Soil preparation

[Shon]

I hae not looked at this thread for awhile. Your pics remind me of last spring when I did a complete overhaul on the front and back garden. Alot of picks,digging bars,shovels,wheelbarrows,worm castings etc etc. It'll be well worth it. From the background it looks like your neighborhood is already pretty palmy. Get a couple of thermometers and find your microclimates coronata,javana and elmeri are tougher than you think.

[DoomsDave]

Hey Vince:

Looks like you've got some heavy clay. The good news is that it can be about the best soil you can have, since it holds water. The bad news is that it's a lot of work to get it to fulfil its potential.

So, keep digging, and adding LOTS of organic stuff. I dig down about 18 - 24", an dbury layers of trash (leaves, grass clippings, etc.) under 6" layers of dirt, like a giant layer cake. Keep it wet and it rots down quite fast. The plants love it.

I have half an acre of clay, and most of the plants do well. Come visit and see!

dave

[palmcurry]

Hey Vince:

Looks like you've got some heavy clay. The good news is that it can be about the best soil you can have, since it holds water. The bad news is that it's a lot of work to get it to fulfil its potential.

So, keep digging, and adding LOTS of organic stuff. I dig down about 18 - 24", an dbury layers of trash (leaves, grass clippings, etc.) under 6" layers of dirt, like a giant layer cake. Keep it wet and it rots down quite fast. The plants love it.

I have half an acre of clay, and most of the plants do well. Come visit and see!

dave

Thanks Dave, might stop by one of these days. I go to LA everynow and then and I dig visiting home gardens! Plus I like to document with my camera if allowed.

I hope to add ooddles of oganic compost as budget allows but all the pick-axing has hurt my back so far! Taking a break for now to recover. ANyhows, thanks for the feedback.

Vince

[palmcurry]

Well the soil preping is about done After various challenges and injury we have finaly wrapped up this essential phase

Here are some before & after shots.

Here is the yard after picking with a 24" pick and laying down LOTS of gypsum. The scattered containers make it look like a war zone! But thats because we had to move them around constantly while picking

Here is the same area after laying down 100% compost I bought from the city of SJC( $33 a cubic yard ) We raked it around till it was 95% level and hosed it in thoroughly.

The yorkie is doing her part to fertilize the newly prepd soil

[palmcurry]

After raking the compost over the clay evenly I had my asistant re-pick the whole area to mix both clay & soil together. I did this instead of renting a rototiller for $50 because it's cheaper(my yard is small, man power won't take that long) and because the pick can go deeper than the rototiller.

This 24" pick was essential.

My hairy assistant is about 15" for scale

[palmcurry]

Facing east is the long view of the yard before the compost was put down.

Where I really lucked out was all the rain we've had recently. About two weeks ago right before the first major downpour we picked up the yard and started throwing down the gypsum. Right when it started drenching is when we finished laying it all over the yard. Then three days later when the showers took a brief break, we went back out and did the same thing again. Used about 10 bags of gypsum.

I watered the compost in thoroughly for almost 2 hours to start the integration. NOW it's starting to look like a yard!

[palmcurry]

Here is another after shot like the one above.

Before

After

[palmcurry]

Some more after shots of the main yard.

[palmcurry]

Here is the last before shot of the patio side of the house.

After

[palmcurry]

Here is my neighbor Divino that I hired. I really meant to get a better photo of him but we were working. Couldn't ask for a better neighbor: I actually tweaked my back in December while picking the clay and I would try to help Divino with the heavier tasks and he kept telling me not to risk further injury.

He dose landscaping work and needed help with a promo flyer. I gladly whipped up this one:

I made it 4 plane so he can cut them up and pass them out. If you need yard work and live in south OC, he dose quality work.

[palmcurry]

Here is the compost we picked by the dump. The guy gave me WAY more than 2 cubic yards!

[palmcurry]

Here is my current layout for the palms and plants. Each square in the grid is a sq. foot.

We want to put in a small pond with a waterfall but finances dictate we have to wait a little while When it IS time, though, I will put in the raised beds and new fence - final touches to the hardscape.

