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Trachycarpus princeps -green (Nova)


garrytsen

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T.princeps -green (Nova) is not new to all ,but very few people see how they look like growing in the habitat and are curious about how theirs will look like when older. Take a look at the photos taken in the habitat.

Trachycarpus princeps-Green (Nova) were sold around the world years ago and are still being sold as T.princeps by some as far as I know .But many growing results show that they are different from T.princeps by showing no or very little white powder on the underside of the leaves and also from T.fortunei by exhibiting fast growing habits.The seedling grows faster than regular T. fortunei and has wider and longer leafblades.It is probably the fastest growing Trachycarpus variety. The seedlings stand more erect and have fewer, narrower and more evenly divided leaflets as opposed to wider and irregular leaflets in T.fortunei seedlings with leaves spreading around.

The similarity T.princeps-green share with T.princeps is that the split leaflets are narrower forming about 30 degrees angle when they start to have split leaves whereas T.fortunei develop much wider leaves of 180 degree across.

I personally think that they do look elegant as the adult palm with larger leaves on a somewhat thinner trunk are more tropical and exotic looking.

The largest palm in the habitat I saw is 4-5 meters with a slightly thinner trunk of 15-20cm in diameter.The seedlings divide leaflets within 1.5 year and develop hair earlier than T. fortunei.The leaves are about 80-100cm, bit of erecter than that of T. fortunei and petiole length range 1-1.2m.

Trachycarpus princeps grows on the cliff of 1500-2100 m in altitude whereas T.princeps-green is of the same altitude or bit of lower than this. I think it is possible that T.princeps -green is less cold hardy than its counterpart. But still they should be cold hardy somewhere near that of T.fortunei I think.

Some say they are less hardy than T.fortunei. From the articles and posting I read about, there is disagreement on this from various people .

It is interesting to hear some more opinions and experiences.

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Garry, i have definately found this less hardy than fortunei of a similar size, in fact all nova/green princeps left out in pots over the last few years have spear pulled, but all recovered very quickly. The leaves also seem to be very fragile and bend easily in my windy garden giving a very 'droopy' look.

Interesting palms though, and looking at your pictures should be a nice addition to the garden. :)

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Thanks a lot Garry.That's really useful infos + photos. I have both nova and "real one" growing here in Bordeaux, France, doing just fine, I'll send photos if I can ever understand how to...!

By the way, how do you get your IPS Member logo to appear on your page under your avatar...?

Have a nice day... in China.

Cheers

Jonimic

Jonimic

Bordeaux, France

Min. temps : -12°C (observed in the garden in 2007)

Max. temps : +42°C (observed in the summer of 2003)

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Thanks a lot Garry.That's really useful infos + photos. I have both nova and "real one" growing here in Bordeaux, France, doing just fine, I'll send photos if I can ever understand how to...!

By the way, how do you get your IPS Member logo to appear on your page under your avatar...?

Have a nice day... in China.

Cheers

Jonimic

Jonimic,

You may make those changes in the user control panel.

Thank you Vic for sharing your experience. Regarding the cold hardiness, there is disagreement from various people.

Some say it is definitely less frost resistant than T.fortunei or T.princeps whereas others say they are the same hardy or better than T.fortunei. It is confusing.

From what I read, there is a Dutch guy said he went through -23C if I understand correctly at cemunnos.nl .A French friend said his T.princeps-green of 20cm trunk survived the cold spell of 2008 and 2009 in France .He put it at fousdepalmiers.fr forum "Very Interesting the German experience up to -20° !

For my TRACHYCARPUS Sp Nova has suffered minimum a month as freezing

the maximum recorded was -18.6 °. All of my Trachycarpus Fortunei very close to this Nova are all died !

For my Trachycarpus Sp Nova, they grow very fast"

It is contradictory and confusing.

You guys are welcome to share your own growing experience.

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  • 13 years later...

I was looking around palmtalk to see if this palm has been discussed before and it has, but very poorley. Even this thread seems to be dead. I don't know why but I think it's a very interesting variety of Trachycarpus and it's also crazy that it's still not officially identified and still sometimes sold as T. princeps 'green'. Despite planting palms and especially Trachys for such a long time I only came across 'nova' a couple of years ago. I never heard about it before or at least I can't remember. So I got one and because I immediately loved it I got me a T. princeps x nova as well. They're both still small and look very similar. 'Nova' is definitely the fastest Trachy and it has gone through it's first cold blast in December 2022 with several days of freezing temperautes and lows down to -5/-6°C and 2 hours of -8°C. Not showing any damage even weeks after, Spear is strong. Same with the T. princeps x nova hybrid.

