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Freeze-Pruf Big Disappointment


Jim in Los Altos

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I sprayed the new product that everyone's been talking about, Freeze-Pruf, thoroughly all over and under my marginal palms and ornamentals a couple of days before last night's freeze with high hopes of 5 to 9 degrees increased cold hardiness that the product's makers claim. Boy, was I disappointed.

My low was 28.6 in the coldest part of my yard. I sprayed the product on hundreds of plants. Results...none. My bananas melted, the heliconias bronzed, cannas no more, fuschias fizzled, and my Roystonea borinquena which has endured year after year frosts with no damage has little brownish speckles all over its lower fronds now. The product almost seems to have made my plants MORE sensitive to the cold.

Happily, the vast majority of my yard looks normal after last night's freeze but that's because 28.6F is not cold enough to do harm to it for the most part. Bananas and heliconias grow back quickly in the spring.

Has anyone else tried the product with any success?

  • Upvote 1

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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thanks for the info Jim. I am both sorry and surprised that it was such a failure. According to all the info that was sent out (including the video of that coleus surviving freezing temps-although I don't think he said for how long the coleus was exposed to those temps), you would have thought that the bananas and cannas would have fared better. In this case, perhaps my procrastination in buying it will be for the best. I am interested to hear how other peoples plants do with it.

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Thanks Jim...saved me some time and money. Although I was leaning towards not trying it mainly because I was so disapointed with "Cloud cover"years ago. Back we go to the basic principles of the movement and settling of warm and cold air.

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

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I have seen numerous reports that this product does not protect bananas.

I'll stick with lights and frost blankets for now.

Hopefully genetically modified palms and bananas will be created soon. That, I would pay for!

Adam 

 

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Frankly, I am not surprised that early results have not brought any success.

The delays in release, the outrageous claims (as far as I could see), and the high price (if its more expensive, it must be good) made me more and more suspicious.

I am, however, looking for some positive results.

Expensive lesson for some, though.

It must be why I am not an early adopter to most products.

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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When did you apply it (how long before the freezing temps) and what was the temperature when you applied it?

Ron

Wellington, Florida

Zone 11 in my mind

Zone 10a 9a in reality

13miles West of the Atlantic in Palm Beach County

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When did you apply it (how long before the freezing temps) and what was the temperature when you applied it?

Jim, sad to hear you experience was not good. I thought about ordering some too, but decided to wait for more experiences to be weighed in. We need to hear from others, and details like "rozpalm" is asking before passing judgement on this product. There are so many variables to consider, and the product never promised to work miracles, just to give a very slight incremental edge. I am anxious to hear from others like Big Tex, although his experience might have been to severe for Freez Pruf to help.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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When did you apply it (how long before the freezing temps) and what was the temperature when you applied it?

rozpalm, I applied the material with a professional style sprayer 48 hours before the freezing temperatures and at a temperature of 52F. There was no wind and I thoroughly wetted tops and bottoms of the leaves as well as all stems until it was dripping off. The product also leaves ugly whitish spotting all over the leaves when it dries.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Hi Jim,

Good to see you again. It is sad how bad weather brings us back to action. Thanks for the comments on this product.

Robert

Madera, CA (central San Joaquin valley)

9A

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When did you apply it (how long before the freezing temps) and what was the temperature when you applied it?

rozpalm, I applied the material with a professional style sprayer 48 hours before the freezing temperatures and at a temperature of 52F. There was no wind and I thoroughly wetted tops and bottoms of the leaves as well as all stems until it was dripping off. The product also leaves ugly whitish spotting all over the leaves when it dries.

Jim you applied the product within the parameters of the manufacturer's recommendations, but I wonder if they're being overly optimistic about the ability of the plant to quickly absorb the product and spread it throughout its tissues. I ordered Freezepruf, but didn't receive it in time to use it before the deep freeze we just experienced in Northern California. Given this product is systemic (not topical) I was suspicious when instructions said it could be applied at 50F, eight hours before a freeze. Tropical plants (especially bananas) have very little metabolic activity at that temp. If the product was applied at 70F, and had say 5 days to absorb, the results might be different. Unlike Florida, Nor Cal does not usually get 70F five days before a freeze. Maybe if it had 10 days to absorb at temps in the high 50s it would be effective. Look forward to hearing more real life experiences!

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That product is obviusly bogus. Time will show.

island Vis, adriatic sea, Croatia. Zone 9b/10a

Temperature low last winter: -0.9°C/30.4 F

Temperature low this winter: -0.3°C/31.5 F

-Creating my own little palm heaven-

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Here are the results of my Freeze-Pruff tests. Its been a week now since we hit 26 degrees and had snow. My determination is that FreezePruff does not at all live up to its claims (actually improves plants' natural cold tolerance up to 9.4 degrees Fahrenheit, depending on the variety of plant). Obviously tropical plants and palms do not fall under this description. As directed I sprayed the product on when the temps were above 50 and also more than 12 hours from the cold.

My mangos are completely defoliated now. All were sprayed with FreezePruff. All of my citrics were also sprayed and are 75% defoliated. The Peanut butter tree is now completely defoliated, sprayed with Freezeproof as well. Both of my Jacarandas were also sprayed and probably completely dead. Both are defoliated and sap is leaking from the trunks.

My Bismarck is fine but was fine the last time it hit 26 with no Freezepruff. In all, everything that was sprayed is heavily damaged.

My Foxtail looks like it will live (so far). However it is 75% defoliated. It was only protected with a frost cloth at the bottom and a flood light.

The Majesty and Triangle Palm were both sprayed but were also wrapped in frost cloth and a 40w bulb hung in the middle, they are both totally undamaged.

All of my papayas were protected with TIKKI torches and while they are defoliated, they are very much alive and the trunks undamaged. All of my hibiscus were treated with Anti-Stress 2000 and completely defoliated.

I believe now that both FreezePruff and Anti-Stress 2000 are completely useless. Next year I will not waste another penny on either product.

