Royal Palm Issue..now have pics

[lpandroc]

Hi all...Several weeks ago i had posted a new topic in regards to my Royal...All still is not well...I now have pics and the old post is below..help me save my baby!!!...its just not green and flourishing like a Royal should..Even the new fronds yellow and brown quickly?..Thanks all!!!

Hi all,

I have had a Royal for a 2 years now...Overall..its just ok..weathered a few Hurricanes...producing spears somewhat (not fast enough it seems)..its about 12-15ft high...

Never seemed to take off and have a nice big green canopy?...Like I said..just ok

Has had plenty of water this summer..I Lesco it every few months with the Pink bag Lesco Palm Fert.

I have noticed that the new fronds yellow pretty quick and the tips brown as well?

Im not sure whats going on...any advice ?...I want that big green royal canopy I see even here in Pinellas County.

Am I losing this battle here?

Thanks again

Lance

Palm Harbor, FL

[lpandroc]

another pic

[lpandroc]

another

[MattyB]

Could it be salt air?  Or wind?  Just guessing.  I'm sure it's different in Florida, but here in San Diego it seems that sometimes they don't like the salt air, and I know from experience that they tatter and browntip in the wind.  But I'm pretty sure I've seen nice looking Royals right near the beach in Florida looking great.  Dosen't make sense to me.  Good Luck.  Hopefully some of the Florida experts can get your Royal back on the fast track.

[lpandroc]

and another..last one

[Ken Johnson]

Can you send a pic of the whole crown?

[spockvr6]

If this wasnt October, Id say that looks like frost damage!

[lpandroc]

nope...not frost...new spears are getting like this quick

[redant]

I agree, picture of the whole crown.

I have about 60 of these in the ground now. I have had a couple pass away for no reason. Look great then slowly die.

I have planed right back in the same place and the new one does fine.

One of my smaller ones took a beating in the hurricanes, had a very loose root/trunk area. after a while it seemed to repair itself,  nice and tight, then it dropped dead!

[lpandroc]

please send me your email for larger pic of crown...pic too big for board...thx

[MattyB]

Lance, send it to mattbradford1@cox.net and I'll resize it for you.

[Ken Johnson]

Thanks Matt!

[lpandroc]

Matt...sent...Im such a newbie

[Ken Johnson]

Lance,

You can find some email addies in the member profile too!

[MattyB]

Allright.  Here's a couple of crown shots from Lance.

[MattyB]

I won't even speculate.  Just leave it to the experts.

[MattyB]

Those leaves look stunted to me.  Royals usually have really long upright leaves.

[Ken Johnson]

I see that the newer leaves look ok. That is good. The older ones have suffered damage but it looks physical rather than biological. That means wind (or something like salt etc.) rather that bugs. To be sure feed the palm and water it well for a month to get the last effects of the growing season this year.

[lpandroc]

not too windy here...its almost as new spikes emerge...its only weeks before they start to yellow and brown on tips...i rcently put magnesim and mangenese supplent in addition to Lesco pam fert....

maybe its not getting enough water..but really it seems it does not mateer...the fronds wither and look like Sh*t from the get go

I should of went with a Phoenix Dactylifera

[BigFrond]

This looks like damage from the previous winter freeze.  If you look carefully are the new fronds are fine.  The ones with the damage are near the bottom.  This is the same problem with my royals.  There was no freeze here in SoCal last year.  However, my guess was that the weather was quite cold and the leaves got burn, which is the case with mine.  I also think the palm was acclimating to the weather.  A few of my fronds are still in the same condition as yours.  Your palm will not die.  I wouldn't be surprise if your royal go through some leaf burn again this winter.

[Ken Johnson]

Yep I still think its physical but if the new leaves go bad in a week or so it could be a root problem. Do you use a weed eater? Are there other plants, like grass, around the base?

[lpandroc]

just some small shrubs about a foot tall 36 inches from the base..thye are plum...very non invasive and fragile shrub..i dont think that has an effect

weed eater gets nowhere near the palm

someone has to know whats up?...as I said before..the new frond look like crap pretty quick

[cryptobionic]

I'm also guessing a problem below the soil level. Assuming you water and fertilize on a regular basis, it might be salt water intrusion. I've seen the same symptoms on Royals which were planted near the East Coast of Florida where salt water has recently seeped into the aquifer and the St. John's river basin ; Royal Palm roots are known to go pretty deep. Just a guess.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

It sure looks like potasium deficiency to me.  If you put down too much N, Mag and Mn, you will set up an imbalance and create a worse problem.

You need to fert with 8-2-12-4 (mag) with ALL elements releasing at the same rate.

Jerry

[Mike Evans]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Oct. 10 2006,18:06)

QUOTE

It sure looks like potasium deficiency to me.  If you put down too much N, Mag and Mn, you will set up an imbalance and create a worse problem.

You need to fert with 8-2-12-4 (mag) with ALL elements releasing at the same rate.

Jerry

I would have to agree with jerry about an imbalance or something terribly wrong with your soil.  Could you be over fertilizing??  What did the soil look like when you planted this?  Royals are pretty tollerant of soil conditions, but if the guy that owned the house before you changed his motor oil there.....  Don't give up on royals yet.  Come down to my garden in Seminole & have a look of what you can do.  I have ~ 75 mature royals to name a few.  I also have a nursery with some choice items you my be interested in.

