New Dypsis Purchase - possible hybrid - let me know what you think

[Hilo Jason]

Hey Everyone,

Last week I was at a great local nursery called Rancho Soledad and I stumbled across what I think is a great find. It had just come in on a shipment of stuff from Hawaii. I tagged the plant immediately and was able to go pick it up today.

It was labeled as Dypsis Onilahensis which I'm pretty sure its not. It was on a pallet with Dypsis Lanceolata and Dypsis Plumosa, which I know it's not. It is tristichous and it has a large flared base of the trunk that has a lot of white on it. So at first I thought it was Dypsis Madagascariensis. But the leaflets are not like Madagascariensis, they seem more like the shape and look of Dypsis Decaryi.

Here's a picture of the entire plant after I unloaded it from my truck in the shade of my back deck.

I then moved it into more sun to get some better pictures.

Here's looking straight at the center of the plant so you can see the tristichous leaf pattern it holds:

Here's another overall shot with my wife and yard protector for scale:

Here's a shot looking down at the leaflets:

Here's another shot looking down, but this time with all the leaves:

Here's a look at the growing point with some white coloring and a bit of orange fuzz:

And here's a look at the base of the palm which is what caught my attention at the nursery (filling up most of the 15 gallon pot):

And here's a picture of a Cibotium that is the reason I went to the nursery originally. This will be planted up against my house in a nice corner house planter. Will probably plant it this weekend. The branches are tied up in this picture, but it has a really nice shape to it and was a great deal for the price.

With my wife for scale and another garden protector (you don't mess with a pitbull, boxer, coyote mix!)

[Stevetoad]

its whatever your dog says it is...gulp

[Mandrew968]

Hybrid is probable--the trunk and faint reddish color speak Dypsis sp.bejofa--which it could be but not in perfect health. I trust you'll be planting her soon... nice palm, Jason!

[LJG]

Rancho has been bringing those in for a few years now. They called them Mahajunga's (Madagascariensis type) when I bought one. Pretty sure seed came from Marcus. What ever it is, mine did not like winter. I am giving it one more winter then trashing it if it yellows and browns profusly again in winter.

[Matt in SD]

I would have said D ambositrae.

[LJG]

I would have said D ambositrae.

At first the leaves looked that way, but the other parts show it not to be. Here is a common characteristic with the Rancho Ambo's they sell.

[LJG]

Here is my plant I bought as Dypsis mahajanga from Rancho. I have no idea what it really is only what I bought it as. I think that might be the same plant you have. This is what it looks like after a winter.

[Hilo Jason]

Len,

Thanks for posting those pictures of yours. It definitely looks similar in a lot of ways. I'll have to keep the poor-wintering in mind when I plant this thing and try to find a place for it in my yard that offers it some protection. I'll be wishing us both luck on these!

Jason

[BS Man about Palms]

Is that too small for the lucabensis type?

[LJG]

Len,

Thanks for posting those pictures of yours. It definitely looks similar in a lot of ways. I'll have to keep the poor-wintering in mind when I plant this thing and try to find a place for it in my yard that offers it some protection. I'll be wishing us both luck on these!

Jason

When I first planted in spring of 2010 it had a powder white stem and really colorful crownshaft like yours. I think the dry air and full sun location changed that. Mine is fully exposed and suffered. Another friend who got one put his in half day sun and his really didn't like the cold either. I am talking about 35 as low. So no freeze or frost. Who knows, maybe these just take a long time to harden off.

[Hilo Jason]

Thanks Len. I hope they do eventually harden off, they are great looking palms. We shall see I guess. Thanks for all the input.

[Gtlevine]

Dypsis mahajunga as Len stated, RSN has been bringing these in for several years.

Gary

[Hilo Jason]

Thanks Gary. Do you happen to have one of these, or have you ever tried one at your place?

[Gtlevine]

No, I collect true hybrids for the most part. Of the pure species I love leptocheilos, must have eight or nine of those, plus various others, but Lens majajunga seems to be doing well.

[MattyB]

Interesting. I'm guessing pembana x madagascarensis.

[Gtlevine]

It's not a hybrid Matty, the same plant came from every seed and they all look the same.

[LJG]

No, I collect true hybrids for the most part. Of the pure species I love leptocheilos, must have eight or nine of those, plus various others, but Lens majajunga seems to be doing well.

Well as usual it can never be simple. The first round of majajunga I got 6 years ago from Rancho is a different form. It has lime green crownshafts and thin leaflets - more true to what I have seen in many other gardens as majajunga. This includes Steve's big monster one he has posted pics of. My three of those kind do alright in winter. This new majajunga thing struggled last year. Both in my garden, Jeff's and a few others. So lets see what happens this year.

[Hilo Jason]

Len & Gary - thanks for the input. I've always heard that the Madagascariensis type has a lot of variety so what you guys are saying makes total sense.

[MattyB]

This looks nothing like my d mahajanga...

[Walter John]

I beg to differ with some of you and agree yet again with the ID king MattyB of Manambe Sloovakia.

