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Zone maps


Jimbean

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HardinessZones-1.jpg

This map is far too conservative for North Texas. DFW is a zone 8a/b, trending 8b over last 25 yrs. This map shows them zone 7 (not a chance). Even in this brutal winter, DFW did not drop below low to mid teens. You have areas along the red river as zone 7a, that is far too cold for this area. They do not drop anywhere near 0-5F a vast, vast majority of winters. I know I used to live there. When I lived in Wichita falls for 5-6 years, we never had a zone 7a winter. Usually the low was in the teens (8a, 10-15F).

Thanks for the info :), I don't know much about North/Central Texas.

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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South TX looks correct though. I would add 1-2 more counties in 10a in the RGV.

Maybe Hidalgo and Willacy..

-Jonathan

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

Edited by Jimbean

Brevard County, Fl

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

I wouldn't say S.Texas is "temperate", just look at the latitude.

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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*Sigh* I bet I'm the only one with a state lower than zone 6 on this page.

WI.gif

I'm 5B in Waukesha Cty. SE Wisconsin.

  • Upvote 1

Milwaukee, WI to Ocala, FL

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

I wouldn't say S.Texas is "temperate", just look at the latitude.

I did not say that south Texas was temperate. I have not been to south Texas, but I would guess that it is at least abundant zone 9 there.

Brevard County, Fl

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My impression of Texas:

texas.jpg

The red coloring is the 10A

Edited by Jimbean

Brevard County, Fl

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main-florida-map.bmpHere is a map I put together today, bearing in mind that individual years have nothing to do with the USDA zone map, which represents an average of many years for a given area. Sorry, I know it's not professional looking, what does everybody think?
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My impression of Texas:

texas.jpg

The red coloring is the 10A

Your off. San Antonio is zone 9a long term, whether you want to look at the last 30 year average, 50 yr, or 100 year avgs. Every map created showed SA as a 9a except the 1990 map, which showed 8b, which included some of the coldest winters the past century. If this give you any indication, there are skydusting Washintonia Hybrids (many very robusta-ish) and CIDPs in central SA over 50+ years old. Can that happen in a zone 8b??? Move your lines about 75 miles to the NW and you would be almost dead on.

Edited by syersj
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Sorry, I meant to have the graphic actually show up on my post rather than having to click to see it...

That looks like a good map for averages. Maybe we can have a average like yours and a conservative like mine as both some what valid.

Brevard County, Fl

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Your off.

I figured I would be.

Well, it's not that bad actually. It's actually pretty close, just a little bit too conservative. The 9a line is about 75mi NW of where you have it. Draw a line from Del Rio to San Antonio. At San Antonio, start veering slightly NE to north of Houston. Somewhere around Conroe to College Station make a bee line over to the Lousiana border. Also the 9b area would cover just a little bit more ground possibly including Laredo. 10a would be limited to portions of the RGV

Edited by syersj
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Sorry, I meant to have the graphic actually show up on my post rather than having to click to see it...

William,

That's getting close. In Tallahasse, the city center and extending northward a bit are in 9a. The 8b line hugs the Georgia border a little further east. Then just pretty it up so that all the zones, like 10a, stand out more.

Edited by floridagrower

Jeff

North Florida

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Jimbean, I came up with it off the top of my head by finding a Florida map and then pulling it up with "paint" on the computer. I have been fascinated with weather and climatology for a long time, so this map is based on previous research, and observations by myself and others. Flolidagrower, for some reason my paint computer program does not seem to be working properly since I selected all bright, noticable colors, but they showed up muted and greyed out for some reason. I will fix it up a bit then re-post it, could anybody tell me how to post the graphic itself instead of just a link to it? Thanks.

-Michael

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My impression of Texas:

texas.jpg

The red coloring is the 10A

Your off. San Antonio is zone 9a long term, whether you want to look at the last 30 year average, 50 yr, or 100 year avgs. Every map created showed SA as a 9a except the 1990 map, which showed 8b, which included some of the coldest winters the past century. If this give you any indication, there are skydusting Washintonia Hybrids (many very robusta-ish) and CIDPs in central SA over 50+ years old. Can that happen in a zone 8b??? Move your lines about 75 miles to the NW and you would be almost dead on.

I think Galveston should be included in 9b.

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Jimbean, I came up with it off the top of my head by finding a Florida map and then pulling it up with "paint" on the computer. I have been fascinated with weather and climatology for a long time, so this map is based on previous research, and observations by myself and others. Flolidagrower, for some reason my paint computer program does not seem to be working properly since I selected all bright, noticable colors, but they showed up muted and greyed out for some reason. I will fix it up a bit then re-post it, could anybody tell me how to post the graphic itself instead of just a link to it? Thanks.

-Michael

I used paint too lol..I just saved it and uploaded it through photobucket.

-Jonathan

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

Wow, I sure sounded a little snarky there Jim. Sorry, I didn't mean it like that!! I guess I feel like most of St Pete is zone 9b simply because we regularly (every 6-7 years) hit the upper 20's for one night so all the zone 10a stuff gets badly burned and looks terrible for a good portion of the summer. During that 5-6 year period without a freeze St Pete does appear to be zone 10a because of all the zone 10a palms that are growing here. But right now, St Pete looks very sad because all those 10a palms look awful. I've been through this many times, but it never gets easier to look at.