[Jeff Searle]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Oct. 10 2006,18:06)

QUOTE

It sure looks like potasium deficiency to me.  If you put down too much N, Mag and Mn, you will set up an imbalance and create a worse problem.

You need to fert with 8-2-12-4 (mag) with ALL elements releasing at the same rate.

Jerry

I agree with Jerry. You are definetly showing the classic signs of potassium def. Yellow and orange spotting, and always on older lower leaves.

[lpandroc]

the only thing that was there was a 20 ft oak that was cut down  and de-stumped prior to the planting of the Royal...does this help?...maybe I need to add something to the soil to kickstart it...we cant give up guys... i know it can be fixed..i would hate to have this thing tugged out of the ground as dead

as far as over fertilizing...i dont think i am..im using lesco granular..that pink bag from the big box stores

mike I may be interested in a few small royals for the side of my house..what size and $$$

maybe in the spring i can come down and check tham out..how can i get in contact w/ you

[lpandroc]

s oof it is a pottasium issue..how can i fix it?...where can i get potassium sulfate or is there another way to address this with ingredients from my area stores

[Mike Evans]

Lance, Sent you a PM.

[spockvr6]

(lpandroc @ Oct. 10 2006,15:46)

QUOTE

nope...not frost...new spears are getting like this quick

Of course not...its only October!

I was meaning to imply that the leaves look burned, as they would from a frost.  

Since it cant be cold damage this early in the year, it has to be some other deficiency IMO.

[spockvr6]

(lpandroc @ Oct. 10 2006,19:02)

QUOTE

mike I may be interested in a few small royals for the side of my house..what size and $$$

Lance-

Make sure you plant these palms in semi-protected locations.  Short of being on the Gulf, or Lake Tarpon, in our neck of the woods, these palms will need every advantage they can get.  If I remember correctly you live in east Palm Harbor over off of McMullen Booth and not near downtown Palm Harbor (near Alt. 19)?

[BS Man about Palms]

May find some good info here:

http://www.lutzcorp.com/palmtrees/

[lpandroc]

Larry...you are right..across eastlake rd from lake tarpon

[Kris]

Dear Ipandroc  

i had a similar problem with my areca palms,

but the problem was caused by me !

iam a fan of chemical fertilizers and my first usage

i did not know that i should not use in hot seasons and

use it close to the palm stem and i forgot to water the

plant throughly_in a weeks time gradually the leaves

began to dry-up as seen in your royal palm stills.

but luckly it started to rain and now it is slowly recovering.

if this is not your case then the palm lacks micro-nutrients

& the regular N-p-k Stuff. feed it and water it throughly.

i hope your palm will recover as quick as possible.

love,

Kris.

[redant]

(BS, Man about Palms @ Oct. 10 2006,20:47)

QUOTE

May find some good info here:

http://www.lutzcorp.com/palmtrees/

They sell a good K spike that should help if that's the problem. Other companies including lesco carry potassium & magnesium combo produts that should help. Problem is you will not find them at the big box stores. Lesco usually has warehouses in most towns where you can buy directly from. Prices are no better but you can find produts like the one I mentioned.

[Davidl]

Looks like potasium deficiency to me too. I have seen it on other palms here in florida and they look just like that.

[DoomsDave]

(Jerry@TreeZoo @ Oct. 10 2006,18:06)

QUOTE

It sure looks like potasium deficiency to me.  If you put down too much N, Mag and Mn, you will set up an imbalance and create a worse problem.

You need to fert with 8-2-12-4 (mag) with ALL elements releasing at the same rate.

Jerry

I agree with Jerry, particuarly since he's familiar with FL.

It doesn't look like any kind of insect I've seen, nor does it look like fungus.

dave

[cfkingfish]

Can you get a picture of the base of the trunk?

Also, are the yellowing of leaves random or does it only happen on old fronds/new fronds?

[SunnyFl]

(lpandroc @ Oct. 10 2006,16:51)

QUOTE

I should of went with a Phoenix Dactylifera

No, actually that may have been worse.  Check out the posts in the "Yellowing Canary's" in the Soils, Fertilizers, Pests and Other Problems forum - dactyliferas and CIDPs are apparently having trouble in various places all around FL, although no one's certain about the cause.  

I know this year, I've had more trouble with serious deficiencies - mostly potassium given the orange-ish spotting - than in prior years, have needed to use more fertilizer.  Something's up - we're seeing this all aound here.  Davidl mentions he's noticed it, too.

Personally, if Jerry and Jeff say it's a lack of potassium, I think we can be assured that's what it is.  I just don't understand why this year, in particular, it should be worse than before, but it is.  Dunno - maybe due to nutrients leeching out of the soil faster due to all the rains of the last 2 years.

[spockvr6]

Lance -

If it is of any consolation, out of the 6 Royals I have, one of mine is showing similar signs to your subject Royal.  Its not quite as severe, but the same thing is occuring.

I fertilize, mulch and water my Royals heavily, so I am surprised that one is acting this way.  But, as Jerry mentioned above, I suppose that I may have overdone it a bit and made the K harder for the palm to take up.   I have made a point of applying lots of dolomitic lime (very heavy in Mg) and between so much of that and perhaps too much N, I have created an imbalance.