Jim you applied the product within the parameters of the manufacturer's recommendations, but I wonder if they're being overly optimistic about the ability of the plant to quickly absorb the product and spread it throughout its tissues. I ordered Freezepruf, but didn't receive it in time to use it before the deep freeze we just experienced in Northern California. Given this product is systemic (not topical) I was suspicious when instructions said it could be applied at 50F, eight hours before a freeze. Tropical plants (especially bananas) have very little metabolic activity at that temp. If the product was applied at 70F, and had say 5 days to absorb, the results might be different. Unlike Florida, Nor Cal does not usually get 70F five days before a freeze. Maybe if it had 10 days to absorb at temps in the high 50s it would be effective. Look forward to hearing more real life experiences!

I actually applied the product when we had temperatures in the 70's + I did it about two weeks before the unexpected lows we had. I had done this just to protect the plants from any unexpected frosts we can get in early December. It certainly had ample time to absorb. Like someone else mentioned, most of the product ran off and left unsightly white spots and streaks on the leaves. Not that this matters now, because the leaves are dead and will fall off soon. As far as I am concerned this product is a complete waste of money. I had the same damage two years back when we hit 26 and I had never heard of FreezePruff. The only difference is we have 4 times the plants and 4 times the damage.

Edited by Big Tex

Houston, Texas

29.8649°N - 95.6521°W

Elevation 114.8 ft

Sunset zone 28

USDA zone 9a

Average maximum high temperature 93.60 F

Average maximum low temperature 45.20 F

The annual average precipitation is 53.34 Inches

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Well, with all the negative experiences with Freeze-Pruf stated here, it appears my concern (that this product wasn't advertised to protect a palm's growth bud and trunk -- only foliage) was valid.

Re: My numerous posts at : http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=14858

Heck, it appears this product can't even protect foilage, let alone the internals of a palm.

I think someone here that has been in email touch with Dr. Franko (discussing said product), should contact him and give him a link to these discussion (and disappointing results) threads.

Once word gets around I suspect orders for this product will diminish greatly.

I trust that those of you that experienced disappointing failure with this product, applied said product as per label directions. Further, that so many of you experienced disappointing results within the temperature ranges stated for this product, would indicate to me the lack of effectiveness of said product.

Your disappointing results are good enough for me. I will be saving my money (not buying Freeze-Pruf) for other things, such as palm fertilzer, etc.

Mad about palms

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Both of my Jacarandas were also sprayed and probably completely dead. Both are defoliated and sap is leaking from the trunks.

Tex, don't give up on the Jacaranda. Mine got hits by 24 degrees. The top was dead, but it still came back from the roots, and grew like crazy.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Both of my Jacarandas were also sprayed and probably completely dead. Both are defoliated and sap is leaking from the trunks.

Tex, don't give up on the Jacaranda. Mine got hits by 24 degrees. The top was dead, but it still came back from the roots, and grew like crazy.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Houston, Texas

29.8649°N - 95.6521°W

Elevation 114.8 ft

Sunset zone 28

USDA zone 9a

Average maximum high temperature 93.60 F

Average maximum low temperature 45.20 F

The annual average precipitation is 53.34 Inches

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I think someone here that has been in email touch with Dr. Franko (discussing said product), should contact him and give him a link to these discussion (and disappointing results) threads.

Hi Walt, funny you mentioned this...I did contact Dr. Francko to let him know about all of the disappointment, and he does want to hear more about everyone's experiences. I initially contacted him to try to get special pricing for IPS members to be case studies, but the company that was distributing the product was not interested...

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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I think someone here that has been in email touch with Dr. Franko (discussing said product), should contact him and give him a link to these discussion (and disappointing results) threads.

Hi Walt, funny you mentioned this...I did contact Dr. Francko to let him know about all of the disappointment, and he does want to hear more about everyone's experiences. I initially contacted him to try to get special pricing for IPS members to be case studies, but the company that was distributing the product was not interested...

Hi Joe,

I hope you furnished Dr. Franko a link so he can read verbatim what those have posted with regard to their disappointing experiences using Freeze-Pruf.

Personally, I feel the claims for Freeze-Pruf were misleading, and the discriptions describing the efficacy of the product lacked the specificity I was looking for to make an informed assessment and judgement of it.

What I'm beginning to think now is that Freeze-Pruf might only be best suited to protecting foliage agains frost damage when the ambient temperatures are above 32F degrees, but the surface temperatures of the foliage are at or below freezing, where black ice forms as a result of frozen dew (which isn't frost, but has the appearance of such).

If the product could fully protect in the above case, it would still have some merit, as it could prevent cosmetic damage to frost sensitive foliage, but the overall plant itself might have a much lower cold tolerance threshold.

As you probably know, many palms (foliage) can handle down to 26F degrees, as long as they don't see frost.

Here in humid Florida, where we have high dew points, black ice forms on foliage as soon as the surface temperature of foliage drops to 32 degrees, as 90 percent or more of my freezes are radiational (where dew freezes and subsequently, frost forms). But the ambient temperature may be well above 35 degrees, even closer to 40 degrees! So Freeze-Pruf may work for these conditions.

I'm just trying to give some benefit of the doubt of the product and am not trying to knock it, per se. If I do by chance but some Freeze-Pruf, apply it properly to foliage as per label instructions, and my foliage are subjected to conditions just slightly below where they would damage normally -- and the product is a dismal failure -- then damn straight I would be here knocking the hell out of it! Because then I would have empirical experience with the product.

Up to now I only have anecdotal testimony, but I know most folks here that used the product probably used it correctly, because most folks here aren't the typical gardener, but are fanatics when it comes to palms and tropicals and invest much time and money to maintain them and don't want to lose them to freezes. I count myself as a fanatic. My wife will testify to that!

Walt

Mad about palms

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Logically, I don't see how it even could work. How can a thin layer of dried liquid insulate sensative plant tissues from freezing temps? It seems more likely to me that it would clog transpirational tissues that might naturally protect a plant and possibly cause extra damage.

Perry

Perry Glenn

SLO Palms

(805) 550-2708

http://www.slopalms.com

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That product is obviusly bogus. Time will show.

Big Tex.