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

Wow, I sure sounded a little snarky there Jim. Sorry, I didn't mean it like that!! I guess I feel like most of St Pete is zone 9b simply because we regularly (every 6-7 years) hit the upper 20's for one night so all the zone 10a stuff gets badly burned and looks terrible for a good portion of the summer. During that 5-6 year period without a freeze St Pete does appear to be zone 10a because of all the zone 10a palms that are growing here. But right now, St Pete looks very sad because all those 10a palms look awful. I've been through this many times, but it never gets easier to look at.

Are there any 30+ year old Royals there? If so, where are they?

Brevard County, Fl

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Let's remember that the zone maps are based on the AVERAGE winter low over an extended period of time (preferably 30 or more years) and NOT one ot 2 time severe winter outbreaks (IE: St Pete dropping into the 20s once or twice a decade). Fact is, St Pete AVERAGES a winter low at least 30F, and therefore, by definition is a zone 10a. That doesn't mean there won't be an occasional 9b or even 9a winter. On the other hand some winters might be 10b. It all averages out long term. The zone you are in is simply you're average low over the last 30, 50, or 100 years. And without looking up any stats, I would guess St Pete has averaged at least 30F over the last 50 yrs.

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How exactly do they deterimine what zone you are in? I'd say that 90% of St Pete got into the upper 20's this winter which is definitely zone 9b. We freeze in the upper 20's without fail at least every 6-7 years. There is a very small sliver of St Pete (the southeast corner along tampa bay and of course the barrier islands) that are 1-2 degrees warmer during the cold snaps then the rest of St Pete but other than that, the rest of St Pete does get into the upper 20's every 6-7 years. I've lived here 20 years. We've hit the upper 20's for one night in each of the following years: 1989, 1996, 2003, 2010. Is the zone map saying that if 5 out of 6 years are zone 10a years, then you live in zone 10a?

My maps are not perfect nor are they scientific. I do not do my maps based on averages. I really should give you my criteria for zone classification, which I believe are different in subtropical climates than they are in temperate climates (this is why I am currently skeptical of the Texas maps). It would be better if I had the time, I should post pictures of what each zone looks like, as well as temperatures in freeze situations across Florida.

Let me makes this clear! As a rule for my maps, you can grow, and will see plants that are one zone away in any given zone most of the time, possibly decades at a time. So, if you are in the yellow (9B), you can grow 10A plants, and generally have 10A winters there.

I don't understand, why are you skeptical of TX maps. They are really no different than FL maps. The 10a area of S TX can grow the same things that the Central FL corridor can grow, perhaps more actually. There are large royals quite common in the RGV (well not as common as the millions of washingtonia robustas everywhere of course). But nothing will ever replace the Washingtonia Robusta as the state tree of deep South Texas.

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Let's remember that the zone maps are based on the AVERAGE winter low over an extended period of time (preferably 30 or more years) and NOT one ot 2 time severe winter outbreaks (IE: St Pete dropping into the 20s once or twice a decade). Fact is, St Pete AVERAGES a winter low at least 30F, and therefore, by definition is a zone 10a. That doesn't mean there won't be an occasional 9b or even 9a winter. On the other hand some winters might be 10b. It all averages out long term. The zone you are in is simply you're average low over the last 30, 50, or 100 years. And without looking up any stats, I would guess St Pete has averaged at least 30F over the last 50 yrs.

yes, traditionally that is how zone maps are done. This works well for temperate and tropical climates, but is absolutely terrible for subtropical climates.

What I did in Florida is this: I took several measures into account, including other zone maps and climate data around Florida, ADAS maps over the last few years for every cold event, and type of species and their size.

Brevard County, Fl

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*Sigh* I bet I'm the only one with a state lower than zone 6 on this page.

WI.gif

I'm 5B in Waukesha Cty. SE Wisconsin.

Ewps... forgot to put in the key

Light orange: 3A (yikes!)

Dark orange: 3B (yikes!)

Light Purple: 4A (little yikes)

Dark purple 4B (still cold there)

Light Green: 5A (getting warmer, for WI terms)

Dark green 5b (thats me, and marginal for S. minor!!)

Milwaukee, WI to Ocala, FL

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  • 1 month later...

Maps in Winter (june, july, august)

minimum absolute is very rare, 0-4 days by year

post-2078-12749301438613_thumb.png

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Tampa Bay is so influenced by water, that maps might need specific detailed locations. I live about a mile from the Gulf in SW pasco yet teach near the Hernando Co line, which is 15 miles to my north and east - inland. Whole Queens and Washingtons were browned and some may not recover. Yet, I have Queens untouched and a few barely browned from this winter. I recorded 27F as the absolute low, and the only palms and plants not recovering are in the open areas. ANYTHING near canopy has recovered fine, even some of the most tender Bromeliads. I believe what did not recover was due to record rainfall AND the cold. March saw over 8" yet was consistently in the 60's, February likewise. Teachers who live in Hernando or far NE Pasco recorded upper teens, and not just a dip. I am sure So Texas is influenced likewise, as is SW Florida and SE Florida....or anything near a large lake. But that said, I NEVER want to see a winter like this again. btw NO RAIN measured in May other than a few light light showers. My rain gauge was moist at best without accumulation, yet thunder has occurred on 6 out of the last 8 days! Bring on the summer rainy season - PLEASE~ :(

Begonias are my thing. I've been growing and selling them for three decades, nearly two in Tampa Bay. NPR is an bhour N of St Pete, coast

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