You see, this hybrid was getting around in Aus as well, I had one and so did a few other well known palm people. It is a Dypsis hybrid, cross between the madagascariensis lucubensis form and Dypsis cabadae. It grows very quick and should be clumping by now really.

[Hilo Jason]

Hey Wal & Matty, thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

[Gtlevine]

Here's the thing Wal, Rancho Soledad has been bringing those in for several years and they all came from the same seed batch and all look pretty much the same. No way do you end up with all hybrids, so it is a true species. Maybe it's not Mahajunga but it came in as that seed, but not a hybrid.

[MattyB]

I finally was able to view these pics on my computer, not my phone like before, and after hearing Gary's argument for this being a true species, I'm starting to lean more towards something in the D. madagascarensis complex. Some of these D. mads go as far as being completely regular all the way to fully plumose, and of course, some clump and some are solitary, so they are wildly variable. That said, my Dypsis mahajanga, small as it may be, is showing very plumose leaflets and clumping even before there is any above ground stems. I don't know if you're just mispelling Mahajanga by calling it Mahajunga, but these seem to be two different palms. So easy to figure out these things.

[Walter John]

Here's the thing Wal, Rancho Soledad has been bringing those in for several years and they all came from the same seed batch and all look pretty much the same. No way do you end up with all hybrids, so it is a true species. Maybe it's not Mahajunga but it came in as that seed, but not a hybrid.

The curious world of Dypsis..The one in the first set of pictures is a hybrid (post #1), if my name ain't Watty O'Diamond.

The other one posted (post #7) is a different palm, the curious world of Dypsis just gets curiouser ?.

[LJG]

Here's the thing Wal, Rancho Soledad has been bringing those in for several years and they all came from the same seed batch and all look pretty much the same. No way do you end up with all hybrids, so it is a true species. Maybe it's not Mahajunga but it came in as that seed, but not a hybrid.

The curious world of Dypsis..The one in the first set of pictures is a hybrid (post #1), if my name ain't Watty O'Diamond.

The other one posted (post #7) is a different palm, the curious world of Dypsis just gets curiouser ?.

Hey Wal, why don't you trust the people that actually own these plants and that have bought them. The plant in post 7 looked similar to the one in post 1 in spring of 2010 - before it started sending out ugly deformed leaves after sun burn and winter exposure. Then trust also the person that got Jerry most his Dypsis seed for Rancho said that the seed was bought as Mahajanga and that is what Jerry brought these in from Hawaii as. Is it really the same Mahajanga as others have bought before elsewhere? Nope - not from what I have seen. But as a reference point at least the correct name the plant was sold as is a good start. In time if it is indeed a hybrid, even better for me and others with this plant. Another thing to point out is Jerry is a grower so he does not get onesies.

[LJG]

It is a Dypsis hybrid, cross between the madagascariensis lucubensis form and Dypsis cabadae. It grows very quick and should be clumping by now really.

I have this very plant of which you speak and have posted pics here. Mine has not clumped and is a fat single as is another persons in Florida I got mine from years back - who got them direct from Oz originally. That plant and the one here are not the same thing IMHO. The powered white trunk is the first give away to me. The Luc x Cab is a darker green with no powered white. The second thing i have noticed is the leaflets are on one plain on that cross. This plant it is not. Anyway, here is the pic of mine. It also shows Petes, which seems to sucker, but later in life. So maybe mine will someday too?

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=28535&view=findpost&p=465050

Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[richnorm]

I would have said D ambositrae.

At first the leaves looked that way, but the other parts show it not to be. Here is a common characteristic with the Rancho Ambo's they sell.

Len, Are those ramenta? I know ambo's are supposed to have grey ramenta but I have not seen and example with them, until now?!

cheers

Richard

[Tassie_Troy1971]

A great looking Palm Jason !

I also noticed the rockwork in the background planter very immpressive .

Love tree ferns i have 9 different species down here but not the Hawaiian one . Have you tried to get Cyathea medullaris from New Zealand ?

Troy

[LJG]

I would have said D ambositrae.

At first the leaves looked that way, but the other parts show it not to be. Here is a common characteristic with the Rancho Ambo's they sell.

Len, Are those ramenta? I know ambo's are supposed to have grey ramenta but I have not seen and example with them, until now?!

cheers

Richard

Yes Richard. Well I think anyway. I can never remember what the difference between tomentum, ramenta and indument are on a palm. Seems botanist use them interchangeably? .

[richnorm]

I would have said D ambositrae.

At first the leaves looked that way, but the other parts show it not to be. Here is a common characteristic with the Rancho Ambo's they sell.

Len, Are those ramenta? I know ambo's are supposed to have grey ramenta but I have not seen and example with them, until now?!

cheers

Richard

Yes Richard. Well I think anyway. I can never remember what the difference between tomentum, ramenta and indument are on a palm. Seems botanist use them interchangeably? .

Thanks Len. Well, I'm certainly no botanist! To me ramenta are the hairs/fluff on/near the mid-rib and the other terms refer to colour or texture elsewhere. Has that plant always had the grey ramenta or has this recently developed? Do you have a pic of the whole plant?