Sorry to hear of your bad experiences with this product,(Freeze-Pruf). When I first read about this product, it sounded a little too good to be true. This was a bad freeze for me, has been several years since seeing one like this. 25 F and heavy, heavy frost. Everythig not under canopy cover or frost blankets was burned to a crisp, and even some things covered had some freeze damage. Hopefully, nothing more this severe for the remainder of winter.

Marvin

Southern Waller county,Texas

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Hi Marvin,

I haven't used this product. Just commenting. I rarely get frost here and if i do, it's usually in January.

Edited by Pivi

island Vis, adriatic sea, Croatia. Zone 9b/10a

Temperature low last winter: -0.9°C/30.4 F

Temperature low this winter: -0.3°C/31.5 F

-Creating my own little palm heaven-

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I think someone here that has been in email touch with Dr. Franko (discussing said product), should contact him and give him a link to these discussion (and disappointing results) threads.

Hi Walt, funny you mentioned this...I did contact Dr. Francko to let him know about all of the disappointment, and he does want to hear more about everyone's experiences. I initially contacted him to try to get special pricing for IPS members to be case studies, but the company that was distributing the product was not interested...

Hi Joe,

I hope you furnished Dr. Franko a link so he can read verbatim what those have posted with regard to their disappointing experiences using Freeze-Pruf.

Personally, I feel the claims for Freeze-Pruf were misleading, and the discriptions describing the efficacy of the product lacked the specificity I was looking for to make an informed assessment and judgement of it.

What I'm beginning to think now is that Freeze-Pruf might only be best suited to protecting foliage agains frost damage when the ambient temperatures are above 32F degrees, but the surface temperatures of the foliage are at or below freezing, where black ice forms as a result of frozen dew (which isn't frost, but has the appearance of such).

If the product could fully protect in the above case, it would still have some merit, as it could prevent cosmetic damage to frost sensitive foliage, but the overall plant itself might have a much lower cold tolerance threshold.

As you probably know, many palms (foliage) can handle down to 26F degrees, as long as they don't see frost.

Here in humid Florida, where we have high dew points, black ice forms on foliage as soon as the surface temperature of foliage drops to 32 degrees, as 90 percent or more of my freezes are radiational (where dew freezes and subsequently, frost forms). But the ambient temperature may be well above 35 degrees, even closer to 40 degrees! So Freeze-Pruf may work for these conditions.

I'm just trying to give some benefit of the doubt of the product and am not trying to knock it, per se. If I do by chance but some Freeze-Pruf, apply it properly to foliage as per label instructions, and my foliage are subjected to conditions just slightly below where they would damage normally -- and the product is a dismal failure -- then damn straight I would be here knocking the hell out of it! Because then I would have empirical experience with the product.

Up to now I only have anecdotal testimony, but I know most folks here that used the product probably used it correctly, because most folks here aren't the typical gardener, but are fanatics when it comes to palms and tropicals and invest much time and money to maintain them and don't want to lose them to freezes. I count myself as a fanatic. My wife will testify to that!

Walt

I have invited Dr. Francko to join this forum and respond. We should be seeing a post from him in the near future.

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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Dr. Dave Francko attempted to post on this thread, but for whatever reason, he has not been able to do so. He has asked me to post his response on his behalf:

"Dear IPS members,

Joe Bui alerted me to the many negative posts that have recently appeared on the IPS web board. I tried repeatedly to log in and post replies myself but for whatever reason the system is not letting me in (I am a Member so I don’t understand the problem). So, I asked Joe to post this response on my behalf and he graciously agreed – your findings are extremely important to me and I’d like to understand your difficulties if I can!

First, some background info about the mechanisms of FreezePruf action. At this writing the Liquid Fence people are finalizing a website that will post all the info I’m telling you here plus a great deal more.

FreezePruf is patent pending, with a GREAT deal of supporting evidence (from both lab and field work, mine and others) that it works, which is why everyone’s negative results are so puzzling. I also have a major paper ready to submit to HortTechnology that includes the foliar and flower results, plus a second paper on results (very positive) with mature fruits.

It works this way: a low-molecular weight cryoprotectant lowers the freezing point of all internal plant compartments. A second, high-molecular weight cryoprotectant stays outside the cells, drawing intracellular water out in a non-destructive fashion called cytorrhysis, which further lowers the freezing point inside the cells and at the same time lowers the freezing point of extracellular water. That same compound ALSO stabilizes cell membranes and reduces the damage that is caused when sharp ice crystals DO form as temps drop – kind of like allowing a needle to pass into a balloon without popping the balloon. A third ingredient bonds to cell walls and strengthens them against ice crystals. We add plant-specific surfactant to get the formulation into the leaves, flowers, and fruit. The formulation also includes a high-activity anti-transparent to reduce water loss and keep the formulation from washing off for 4 to 6 weeks.

Thus, it is NOT a topical treatment - - only the anti-transparent stays outside the leaf/flower/fruit. It is systemic in the sense that it penetrates plant organs (including the bud tissue of a palm!) and is translocated locally in the shoot tissue, but a spray containing a few liquid ounces of materially cannot be expected to protect the whole trunk of a large tree or palm (although root dipping in smallish potted plants may work).

So… it is an “antifreeze” for tender vegetation at or slightly below freezing, and it is a “freeze tolerance” enhancer for temps in the hard freeze range and lower. It does NOT inhibit the normal cold acclimation process that plants go through, and ADDS to the genetically-determined ability to tolerate cold, even for cold hardy Zone 7 and 8 plants. It is made from ingredients that are ALL in human food or used to grow human food.

It is a fact that for some high-water content tropicals, we were able to demonstrate that FreezePruf lowered the first damage and mortality temperatures by as much as 9.4 F - - the best example of this is the common peace lily Spathyphyllum, which literally could be taken down to the low-to-mid 20s for up to 2 hours without significant damage. But we also report that for lower-water-content trees (e.g., citrus), the effects on leaves and flowers were more on the order of 2 to 3 F.

FOR MOST PLANTS TESTED, INCLULDING MANY PALMS and BANANAS, the effective drop in the first damage temperature and the mortality temperature was in the middle of the 2 – 9F range - - on the order of 4 to 6 F.