Trachycarpus sp 'nova':
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Trachycarpus princeps x sp. 'nova'
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xnova2.thumb.PNG.22b97c472c79400f48fe26d47e087165.PNG

xnova3.PNG.314b82a1952bb7720f87f7f102f482a7.PNG

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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I have one .  Definitely less cold hardy than regular fortunei.  First year it spear pulled at 25F and last year lots of damage to newest fronds and spear.  This year I actually protected it during our cold spell, so it still looks good.

On 12/9/2009 at 6:08 PM, garrytsen said:

The similarity T.princeps-green share with T.princeps is that the split leaflets are narrower forming about 30 degrees angle when they start to have split leaves whereas T.fortunei develop much wider leaves of 180 degree across.

This is what I have observed with their manner of growth.   However I don't notice any difference in speed of growth versus regular fortunei up to this point.  Mine is about 1.5m in height.  It looks about the same size as yours. 

Edited by Chester B
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14 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I have one .  Definitely less cold hardy than regular fortunei.  First year it spear pulled at 25F and last year lots of damage to newest fronds and spear.  This year I actually protected it during our cold spell, so it still looks good.

This is what I have observed with their manner of growth.   However I don't notice any difference in speed of growth versus regular fortunei up to this point.  Mine is about 1.5m in height.  It looks about the same size as yours. 

That sounds to me what happend to my small P. takils. On 'nova' I haven't had any damages yet. Maybe they vary a lot or what is sold as 'nova' isn't always 'nova'? But nice to hear some other experiences. I also wonder why it isn't so popular yet. If they are supposed to be so fast growing and so hardy there should be even a commercial interest in selling them in masses.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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21 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

I also wonder why it isn't so popular yet. If they are supposed to be so fast growing and so hardy there should be even a commercial interest in selling them in masses.

Any Trachycarpus other than fortunei and wagnerianus are extremely rare in North America.  Not much of a demand for them.

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19 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Any Trachycarpus other than fortunei and wagnerianus are extremely rare in North America.  Not much of a demand for them.

Like I always say Trachycarpus is to the US and Canada what Sabals are to us in Europe. But 'nova' isn't very popular or accsessible here either, compared to other Trachys at least. I was trying to imply that they might not be as fast or hardy as generally claimed or at least they haven't proved enough to be interesting to nurseries.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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I have 4 "Nova", planted in sites from nearly full sun to heavy shade.  The largest are now maybe 5ft overall height and starting to trunk.

They definitely seem to grow faster than a standard fortunei at the smaller sizes before they are trunking.   Seedling "Nova" got bigger and went vertical faster than a typical windmill.  I have seed grown fortunei that are at least twice as old as the "Nova" that are about the same size.   For me, a standard windmill puts on height pretty fast once they start going vertical. So, I'm not sure the "Nova" will continue to outpace them.  TBD

Nova seem to like more sun than a fortunei?  They seem to stay very green with longer petioles in full sun, while my standard windmill seems to get a bit ratty and more compact in full sun.

Also the shade planted "Nova" is pretty slow.  They seem to want/need more sun?

I can't really seem to see any major significant differences in general appearance between my Novas and the variations seen among standard windmills in my yard.  Maybe this will become apparent once they are older and have a trunk?    

I'm in Z8a, so not really testing the limits of hardiness.  Nova and fortunei both spear pulled and fully recovered when small at temps below 20f.  This seems to stop once they start going vertical.

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Here is my Trachycarpus princeps . Bought as a square liner from Kevin weaver probably 5 years ago . Little ratty right now from our high cold winds but over all looks great . This is the only Trachycarpus I have 

image.jpg

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On 1/25/2023 at 8:55 PM, Joe NC said:

I have 4 "Nova", planted in sites from nearly full sun to heavy shade.  The largest are now maybe 5ft overall height and starting to trunk.

They definitely seem to grow faster than a standard fortunei at the smaller sizes before they are trunking.   Seedling "Nova" got bigger and went vertical faster than a typical windmill.  I have seed grown fortunei that are at least twice as old as the "Nova" that are about the same size.   For me, a standard windmill puts on height pretty fast once they start going vertical. So, I'm not sure the "Nova" will continue to outpace them.  TBD

Nova seem to like more sun than a fortunei?  They seem to stay very green with longer petioles in full sun, while my standard windmill seems to get a bit ratty and more compact in full sun.

Also the shade planted "Nova" is pretty slow.  They seem to want/need more sun?

I can't really seem to see any major significant differences in general appearance between my Novas and the variations seen among standard windmills in my yard.  Maybe this will become apparent once they are older and have a trunk?    

I'm in Z8a, so not really testing the limits of hardiness.  Nova and fortunei both spear pulled and fully recovered when small at temps below 20f.  This seems to stop once they start going vertical.