Anyone else got ambos with ramenta? Mattyb?

cheers

Richard

[LJG]

Richard, it developed it. One I have had since a seedling and now that is getting some good size is developing it too. When back from Sea World I will get some pics.

[Gonzer]

[Mandrew968]

It is a Dypsis hybrid, cross between the madagascariensis lucubensis form and Dypsis cabadae. It grows very quick and should be clumping by now really.

I have this very plant of which you speak and have posted pics here. Mine has not clumped and is a fat single as is another persons in Florida I got mine from years back - who got them direct from Oz originally. That plant and the one here are not the same thing IMHO. The powered white trunk is the first give away to me. The Luc x Cab is a darker green with no powered white. The second thing i have noticed is the leaflets are on one plain on that cross. This plant it is not. Anyway, here is the pic of mine. It also shows Petes, which seems to sucker, but later in life. So maybe mine will someday too?

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=28535&view=findpost&p=465050

Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Can we go into further detail on what a "powered white trunk" is, and how to spot one? Thanks!

[Walter John]

Hey Wal, why don't you trust the people that actually own these plants and that have bought them.

Of course I do Len. It's just Dypsis Debating. I was thinking that it did have more white than the one I had, then again, that can be coerced. But oh those leaflets, they are identical to the mad x cab cross.

[LJG]

It is a Dypsis hybrid, cross between the madagascariensis lucubensis form and Dypsis cabadae. It grows very quick and should be clumping by now really.

I have this very plant of which you speak and have posted pics here. Mine has not clumped and is a fat single as is another persons in Florida I got mine from years back - who got them direct from Oz originally. That plant and the one here are not the same thing IMHO. The powered white trunk is the first give away to me. The Luc x Cab is a darker green with no powered white. The second thing i have noticed is the leaflets are on one plain on that cross. This plant it is not. Anyway, here is the pic of mine. It also shows Petes, which seems to sucker, but later in life. So maybe mine will someday too?

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=28535&view=findpost&p=465050

Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Can we go into further detail on what a "powered white trunk" is, and how to spot one? Thanks!

I figured you knew since you thought this was a Dypsis sp.bejofa.

[LJG]

Hey Wal, why don't you trust the people that actually own these plants and that have bought them.

Of course I do Len. It's just Dypsis Debating. I was thinking that it did have more white than the one I had, then again, that can be coerced. But oh those leaflets, they are identical to the mad x cab cross.

I obviously love "Dypsis Debating" and I do agree, it is very similar to mad x cab Wall. Like I said I don't know what this plant really is only what it is being sold as. I guess with so much variation amongst hybrids it could just be different looking then the mad x cab cross I currently have. IMHO this is a Madagascarensis type.

[LJG]

Thanks Len. Well, I'm certainly no botanist! To me ramenta are the hairs/fluff on/near the mid-rib and the other terms refer to colour or texture elsewhere. Has that plant always had the grey ramenta or has this recently developed? Do you have a pic of the whole plant?

Anyone else got ambos with ramenta? Mattyb?

cheers

Richard

Richard, here is the whole plant. The second pic is of another Ambo I have grown since seedling. The third shows the ramenta on it. The fourth pic is from the known true Ambo as it was hand collected by Bill and Pete in 2006. This one grows much slower then any of the others I have grown.

[richnorm]

Cheers Len, very nice!

Interesting difference in leaf form on those first two. Can't see the ramenta on shot three - should be grey hairs on the underside of the leaflets along the mid-rib. If you know Bill Beattie, send him a picture of the first two....

[Hilo Jason]

Len - thanks for posting those pictures of your Ambositrae, very nice! When I saw you out at JD Andersen a few months ago, I think you mentioned that what they had as Dypsis Kindreo is different than Ambositrae. Is that correct? I've bought a bunch of the JD Andersen 1 Gallons, so just curious if they will eventually look like these that you have posted.

[Mandrew968]

It is a Dypsis hybrid, cross between the madagascariensis lucubensis form and Dypsis cabadae. It grows very quick and should be clumping by now really.

I have this very plant of which you speak and have posted pics here. Mine has not clumped and is a fat single as is another persons in Florida I got mine from years back - who got them direct from Oz originally. That plant and the one here are not the same thing IMHO. The powered white trunk is the first give away to me. The Luc x Cab is a darker green with no powered white. The second thing i have noticed is the leaflets are on one plain on that cross. This plant it is not. Anyway, here is the pic of mine. It also shows Petes, which seems to sucker, but later in life. So maybe mine will someday too?

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=28535&view=findpost&p=465050

Anyway, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

Can we go into further detail on what a "powered white trunk" is, and how to spot one? Thanks!

I figured you knew since you thought this was a Dypsis sp.bejofa.

Was that a bad guess? I don't know Dypsis like you guys in California. I just have never seen that white on any of the madagascarensis types(granted I only have madagascarensis, from that complex). I remember seeing it on Bo's sp. bejofas, but I aknowledge you all's superior knowledge on Dypsis.