So this finishes my soil preparation thread. From here the plan is:

1. Sprinkler system(gonna have to wait on this one too)

2. Grass turf

3. Raised beds, the top soil/compost therein, and rocks.

4. Planting

Since I'm a palmtalker and like taking photos, I'll create future threads for these steps too.

[palmcurry]

Want to give a big thanks to those of you who chimed in and helped me: Troy, Aaron(bags), MattyB, Kris, Joe OC, BS man(who said 'read what Matty said then do it ) and Bruce.

I did'nt know about gypsum, compost or raised beds before this thread( I knew what they were, just not how to go about it)so I researched what you guys said and learned tons. The advantage and beauty of a forum like this one

To keep from asking to many questions or sending too many PM's, I picked up this book by Elizabeth Stell. Secrets to Great Soil has it all and reiterated everything that was posted on this thread and then some more. Can't recomend it enough to anyone doing soil preparation.

Anyhows, Spring is right around the corner. Peace out

Vince

[Frank in Vero]

Looks like all the hard work is going to pay off. I can't wait to see some of the after pics when you get everything in the ground.

Nice job, Vince.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Frank in Vero

[MattyB]

Looking good brother! All your hard work will pay off.

[Kris]

Dear Vince

Great Work ! And very clear visuals,which are self explianatery..

But seeing your soil texture,i must say that what i got here in our garden is not even close to your

sticky clayee soil grade.it appears to be blackish bluiesh grey color(similar colour of a concreate or cement mix).

Since mine garden soil does not make footware impression while walking on it when wet or during rainy season.And its brownish in colour.

What i observed in your stills is your garden soil is very sticky and very hard to work or dig in it.Since even the tools will stick to it.

You seem to have more patience,and one plus point is that you need not over water your plants in peak summer.

All the best and keep us updated on the progress..

Thanks & Love,

kris

[Tassie_Troy1971]

Bloody hell Vince , you have been working hard . The clay won't be around for much longer . The compost looks great mixed in with everything else the palms will thrive in it . Can you buy bags of cow/steer manure over there ,or sheep its great to mix in for organic fertilizing.

If you can get some large rocks for a raised bed border they look excellent , i shifted a hundred i reckon in june july 2008 ,i was lucky because a bloke gave them to me for free off his property.

A dripper system on a 13mm tube is ideal for irrigation , i have a thicker pipe 13mm running along my fence with 4mm flexible pipe attached with a dripper on the end ( 1 for small palms 2 for big mommas) . This is the cheapest way ive found

Here is an alright site over your way.

http://dripworks.dirxion.com/WebProject.asp?BookCode=dws09flx#

.

Looks like a good selection of palms to plant too. Do you have any Howea's or Rhopalostylis to go in as well ?

WELL DONE **** four stars for effort .

[palmcurry]

Troy,

I'd dig seeing pics of your yard and your irrigation system. Got a few kentia palms- a large 5gal thas sun acclimated, just got a few R.baueri 1gals I got from pogobob in a trade. Thanks for the drip sys. info, thats next on the list. Joe OC turned me onto a good manure/compost place and I'm gonna hit it up soon...I think I need it more than soil.

Keep in touch, mate

[palmcurry]

Dear Vince

Great Work ! And very clear visuals,which are self explianatery..

But seeing your soil texture,i must say that what i got here in our garden is not even close to your

sticky clayee soil grade.it appears to be blackish bluiesh grey color(similar colour of a concreate or cement mix).

Since mine garden soil does not make footware impression while walking on it when wet or during rainy season.And its brownish in colour.

What i observed in your stills is your garden soil is very sticky and very hard to work or dig in it.Since even the tools will stick to it.

You seem to have more patience,and one plus point is that you need not over water your plants in peak summer.

All the best and keep us updated on the progress..

Thanks & Love,

kris

Thanks Kris. Apreesh the support.

If I ever come to India, I would wantto stop by and see your palms and clayee soil My property was dug out from a hill side so there is'nt any original topsoil left. So I think I need a few more cubit yards over time to get it plant friendly.

Have a good one

[palmcurry]

Looks like all the hard work is going to pay off. I can't wait to see some of the after pics when you get everything in the ground.