This includes FIELD tests of windmill palms (which could experience successive nights of 5 and 6 F and 72+ hours below freezing with only minor margin and tip burn), cabbage palmettos, pindo palms, W. robusta, and P. canariensis plus M. basjoo, M velutina, and Red Abyssinian banana.

And despite the negative results people here have been reporting, many other emails and web posts, blogs, etc. (mainly earlier in the season from colder-winter areas) have been very positive, saying that the product worked VERY well through the earlier frosts and hard freezes. These posts and blogs have ALSO been dealing with the performance of tropicals and subtropicals, including the flowers of these plants.

I’ve done triage for some “testers” who got results less than they desired, and what I’ve been finding in most (but not all) cases is that it simply got too cold for too long for FreezePruf to work well. Alternately, some of the plants were not in that great of shape to begin with - - shorter days and very cool nights cause a lot of leaf yellowing and partial senescence in tropicals here in Zone 7b/8a Tuscaloosa, and those sort of “on-the-way-out” plants don’t respond as well to FreezePruf.

First – expectations of performance under various INTENSITIES and DURATIONS of cold…

You folks know the drill: a true tropical can’t take ANY exposure to 32 F and many are damaged even slightly above freezing. FreezePruf will allow those very tender plants to survive relatively unscathed at 30 -32 for several hours and under hard freeze conditions (27 – 29 F), it will allow you to get tropical bananas, etc. through maybe 1 hr so of hard freeze so long as the total duration of the event is perhaps 2 -3 hours or so.

For marginally hardier plants, say a Musa basjoo, even 6 – 8 hours below 32 will result in minor damage only, and even an event like we had here in Tuscaloosa in late November (5.5 hours below freezing, with 2.5 hours between 28 and 29F) caused less than 25% foliar burn in M. basjoo. Similarly, in last week’s first true hard freeze in Tuscaloosa (7 hrs below freezing and perhaps 2 h between 25 and 26 F) I still had NO damage to my Philodendron or totally exposed kumquat and P. canariensis. Now, I know some may claim that their plants ALREADY do that well, even with no treatment, but I’m going by the published, generally accepted hardiness data for tropicals and subtropicals, and thos plants DON’T survive hours at 28 - 29F under normal conditions.

In sum …. FreezePruf can’t work magic - - if it gets down to 26 F and stays there for a while, it was likely below freezing for a minimum of 6 – 7 hours, and under those conditions for MOST tropicals I would not expect survival. But under frost event conditions lasting several hours and true hard freeze conditions that are relatively short-duration, FreezePruf should have worked and many users are reporting that it DID work for them on tropicals, tender bedding plants, veggies, and subtropical ornamentals.

_____________________

So what might have been occurring with your plants??? Again, perhaps the duration and/or intensity of cold was a problem here for the specific plants you’re growing, even with FreezePruf, especially given the temps you had after a rather benign overall fall season ( = little or no prior cold acclimation?). Were any of your plants starting to senesce anyway?

One other note…. Several posts talked about a lot of residue on the leaves….. This should NOT be the case. At best/worst, there should be a little semi-translucent residue that represents the anti-dessicant drying on the surface - - which is what you WANT to see. Just asking….Is it possible that some users did not dilute the concentrate enough OR maybe applied more than once in a short period of time? Both of these techniques would not only increase the residue on the surface but would actually DECREASE the effectiveness of FreezePruf hugely – overapplication is not a good thing.

I sincerely hope the background and added info above helps. I know that I can’t convince someone who had a bad experience that the product actually works, but I thought I’d better try at anyway.

Since I seem to be having trouble posting on this site, I would welcome emails (dfrancko@ua.edu) although I will be reading my email only sporadically starting around Dec 23rd and through New Years.

Very Sincerely,

Dave Francko"

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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Sadly, none of what Dave Francko states are possible reasons for the product failure in my case. I followed the instructions very carefully and applied the product on the tops and bottoms of all leaves and stems at an appropriate temperature (52F) two days before the freeze on exceptionally healthy plants. The temperature dropped to 27.5F by 6AM but hadn't gone below 32F until after 1AM.

The most interesting observation that I made was with a completely untreated heliconia very near a thoroughly treated one. The untreated one was completely exposed and the treated one had 50% canopy (eaves of roof). The treated one had slightly more damage (75% of leaf area of exposed leaves) than the untreated one nearby (50% leaf burn). As I mentioned in my original post, my five year old (12 foot tall) Roystonea borinquena has endured every winter since I planted it as a liner without any protection and without any damage including a low of 26.5F in 2007. This recent freeze of 27.5F left it with approximately 40% leaf burn despite being Freeze-Pruf "protected". Go figure.

I spent $99.00 on two gallons, bought a new $150.00 sprayer just for this purpose, and spent a two days spraying plants to no avail. I would have been much better off using that time simply draping sheets over those sensitive plants and uncovering them the next morning. That method actually works quite well for me and it's only necessary once every few winters.

  • Upvote 1

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Now, I know some may claim that their plants ALREADY do that well, even with no treatment, but I’m going by the published, generally accepted hardiness data for tropicals and subtropicals, and thos plants DON’T survive hours at 28 - 29F under normal conditions.

This is simply not true.

island Vis, adriatic sea, Croatia. Zone 9b/10a

Temperature low last winter: -0.9°C/30.4 F

Temperature low this winter: -0.3°C/31.5 F

-Creating my own little palm heaven-

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Now, I know some may claim that their plants ALREADY do that well, even with no treatment, but I’m going by the published, generally accepted hardiness data for tropicals and subtropicals, and thos plants DON’T survive hours at 28 - 29F under normal conditions.

This is simply not true.

