seeds open and they were all hollow. This year he has tried the cross on Butia yata and it looks like a good seed set, but only time will tell. He has also gotten a few fruit to grow on a Jubaea using Jubaeopsis pollen, but again they are not ripe yet.

Outside of Pheonix which are widely distributed around the globe and readily cross with each other, a Jubaeopsis cross would probably be a first for two species from different continents to cross.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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gilles06 Experienced

gilles06

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that sounds like a great new! :drool:

07690.gif

elevation 328 feet

distance from mediteranean sea 1,1 mile

lowest t° 2009/2010 : 27F

lowest t° 2008/2009 : 33F

lowest t° 2007/2008 : 32F

lowest t° 2006/2007 : 35F

lowest t° 2005/2006 : 27F

lowest t° 2004/2005 : 25F

Historical lowest t° 1985 : 18F

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edbrown_III Grand Master

edbrown_III

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Merrill,

the chromosome number is something unusual like a 100--- Robertson article in Principes 70's

every thing else with cocosoids is 16-- I have tried to germinate Jubeaopsis 3 x 1986: 3/100, 1991: 6/300 and 2001: 0/50.

Bill Dickensen had a technique where he excised the embryo and planted sterilly. I tried this in 91' with some of the 300 but they all rotted. I am not that good with seeds tho.

I have one lone Jubeopsis living in my yard from all the efforts. 24 years old 9/5/2010. It is a zone 10 plant in zone 9 --- I am hoping to get some pollen in the future but that's a long shot.

I am hoping this pans out for Patrick as this is quite a test of perserverance and technique.

Best regards

Ed

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Im guessing its a Jubaeopsis hybrid ;)

-Krishna

Patrick finally uttered the magic word during his presentation at the PS meeting at my place. "JUBAEOPSIS. He believes he has successfully crossed Syagrus R with Jubaeopsis. The seedlings are small so it's hard to determine if they are the real thing.

He also got seed and fruit to form on Butia X Jubaeopsis. After a year with no germination he cut some of the Butia hybrid seeds open and they were all hollow. This year he has tried the cross on Butia yata and it looks like a good seed set, but only time will tell. He has also gotten a few fruit to grow on a Jubaea using Jubaeopsis pollen, but again they are not ripe yet.

Outside of Pheonix which are widely distributed around the globe and readily cross with each other, a Jubaeopsis cross would probably be a first for two species from different continents to cross.

Dick

Yes! I guessed correctly! :)

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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merrillwx Enthusiast

merrillwx

Posted
Posted (edited)

You guys have my very best wishes on a Jubaeopsis hybrid, altho I think the odds are very poor! As I remember, Arikury may have either 15 or 16 pairs!

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited by merrillwx
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Mark Heath Veteran

Mark Heath

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Krishna, you ham!! No need to show off!!! :D Good guess, i was'nt thinking Jubaeopsis.

Would be cool for sure. I hope it pans out!!

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

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PalmGuyWC Grand Master

PalmGuyWC

Posted
Posted

Krishna, you ham!! No need to show off!!! :D Good guess, i was'nt thinking Jubaeopsis.

Would be cool for sure. I hope it pans out!!

Mark,

Don't feel bad about not thinking Jubaeopsis, as no one has because of the high chromosome count. My own opinion is that Jubaeopsis is the most Coconut looking palm even if it does cluster. It is also much more cold hardy than a Coconut. My own feeling is that a Butia X Jubaeopsis would the ultimate Cocoid hybrid, or perhaps with Jubaea which would be really stretching it.

Even a little early to be sure but, it appears that Patrick has crossed Syagrus with Jubaeopsis. This seems a more unlikely cross than with Butia. Only time and some growth of the seedlings will tell.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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Kailua_Krish Veteran

Kailua_Krish

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Krishna, you ham!! No need to show off!!! :D Good guess, i was'nt thinking Jubaeopsis.

Would be cool for sure. I hope it pans out!!

Haha, I was stressed to the max yesterday because I was about to take a genetics exam, hopefully I was a correct on the test guesses as I was about the palms :)

I am still interested in knowing if anyone has any ideas about epigenetics (ex. DNA methylation) and if it has effects on hybrid palms.

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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  • 1 year later...
Zeeth Grand Master

Zeeth

Posted
Posted

Im guessing its a Jubaeopsis hybrid wink.gif

-Krishna

Patrick finally uttered the magic word during his presentation at the PS meeting at my place. "JUBAEOPSIS. He believes he has successfully crossed Syagrus R with Jubaeopsis. The seedlings are small so it's hard to determine if they are the real thing.

He also got seed and fruit to form on Butia X Jubaeopsis. After a year with no germination he cut some of the Butia hybrid seeds open and they were all hollow. This year he has tried the cross on Butia yata and it looks like a good seed set, but only time will tell. He has also gotten a few fruit to grow on a Jubaea using Jubaeopsis pollen, but again they are not ripe yet.

Outside of Pheonix which are widely distributed around the globe and readily cross with each other, a Jubaeopsis cross would probably be a first for two species from different continents to cross.

Dick

Bump

Do any of the Jubaeopsis hybrids still seem to be hybrids?

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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Alicehunter2000 Grand Master

Alicehunter2000

Posted
Posted

Pictures are always welcome. Can't get enough of hybrid pics. Who has some more pics of SxJ hybrids and JxS? And is anyone selling these?

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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