As they have white undersides it's possible that they are used to more sun and do need that. I find them very easy to distinguish from any T. fortunei variety I've seen so far. But even T. fortunei can sometimes have a lot of white on the undersides of the fronds. That's probably why some consider them as a T. fortunei variant.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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On 1/25/2023 at 10:46 PM, JubaeaMan138 said:

Here is my Trachycarpus princeps . Bought as a square liner from Kevin weaver probably 5 years ago . Little ratty right now from our high cold winds but over all looks great . This is the only Trachycarpus I have 

image.jpg

Most likely the best Trachycarpus for sunny and especially dry spots and areas. They can look very beautiful and can remind one of a Brahea.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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6 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

Most likely the best Trachycarpus for sunny and especially dry spots and areas. They can look very beautiful and can remind one of a Brahea.

Almost all Trachycarpus subspecies come from areas with high rainfall. I don't think drought tolerant Trachys exist.

Last summer (2022) many of the unirrigated looked terrible in Europe while Chamaerops Humilis looked flawless.

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1 minute ago, Zeni said:

Almost all Trachycarpus subspecies come from areas with high rainfall. I don't think drought tolerant Trachys exist.

Last summer (2022) many of the unirrigated looked terrible in Europe while Chamaerops Humilis looked flawless.

From my own experience T. princeps and T. takil seem to be quite good with their drought tolerance. Especially T. princeps. I have mine planted on slopes in full sun and they don't show any stress signs even without irrigation. T. fortuneis seem to dislike drought a lot.

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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23 minutes ago, Hortulanus said:

From my own experience T. princeps and T. takil seem to be quite good with their drought tolerance. Especially T. princeps. I have mine planted on slopes in full sun and they don't show any stress signs even without irrigation. T. fortuneis seem to dislike drought a lot.

Yeah, you are probably right. I just looked up rainfall statistics for Western and Northwestern Yunnan province in China and in that area it can get as low as 500 mm annual rainfall which is almost semi-arid, but not quite. Also considering Princeps grows on rocky cliffs you have a point.

Fortunei apparently comes from Wuhan (lol) where the annual rainfall is 1,100 to 1,300 mm ! Quite a lot.

I noticed Pacific Northwest folks in high rainfall areas grow the best Trachys in the Western world. In Western Europe now with these dry summers we could face trouble with Fortunei, especially in unirrigated public planting situations.

Edited by Zeni
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26 minutes ago, Zeni said:

Yeah, you are probably right. I just looked up rainfall statistics for Western and Northwestern Yunnan province in China and in that area it can get as low as 500 mm annual rainfall which is almost semi-arid, but not quite. Also considering Princeps grows on rocky cliffs you have a point.

Fortunei apparently comes from Wuhan (lol) where the annual rainfall is 1,100 to 1,300 mm ! Quite a lot.

I noticed Pacific Northwest folks in high rainfall areas grow the best Trachys in the Western world. In Western Europe now with these dry summers we could face trouble with Fortunei, especially in unirrigated public planting situations.

Yes at least when it comes to the looks. T. fortuneis in the Mediterranean or Southern California always look a bit wimpy. The seem to do the best in the climate that we used to have here in Western Europe up until recently. What I found interesting is that T. takil seems to be very drought but also very swamp tolerant. But not so cold tolerant. They're often described as the hardiest Trachycarpus but they are deffintely not, at least when young. In the cold snap of December they fared worse than Phoenix palms.

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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I am hoping both princeps and nova will have hardiness at least comparable to Chamaerops - I have a seedling of each I hope to plant eventually, but I am lazy and don't want to have to protect them in winter.  I prefer to grow things that are fully hardy for my area rather than experiment with zone pushing (though you could argue I have inadvertently done that with a couple of my palms).

It is interesting how much variety in form the normal T. fortunei shows in different environments.  I agree with previous comments, they look phenomenal in the US Pacific Northwest and here in the UK.  In these humid environments, with ample rainfall and low-moderate sunshine hours, they tend to hold a great number of fronds, forming very full crowns.  In Ticino (Switzerland) and the Italian lakes they also get lots of rainfall but much more sun, and they usually have much smaller crowns, like a little tuft of leaves right at the top.  However you couldn't claim they dislike it, they have naturalised and spread in the forests.

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Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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15 hours ago, Ryland said:

I am hoping both princeps and nova will have hardiness at least comparable to Chamaerops

I would say they are based on my experience.

 

I do agree with others that Princeps can handle less water than fortunei.

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  • 1 month later...

This is the palm I asked my friends in Yunnan, China to find. Can someone help me identify if this is Trachycarpus princeps?

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75A3DB3E-6B88-4029-9870-EE4723F86453.png

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