Pivi's right. That statement pertained to philodendron. P.canariensis, and kumquats. I have them all and they take MUCH colder temperatures than that and they've been known to survive still colder temps than mine have in colder climates even to 20F. I think a lot more experimenting needs to be done on this product. I noticed this afternoon that my kahili gingers are now finally browning on 80% of their foliage. Typical damage for them at 27.5F unprotected, but I sprayed them thoroughly with Freeze-Pruf too and it obviously did not have any effect.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Dr. Dave Francko attempted to post on this thread, but for whatever reason, he has not been able to do so. He has asked me to post his response on his behalf:

FOR MOST PLANTS TESTED, INCLULDING MANY PALMS and BANANAS, the effective drop in the first damage temperature and the mortality temperature was in the middle of the 2 – 9F range - - on the order of 4 to 6 F.

This includes FIELD tests of windmill palms (which could experience successive nights of 5 and 6 F and 72+ hours below freezing with only minor margin and tip burn), cabbage palmettos, pindo palms, W. robusta, and P. canariensis plus M. basjoo, M velutina, and Red Abyssinian banana.

Dave Francko"

I find this telling there is NOT a single tropical or sub tropical palm in the test group! All of the palms tested are some of the hardiest palms around! All taking sub freezing temps without any problems with NO protection,so it would seem that they are already genetically predisposed to handling freezing temps.

just my observations on this thread

Edited by gsn

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

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It only takes a couple minutes to setup a new account here. Sounds like a cover to make a statement and not need to answer follow-ups... Hope i'm wrong!

Edited by velutina

Adam 

 

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Explanation of how FreezePruf cryoprotection works demonstrate a chemical method of induction in mimicry of what natural reduction of internal water through lower volumetric soil moisture achieves. When one can reduce volumetric soil moisture, reduction of lethal formation of innercellular ice occurs, and crystal formation that does penetrate cell walls is limited so collapse of the cell does not occur so rapidly.

I am not sure if Freezepruf was tested with respect to moisture content in soil, but in consideration of how it works as a mimicry or reflection of lower volumetric soil moisture, it might be that exceptionally high volumetric soil moisture may counter lab reported benefit to Freezepruf, and be an explanation in regard to the recent experience of failure of that product, widespread.

I don't know what measures were taken for account of volumetric soil moisture in studies... and I suspect the culprit in regard to the product failure may rest there.

As for Dave's trouble with log in, it happens. Happened to me. Sometimes we digital immigrants are not thumby enough for digital navigation.

Sometimes, lethal freeze that defies explanation occurs in a plant. In a recent episode with air temperature that fell to -17F, my largest Trachycarpus fortunei, covered with a canvas tent and protected with c-7 lights on the ground, withstood the period, with some fronds lethally frozen and others untouched. Those frozen were the oldest, nearest the lights, where they should have received the first benefit from the radiant light and heat. This raises a question about cellular efficiency and potential entropy that lowers resistance to lethal freeze. Another observation that raises a question worthy of more precise and measurable study.

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John, looking at the total desiccation of that lower leaf, it looks more like it was from the light and not the cold. I am wondering if the light was placed near it? Also, because it looks like that was the only leaf (that I could see) that looks that damaged, and at -17F (boy that is really cold for this time of year!), it doesn't make sense that only one leaf would show that total desiccation, and no others show anywhere near that amt, if at all. There doesn't seem to be any kind of graduation of cold damage. I think it may be due to the light. Had you used the Freeze-pruf on it before the cold front came through?

So are you thinking that if the soil is wet , as it so often is in the winter here, that the Freeze-pruf may be ineffective? That the soil needs to be dry before/during a cold snap?

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There is no question damage to the frond is from lethal freeze of the cold. I am very familiar with lethal freeze damage in T fortunei following a subzero 0F event. Other fronds show damage, and they are likewise the lowest and oldest.

I have not used Freeze-pruf. But understand how it works. It appears to "mimic" natural conditions in arid locations, designed for application in wetter regions. We know many tropical type plants increase resistance to cold and lethal freeze in arid soil, and arid regions by a range almost identical to Freeze-pruf claims. In some T fortunei, I do not see lethal freeze known in the east until 0F, down to -5F. For R hystrix, that resistance drops to -13F.

However several issues arise for me.

First is application and absorption time prior to the period of expected lethal cold, or at least potential for it. If applied "too late," then not only is absorption and metabolization by the plant less efficient, but when a period of deep cold occurs, the plant may not be vested to endure the stress. I irrigate the palms during the growing season, but wean then into drought mode beginning with the first fall frost and freeze. By the time of anticipated subzero 0F cold events roughly sixty days later, the palms are in drought mode. Volumetric soil moisture falls to less than 0.10%, carbohydrate ratio in cell fluid is increased, so threshold of lethal freeze will occur at lower temperature. Perhaps that is the time Freeze-pruf should be applied in wet soil regions, for best results. So, time of application may play an important role, and in fact, label directions appear to indicate that!

Second, if volumetric soil moisture is extremely high, that may reduce efficiency of the product to protect a plant. T fortunei are sponges, and absorb moisture with amazing speed. In our climate, winter watering of many trees is considered essential for their winter survival because of the aridity. I dare not water the palms at any time during winter. One warm day of winter irrigation could negate what took a month of fall drought mode to initiate. What ever moisture they get from snow, which is relatively dry, is it. Typically during our period from 1 Nov to 1 Mar, we receive just over three total inches of precipitation, all as snow. When soil thaws, usually early to mid March I resume irrigation of the palms.

John, looking at the total desiccation of that lower leaf, it looks more like it was from the light and not the cold. I am wondering if the light was placed near it? Also, because it looks like that was the only leaf (that I could see) that looks that damaged, and at -17F (boy that is really cold for this time of year!), it doesn't make sense that only one leaf would show that total desiccation, and no others show anywhere near that amt, if at all. There doesn't seem to be any kind of graduation of cold damage. I think it may be due to the light. Had you used the Freeze-pruf on it before the cold front came through?

So are you thinking that if the soil is wet , as it so often is in the winter here, that the Freeze-pruf may be ineffective? That the soil needs to be dry before/during a cold snap?

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There is no question damage to the frond is from lethal freeze of the cold. I am very familiar with lethal freeze damage in T fortunei following a subzero 0F event. Other fronds show damage, and they are likewise the lowest and oldest.

