Joplin, MO = Zone 11

[osideterry]

Last Summer I was back in my home town, visiting a family member in the hospital. I was on Joplin Street, one block off main, when I had to pull the car over and stop. Cocos were in front of this guys house.

Joplin, Missouri is 6B in a good winter.

[paulgila]

those gotta be in pots.no way could cocos & adonidia/veitchia survive in MO. ???

[osideterry]

I didn't have my camera at the time, so my brother took new photos last week. Those are the ones posted here.

Some guy owns an entire city block, and is populating it with old train cars and tropical palms. I drove through the alley for a different angle. Two landscapers were putting a Cuban Royal palm in the ground. I talked with the couple, a man and women in their 30s, white, english speaking and college educated. There employer was having them plant the adonidias and royals, but leaving the cocos in boxes. (I suppose he'll have them painting the roses red also) Yes they were aware it was a gamble, but they were going to use winter protection.

If your in Joplin, the address is 1801 Joplin St.

[LA PALM BOY]

SOMEONE'S Kookoo for Cocos...or just plain Kookoo...

[Joe palma]

No doubt a gamble! Darn near a losing proposition.

They could move the cocos into a greenhouse, but that will cost them. The stuff in the ground would need some protection structure built around them. How do you do that on the Royals????? I say they are goners.

[osideterry]

My theory is the guy is retired railroad tycoon. He loves the tropics but won't leave home. He buys mature palms every year, puts some in the building in post 1, the rest die. He buys new ones again next year. I have to wonder what it costs to truck boxed cocos to Missouri every year. The guy had 6 or 8 of them around.

[PalmGuyWC]

Some people are just plain crazy.

Dick

[paulgila]

we can't even grow that in socal--how could it survive in MO in zone -12z without wintering in doors?

remember what bobby in ny used to do to protect his palms?(where has he been,anyways?)

[LJG]

(PalmGuyWC @ Sep. 14 2007,13:36)

QUOTE

Some people are just plain crazy.

.... and I like it!  

Terry, I could not imagine the surprise to be in your hometown, being a palm nut and running into that in a 6B.

[LA PALM BOY]

They HAVE TO be moving those in during the winter...then again...

(Article from Albuquerque Newspaper):

"Betting and Losing on Global Warming"

Posted on: 01/06/07

NOB HILL--We noticed the palm trees on Central Ave. a couple weeks ago. They are in front of a new Mexican restaurant, Villa del Mar, just about to open right next door to the New Chinatown. "Must be mighty sturdy palm trees," I ventured to MaryAnn at the time.

"Are they crazy?!" I should have said. It is not a pleasant sight--the four dead palms a testament to a premature bet on global warming."

I passed by this restaurant in July when I was back in Albuquerque...

...so what did they do? Plant more Queen Palms, of course!! :laugh:

Doug

[paulgila]

someone said it before in a post of months past:

"perennials".

[MattyB]

Uh, you mean annuals?  Go read (slapping face with white cloth glove).

[paulgila]

thanks for the correction,matt.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Paul you said it, Bobby is certainly the authority...  He must be moving...  I'm sure he could keep those babies alive in the horrific ice storms of Southern Missouri's winter...  I don't think Trachies would even grow there without coming in for some of the winter...

[aztropic]

I think palms are being used more and more as annuals.Hundreds are planted annually in Ocean City, Maryland.Two weeks ago,I was in Minneapolis, MN and ran across this one.

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

[LA PALM BOY]

I think palms are being used more and more as annuals.Hundreds are planted annually in Ocean City, Maryland.

Actually, Trachies and some Sabals might actually make it there..

[www.dadluvsu.com]

O man, the Royal Princess (I think that is what they called that hotel on 92nd street in OC, kinda caddy cornered from the mall?) has been planting palms since they built it 19-20 years ago...  Palms as annuals is no new thing...  Would it just be cheaper to keep them potted and bury them in the pots during the warm seasons and then bring them into the lobbies during the cold seasons?  I love em' too much to knowingly kill them.  I think I just admitted to being a tree hugger...