Nice job, Vince.

Thanks Frank! Wish we has the weather you get in Vero beach. It's cold, wet and shady here. But we get the better waves year round

[palmcurry]

Looking good brother! All your hard work will pay off.

Matt, If my wife and I ever finish remodeling this place(inside & out) and have a house-warming party I'll send you an invite Hopefully you can come. We live a mile from Doheny beach/Dana point.

[Kris]

Dear Vince

You are welcome...

love,

kris

[BS Man about Palms]

Vince, missed this since the first time around, looking good!

I would plant "above the soil line" or at least only half the root ball in the soil for the next year. But if ALL is going to in the raised planters, it will take care of that. Obviously, there are a few that won't be bothered as much by the soil for the next year.

[_Keith]

Here in the heavy clay/silt soils of So. Louisiana. I till the native soil thoroughly in a large area. The only a where I am going to plant, maybe 4 times the size of the rootball, minimum. The only amendment I add to the native soil is http://www.rootsinc.com/products/product%20data%20sheets/TRANSPLANT%201-STEP.pdf. I plant to half the depth of the original rootball. To make up the rest of the space to the full height of the rootball I use a soil/compost combination over the top of the native soil, but do not mix it in with native soil, over the top only. Then mulch over the top of everything. With our rainfalls, I find that any deeper I get root rot, and shallower I find I have to water too much. I think this is a good formula, maybe going deeper in areas with less rains, but no shallower.

[DoomsDave]

Vince:

Looking good!

Treat your soil like a cherished lover, and it will reward you abundantly. Gee, that sounds a bit kinky . . . .

[Bags]

Looking good Vince. You are going to have a killer little paradise when it is all said and done...One more thing I don't think you mentioned, but is as important as anything is drainage. There is nothing worse than having a mucky mess for weeks after a rain. Adding a french drain and tying in your rain gutters will make a world of difference. Keep us posted and let me know if you ever make it down here for a surf. Aaron

[palmcurry]

BS Man & Kieth,

I know, its so easy to get root rot in this clay conundrum! Thanks for the 'planting half the rootball' suggestion. I was thinking that too untill Dan Andersen suggested a different method thats more laborous and costly: say I was to plant a 15 gal. I would dig out a 30 gal sized hole with some considerable depth. That way the original rootball isnt in contact with the clay right off.

I'm thinking of going with this method for the plants that don't go into the raised bed. I

[palmcurry]

Dave,

I will make my lover swwon with green life!!

Aaron,

Will definitely call when I come down. I bet seapoint has been going off these past swells! Creek here has been epic.

[BS Man about Palms]

Vince, sadly thats not the point.

"Clay contact" is not the point. Its the fact that it doesn't drain, or at least fast enough. You need to think of the clay as one step more porous than cement. what ever sized hole you have is what size "bucket" you just made. You would just go to all that trouble to make a 30 gal sized bucket. Its a little different inland as the daytime highs are good enough to promote faster palm growth and some evaporation. But along the coast it stays too cool and the soil temps are cooler too. The point of elevated planting, or "half out" is that it will ALWAYS be moist at some depth in your clay,you just want your palms roots to FIND it, not be SUBJECTED to it. Once a water source is found roots will increase in size to use it. Winter (around here) is usually the bigger problem than summer when you plant in clay as you can't control the rain amounts!

So a bigger hole in the summer would work where you could control your water amount. Come winter if we have lots of rains, you're back to where you started.

After all that, your amending is lowering the "level" you can easily plant at.

[palmcurry]

Bill,

I understand a bit better now, thank you. I amended the heck out of this clay and am hoping that in 3 months time it will be enough. So, as the roots find the water source and get bigger, they pull the plant & upper root mass back into the ground?? Maybe I'll do raised beds all around. I definitely don't want waterlogged plants!

[BS Man about Palms]

Getting closer Vince. Only heeled palms will draw lower into the ground for a while. Its a size thing AND a clay thing. 1 gal plants you can place just barely out of the soil and be OK. But bigger palms have deeper roots. Same thing I said. Let the roots FIND the wet clay, not be subjected to it.