I have not used Freeze-pruf. But understand how it works. It appears to "mimic" natural conditions in arid locations, designed for application in wetter regions. We know many tropical type plants increase resistance to cold and lethal freeze in arid soil, and arid regions by a range almost identical to Freeze-pruf claims. In some T fortunei, I do not see lethal freeze known in the east until 0F, down to -5F. For R hystrix, that resistance drops to -13F.

However several issues arise for me.

First is application and absorption time prior to the period of expected lethal cold, or at least potential for it. If applied "too late," then not only is absorption and metabolization by the plant less efficient, but when a period of deep cold occurs, the plant may not be vested to endure the stress. I irrigate the palms during the growing season, but wean then into drought mode beginning with the first fall frost and freeze. By the time of anticipated subzero 0F cold events roughly sixty days later, the palms are in drought mode. Volumetric soil moisture falls to less than 0.10%, carbohydrate ratio in cell fluid is increased, so threshold of lethal freeze will occur at lower temperature. Perhaps that is the time Freeze-pruf should be applied in wet soil regions, for best results. So, time of application may play an important role, and in fact, label directions appear to indicate that!

Second, if volumetric soil moisture is extremely high, that may reduce efficiency of the product to protect a plant. T fortunei are sponges, and absorb moisture with amazing speed. In our climate, winter watering of many trees is considered essential for their winter survival because of the aridity. I dare not water the palms at any time during winter. One warm day of winter irrigation could negate what took a month of fall drought mode to initiate. What ever moisture they get from snow, which is relatively dry, is it. Typically during our period from 1 Nov to 1 Mar, we receive just over three total inches of precipitation, all as snow. When soil thaws, usually early to mid March I resume irrigation of the palms.

John, looking at the total desiccation of that lower leaf, it looks more like it was from the light and not the cold. I am wondering if the light was placed near it? Also, because it looks like that was the only leaf (that I could see) that looks that damaged, and at -17F (boy that is really cold for this time of year!), it doesn't make sense that only one leaf would show that total desiccation, and no others show anywhere near that amt, if at all. There doesn't seem to be any kind of graduation of cold damage. I think it may be due to the light. Had you used the Freeze-pruf on it before the cold front came through?

So are you thinking that if the soil is wet , as it so often is in the winter here, that the Freeze-pruf may be ineffective? That the soil needs to be dry before/during a cold snap?

John, if all this is true, then the product is nearly useless to most of us. Our palms are either naturally watered during winter rains or most of us occasionally irrigate during drier periods since, for many of us, many of our palms are actively growing throughout the year. I'm not about to drought stress my palms in my zone 9b with the thought of a rare freeze. Besides I get most of my precipitation during the winter months anyway.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

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Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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I am not sure I am following you when you say " So, time of application may play an important role, and in fact, label directions appear to indicate that!" -in reference to applying it when the soil has been dry and the palms/tropicals are in a drought growing mode. I don't believe that the label directions do indicate that. I think the directions on the label indicate that it may be applied as close as 8 hrs before a cold snap, and that it must be at least 50 degrees? there is, of course nothing to indicate that wet soil will perhaps negatively affect the intended results of the product.

At any rate-if you are even somewhat correct in your educated guess that this product would not be effective(or not anywhere near what the label suggests it will do) unless the plants are in a drought growing mode, then its useless for myself and maybe a high percentage of people that get consistent rain in the cooler months. The last time I had consistently dry soil was back in mid October, and unfortunately this product would have worn off by now-when the temps are in the 20's. had I applied it then.

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I am not sure I am following you when you say " So, time of application may play an important role, and in fact, label directions appear to indicate that!" -in reference to applying it when the soil has been dry and the palms/tropicals are in a drought growing mode. I don't believe that the label directions do indicate that. I think the directions on the label indicate that it may be applied as close as 8 hrs before a cold snap, and that it must be at least 50 degrees? there is, of course nothing to indicate that wet soil will perhaps negatively affect the intended results of the product.

At any rate-if you are even somewhat correct in your educated guess that this product would not be effective(or not anywhere near what the label suggests it will do) unless the plants are in a drought growing mode, then its useless for myself and maybe a high percentage of people that get consistent rain in the cooler months. The last time I had consistently dry soil was back in mid October, and unfortunately this product would have worn off by now-when the temps are in the 20's. had I applied it then.

I also agree that if your suppostion is correct, (and this is suppostion as we haven't heard this from Dr. Franco, as the directions say nothing about soil moisture content, just minmum temps and timing of when the product can be applied)that plants basically need to be in DROUGHT conditions for Freeze-Pruf to work most effectively, this product is basically useless, especially here in the south east! Almost every cold front is preceded by RAIN, that is about the only rain we get in the winter! After the rain usually comes the cold temps,usually radiational in nature after the front has passed, we do get an ocassional advective freeze,but most are after the front has passed and it has rained, and we have clear open skies the following night(s).

Plus this drought thing goes against everything I have been told as a boy growing up here, in Florida at least. The prevailing wisdom, old wifes tale anyway, is to irrigate heavily before a freeze, to increase moisture before a cold snap freezing event, rather than having less water in the plants cells. At least I assumed that was their reasoning to have more water in the plants (cells)? But like I say, that might be an old wifes tale,I'm just going from what I have been told by old timers , not scientists !

Edited by gsn

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

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We're trying to understand why Freeze-Pruf had such widespread reported failures that were not anticipated by lab studies or associated field reports.

Lethal freeze in plants the product attempts to protect occurs when ice crystals form inside cells, and the sharp blades of ice rupture the cell wall from inside out. When above freezing temperature returns, plant tissues collapse from catastrophic water loss and dessication.

Drought mode reduces water in cells, raising ratio of carbs and fats that act like antifreeze, lowering temperature at which ice crystal formation begins. Cell walls are thicker and more elastic in drought mode, and not as easily ruptured by blades of lethal ice from inside. This was noticed in the arid west, where many plants routinely survive temperatures almost uniformly fatal in the east, particularly in yucca and palms, and became a focus of lab study to duplicate in wetter conditions. Some plants may be exceptions; conifers, and some broad leaf evergreens like holly need more winter moisture during deep cold events.