[osideterry]

If I lived in Joplin I'd be trying a Butia. The in-town heat island would push you to 7a. My collection would also include Sabal birmingham and texensis, Nannorhops ritchiana, Chamaerops, Needle palms and Trachies. All would need protection.

Next time I go back, I'm knocking on the door and talking to the owner. It would have to be an interesting conversation.

[palmislandRandy]

Rent a palm!..............mmmmmmmmmmmm               Randy

[Tassie_Troy1971]

If those palms are not brought inside for winter - what a waste !  There is no way winter protection or otherwise that a palm could survive in that winter climate (maybe a needle palm )

What the hell maybe i should try a cocus down here in a corner against 2 rendered walls keep the soil dry in winter etc ! Hobart  Tasmania is like key west compared to Missouri our record low is 27 F .

[NBTX11]

(osideterry @ Sep. 14 2007,21:42)

QUOTE

If I lived in Joplin I'd be trying a Butia. The in-town heat island would push you to 7a. My collection would also include Sabal birmingham and texensis, Nannorhops ritchiana, Chamaerops, Needle palms and Trachies. All would need protection.

Next time I go back, I'm knocking on the door and talking to the owner. It would have to be an interesting conversation.

Correct, Joplin is probably a borderline zone 7a.

As warm as you can get by MO standards.

2006 Arbor day map shows it as right on border of 6b/7a.  Plus they are reasonably hot in the summer.

I'm thinking you could grow trachys and hardy sabals, without protection, most of the time.  Let's remember Sabal minors are native to southern Oklahoma.  Joplin is what a few miles from NE Oklahoma.

[surgeon83]

I grew up in St. Louis and when I visited this summer, I went to a local nursery to check out their stock.  They had cocos, foxtails, adonidias, etc. but nothing even remotely hardy (well, palm-wise, of course  ::  ).  I asked the lady if they ever considered stocking needle palms, since those might actually stand a chance through their usually 6a/b winters, and she replied that when they used to stock them, nobody ever bought.  She also said that she planted a trachy in her own yard that had a tough time last winter after the weight of ice and snow broke the fronds off.  

I cannot believe that guy is planting royals in Joplin!  Those buggers have to cost close to a grand apiece shipped up there     Heck, I consider them (and they truly are) a gamble HERE, where we have several 30'+ specimens that have been around for a decade.  

Somebody needs to talk to him about needle palms, etc. and perennial bananas (which I have even seen in STL).  

Cool thread  :cool:

[kylecawazafla]

I think I'm gonna start a business renting these palms out, raking in the money, collecting them before winter, and then renting them out again

[Tyrone]

WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYYY

[macario]

Its funny your on this topic. There has been 2 place here in the city of chicago that have been renting out palms for a few years now. Also they sell alot outright and they just let them die in the winter and buy more in the spring. There is one place on the beach that has cocos washys queens and phoenix's about 45 palms and at the end of the season there left out to die.

[Ken Johnson]

Let them die!

No problem. Many palm growers, even some that are members of Palmtalk, ship up North every Spring. They make a living out of it.

If there wern't palm lovers like the guy in Joplin just think how much less exciting gardening would be.

There is another industry down here in South Florida that sends hunderds of thousands of Hibiscus up North as well as many other plants that die every Fall. No one thinks this is crazy. It is just a fad that the growers have inspired by making the plants available, Same with the palms. Millions of dollars are spent on plants that die in a few months, no big deal.

Just keepin' them Yankees happy!

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I agree with you on that one Ken...  Just so long as they don't get the bright idea to do it with stuff thats endangered...

[PalmGuyWC]

Sorry folks, if I lived in Joplin MO, I'd be looking for a warmer climate. I vowed when I was a young man that I'd never live any place where palms didn't grow, and that's the way it's been. I was born in S. Georgia, (a few palms) lived in Miami for several years, (lots of palms) and lived most of my life in N. Calif., (enough palms to keep me happy). I'm sorry, but palms are NOT annuals! I would never knowingly plant a palm, which should have a nice long lilfe, in a climate where I knew it didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of living. OK, I have one Caryota which I know won't last long here, but it was given to me, and I had one once before that lived for several years.