Freeze pruf attempts to chemically induce drought simulation in plants to mimic the benefit of drought mode.

Second, we are discovering some long honored practices aren't what they seem. In my region, broad leaf evergreens fry in winter with roots in frozen soil, and hot, dry, dessicating sun that sucks moisture from leaves and stems faster than plants can replace it. The few hollies, euonymous and pyracantha to be seen are in protected, north exposures. But for some evergreens, some never before attempted here, that isn't true. I found the best microclimate for the two palm species possible here is a west exposure, in full afternoon sun. This winter I am studying GDD in T fortunei to account for the slow, but relentless growth of a spear and frond all winter, between 1 Nov and 1 Mar, that occurs every year. In Pueblo is a Magnolia grandiflora growing in fun sun, in almost desert winter conditions, in some of the worst soil you can imagine, that suffers no winter damage. I failed with M grandiflora Edith Bogue three times in other, "protected" locations, and copying what I saw in Pueblo, works. Absolutely the opposite of what common best practice advice has been here.

Many assumptions have been made, and some are simply wrong. Only test and trial can verify or refute assumptions. Florida is vastly different than New Mexico or Colorado. Our USDA Zone 5 is nothing like the Ohio Zone 5, just as your Zone 8 is nothing like Alaska's Zone 8. For that reason, Sunset developed another zone system, based on more than just annual low winter temperature. If you are gardening with experimental things for your zone and climate, you are going where few have gone before.

Here in Colorado, I was able to watch palm growth from a different perspective, because palms had never been attempted in this kind of climate. My hypothesis was if trunking palmito yucca can survive here, then there must be true palms that can also survive here. I vigorously tested about ten species, finding two that with a little winter help, demonstrate an ability to withstand our climate. My work pioneered the understanding of growth, decline and equilibrium, recording how T fortunei survive even -14F events, totally defoliated, but in regeneration of growth, they could not regain what was lost, and were defoliated again next winter. They would live four or five years like this, finally perishing from exhaustion. Palms have no dormancy. They either grow, or decline. In decline they lose foliage mass; in our case from defoliation by lethal freeze. Once they reach equilibrium, trunk formation begins. In equilibrium, they shed a frond for each new one grown, developing the characteristic bare trunk with a mop of fronds at the top. Palmito, trunking yucca do this too. When it was discovered that if lethal freeze of tissue can be stopped in winter, during the total of three to five days those conditions occur, then decline could be avoided. We discovered that T fortunei increase resistance to cold when they enter the equilibrium phase. I have R hystrix that flowered and produced seed- first palms to do that in Colorado in 35 million years!

The following You Tube video about T fortunei, offers some interesting insights.

Point is, we are just beginning to learn the possibilities of this, and to understand how things work. Some of the assumptions we thought, aren't true. If you are pushing zone planting in your location, you are engaged in some important work, and you should at the very least, keep a journal. This experience with Freeze-pruf is part of that learning process. Maybe it works, and maybe not. Maybe we have to learn more about application of it.

This drought thing goes against everything I have been told as a boy growing up here, in Florida at least. The prevailing wisdom, old wifes tale anyway, is to irrigate heavily before a freeze, to increase moisture before a cold snap freezing event, rather than having less water in the plants cells. At least I assumed that was their reasoning to have more water in the plants (cells)? But like I say, that might be an old wifes tale,I'm just going from what I have been told by old timers , not scientists !
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I was hoping that it would help from occasional frost but I didn't think it would help from extreme cold. I once thought if I built a plastic tent around my palms on a really cold night it would help but I found that was a waist of time too. I had more damage from where the plastic touched the fronds then if I had not covered them at all. Also the air temps inside the plastic was the same as outside so it was a bust.There are ways to protect small palms from frost or cold but a coating on the fronds is probably not one of them.

David

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I was hoping that it would help from occasional frost but I didn't think it would help from extreme cold. I once thought if I built a plastic tent around my palms on a really cold night it would help but I found that was a waist of time too. I had more damage from where the plastic touched the fronds then if I had not covered them at all. Also the air temps inside the plastic was the same as outside so it was a bust.There are ways to protect small palms from frost or cold but a coating on the fronds is probably not one of them.

Plastic is an efficient conductor, thus when it is in contact with the plant, it conducts what little heat is in the plant to the colder air. Heat always flows from hot to cold. Even a cotton covering will conduct heat away from the plant's surface, but not at the same rate that plastic will. When I must cover plants I generally (especially on plant surfaces exposed directly to the sky) several light layers of a cotton covering so as to help break the conductivity bridge between the plant and the surrounding air. With multiple light layers of covering you get some air space between the layers (air is a poor conductor of heat) and this in itself provides additional insulation, aside from the coverings.

(I've covered ixora shurbs with single layer of insulation and the top leaves (exposed directly to the sky and where dew and frost more readily forms, and the leaves were burned. Under the same conditions, when I used multiple layers of coverings, the leaves were not burned. Of course, this only applies during light freezing conditions, not hard frosts, where no amount of covering is going to totally protect your plant.)

The best way is to tent the plant so that none of the covering touches the plant, and have the tent sides extend all the way down to the ground so that rising ground heat stays within the tent, and not flow out the sides.

I've found that the proper coverings do mostly prevent frost from forming on foliage, but the coverings won't ultimately help during a severe hard freeze, it only delays the rate of heat loss from the plant. That's why I try to use supplemental heat (i.e., string lights, heating cables, etc.) beneath my coverings. If I use a tent, I sometimes use an old electric skillet, light bulbs, etc. I have several old electric skillets (where the teflon coating was getting bad) that my wife discarded. I use them where I can to provide heat. They are really only good for a small greenhouse or tent, where all of the heat is captured.

Mad about palms

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Walt, I agree that plastic touching the leaves is a really bad idea-the frost/freezing goes right through the plastic to the leaves. But I have found that if you can get several layers on the plants (like you said) it will stop the freezing of the leaves. Where we may differ is that I have found that you can put plastic on either several layers of thin cotton, or over one really thick layer(frost blankets), and that will protect the leaves. The top of the blanket will absorb the ice/frost and not the layers closest to the leaves. the key is that the plastic has to be the top layer and there has to be thickness of blankets underneath-and that will protect the leaves from freezing-even in 11 degree temps. I have brought Phoenix sylvestris. L. chinensis etc through 2 nights of 11 and 15 degrees cold with just blankets and heavy duty weed block over the frost blankets that way. I don't use any type of heat other than the blankets.

Actually where I learned that is that in the spring (late March) I move a lot of annuals outside to harden them off-most notably begonias-which are extremely susceptible to frost and freezes. Once they are outside they have to be covered and protected from even a very light frost. All we do is cover the rows with frost blankets (the heavy ones that are 8' wide), dble layer and a top layer of the heavy duty weed block which will absorb the moisture. In extreme lower temps-say 26-28 degrees (of which we don't have many at that time of year), I will put huge pieces of 6 mil plastic over the weed block to help in getting the layers. Its amazing, but it works well, and there is hardly any damage to the leaves-if there is, its always around the edges, but those leaves are just removed later. I have had a few times where it snows on them and its still fine-because of the blankets under the weed block.

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Walt, I agree that plastic touching the leaves is a really bad idea-the frost/freezing goes right through the plastic to the leaves. But I have found that if you can get several layers on the plants (like you said) it will stop the freezing of the leaves. Where we may differ is that I have found that you can put plastic on either several layers of thin cotton, or over one really thick layer(frost blankets), and that will protect the leaves. The top of the blanket will absorb the ice/frost and not the layers closest to the leaves. the key is that the plastic has to be the top layer and there has to be thickness of blankets underneath-and that will protect the leaves from freezing-even in 11 degree temps. I have brought Phoenix sylvestris. L. chinensis etc through 2 nights of 11 and 15 degrees cold with just blankets and heavy duty weed block over the frost blankets that way. I don't use any type of heat other than the blankets.

Actually where I learned that is that in the spring (late March) I move a lot of annuals outside to harden them off-most notably begonias-which are extremely susceptible to frost and freezes. Once they are outside they have to be covered and protected from even a very light frost. All we do is cover the rows with frost blankets (the heavy ones that are 8' wide), dble layer and a top layer of the heavy duty weed block which will absorb the moisture. In extreme lower temps-say 26-28 degrees (of which we don't have many at that time of year), I will put huge pieces of 6 mil plastic over the weed block to help in getting the layers. Its amazing, but it works well, and there is hardly any damage to the leaves-if there is, its always around the edges, but those leaves are just removed later. I have had a few times where it snows on them and its still fine-because of the blankets under the weed block.

kahili: We don't differ concerning the plastic. I've stated here many times (in cold protection postings) that plastic isn't inherently bad for protecting palms and plantings, etc., but it can be bad if misapplied.

I use PVC tarps to cover over wrapped (flannel sheets, plain sheets, old quilted mattress covers, old bed spreads and comforters, etc.) palms and shrubs, etc. I do this because invariably (on radiational cooling nights) dew will wet the coverings prior to it freezing into black ice. Wrapping a palm/plant with sheets, then wrapping over that with plastic will keep dew from forming and saturating the sheets.

After 12 years of diversified experience in the art of cold/freeze/frost, etc., protection of palms and plants, there's just about no technique I haven't tried. Without exception, tenting, with the addtion of supplemental heat, is probably the best technique. A close second is the bundling of palm fronds to reduce girth, then applying string lights or heating cables; then installing multiple wrappings using cotton type of materials; then wrapping with PVC tarp or poly to prevent dew from forming on inner wrappings -- is the best. The latter method works better for palms that can be wrapped off a tall step ladder.

The below photos show two of my cold protection techniques . Inside the tent I place a heat source, such as an old electric skillet. I once had a very large tent that covered several plantings and installed a 1500 watt space heater in it. I monitored the inside of the tent using a remote digital thermometer sensor. The temperature never dropped below 55 degrees, even when the outside temperature dropped into the high 20s at sun up.

1060954636042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

Small majesty palm wrapped with flannel sheets, plus using one 40 ft. long heating cable for supplementary heat. That's a 10 Ft. step ladder in the photo.

1060955184042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

PVC tarp installed over flannel sheets and heating cable (I've since installed heating cables under the flannel sheets

1060957676042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

Down and dirty PVC pipe framework to support PVC tarp over ixora shurb. First I drove some 1/2" steel rebar in the ground and then slipped the 1" PVC pipe over it. That's all it takes to stablize/support the pipe. I have lots of 3' lengths of rebar for this purpose. You only need to drive the rebar about 6" into the soil. Note heating cable snaked through ixora shrub. I have both 24 Ft. length and 40 Ft. length heating cables.

1060960740042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

PVC tarp installed to form tent over ixora shurb to help hold in heat from heating cable)

Most winters I only have one or two bad nights. However, these nights could be one month or more apart. Not knowing when to really expect a bad night, and to reduce my labor, I will leave palm fronds tied up/bundled and framework in place, so that I only have to wrap them when I know a freeze is eminent.

Mad about palms

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John, if all this is true, then the product is nearly useless to most of us. Our palms are either naturally watered during winter rains or most of us occasionally irrigate during drier periods since, for many of us, many of our palms are actively growing throughout the year. I'm not about to drought stress my palms in my zone 9b with the thought of a rare freeze. Besides I get most of my precipitation during the winter months anyway.

That being my case too - well, I was hoping to push a little on the 9a zone, but it seems I have to give up hope for now.

Thanks to everyone who shared their experience with the product.

40270.gif

Greetings from Amman/Jordan

Simona

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I don't know why the representatives from Freeze Pruf are not doing this themselves, but they have asked me to see who on palmtalk in California would want to be a case study for them. They want someone who is pushing the growing zone limit (who isn't here), and has to contend with temps in the 20's. If you are interested, please PM me so I can forward their contact information to you.

NOTE: I am NOT affiliated with Freeze Pruf in any way. I just want to grow MORE tropical palms, and if I/we can help a company create such a product for me/us, I am willing to assist.

Huntington Beach, CA

USDA Zone 10a/10b

Sunset Zone 24

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