We all push the edge, but there are limits to being practicle and conspicious consumption.

Dick

[NBTX11]

(PalmGuyWC @ Sep. 15 2007,09:24)

QUOTE

Sorry folks, if I lived in Joplin MO, I'd be looking for a warmer climate. I vowed when I was a young man that I'd never live any place where palms didn't grow, and that's the way it's been. I was born in S. Georgia, (a few palms) lived in Miami for several years, (lots of palms) and lived most of my life in N. Calif., (enough palms to keep me happy). I'm sorry, but palms are NOT annuals! I would never knowingly plant a palm, which should have a nice long lilfe, in a climate where I knew it didn't have a snow ball's chance in hell of living. OK, I have one Caryota which I know won't last long here, but it was given to me, and I had one once before that lived for several years.

We all push the edge, but there are limits to being practicle and conspicious consumption.

Dick

Exactly, if I can't walk out my front door and down my street and see palms (which I can here) then I don't want to live there.

[Matt N- Dallas]

I know sabal minor and r. hystrix can grow in Missouri as I have had them growing in Kansas City- z6 for a number of years.  S. minor has also been growing in Wichita, KS long term.  I would try s. lousiana and s. 'birmingham' in Joplin as there is a trunked s. 'birmingham' growing in Tulsa, OK since the 1980's.   I have found the duration of cold weather to be more limiting in Mo. than the ultimate low temps in terms of cold damage to palms.

[Guest Keith in Zone 9]

I grew up in Belleville, IL just southeast of St Louis.  During the arctic winters in the late 70's and the 80's, I don't think Sabal minor or R. hystrix would have done well.  I lost S. minor those years.  However, people often overestimate the cold in that part of the country.  Certainly they've had zone 5 winters, but they also have zone 8 winters.  This wide variation is due to the continential climate.  R. hystrix in a good site might just last a good while.  I sent one back to S. Illinois this past March and the plant went through the terrible freezes in April without a scratch.  Certainly couldn't say that about the "hardy" plants native to the area.  They were really scorched.  Missouri's climate will not support Coconuts any time soon, but it's not the north pole either.  In the last 10 years, St Louis hasn't dropped below zero very much, if at all.  All that said, I hated the cold enough to make my way to Florida!

[surgeon83]

I just bought a trachy for next to nothing that I was thinking about having my family in St. Louis try on the south side of their house.  Would it even stand a chance?  How about if it had a little clear roof-only built over it to keep snow and freezing rain off?

Or should I just keep it with me?

PS- I have never personally seen any palm of any hardiness growing anywhere in Missouri.  And I don't have access to R. hystrix.  My lawn is made up partly of S. minor, but they are hard to transplant.  I ought to give it a try though.

PS- my mom has been growing a crape myrtle on the south side of the house for several years- last I saw it was 8-9 feet tall.  The tips freeze back in winter, but not the main trunk.

[osideterry]

St Louis? Rhapidphylum hystrix and Trachycarpus fortunei are worth trying, and would stand a better chance if given protection. They are both supposedly harder from 0F to -10F.

I go to Joplin once a year. I'm definitely paying that place another visit.

[NBTX11]

Joplin is probably warmer on average than many of you realize.  Much wamer than KC or STL.  It's basically in Oklahoma or Arkansas for all practical purposes.  You wouldn't think someone was nuts for trying to grow hardy palms in OK or AR, would you, yet it's only a stones throw away from there.  I bet most winters it doesn't drop below single digits F.  Cold, I know, but not totally out of the question for Trachys, etc.  Doug in NM grew one in ABQ NM and it isn't any colder than there.  There are a lot of guys growing sabals in Oklahoma.

[Alicehunter2000]

Insane in the Membrane...........Insane got no brain!