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Nigel

Changing face of palmtalk

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Carlo Morici

You are right, that is why we lack a real definition of success!   :laugh:

I did not meant I wanted to control the world  :P  

Ok, now we have gone off-topic again, our opinions and comments are on the previous page of this thread ???

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Walter John

(Carlo Morici @ Feb. 08 2008,10:21)

QUOTE
You are right, that is why we lack a real definition of success!   :laugh:

I did not meant I wanted to control the world  :P  

Ok, now we have gone off-topic again, our opinions and comments are on the previous page of this thread ???

This whole topic is off topic, if you ask me. Then again, nobody asked me.

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amazondk

Carlo,

I hope I was not misunderstood.  I was not making any value judgements about any ones character or what kind of people they are.  My only point was that being in Europe is a lot different than in the USA, or Brazil for that matter.  Maybe capabilities is the wrong word.  It probably more applicable to only say "the need to use other languages".  I agree with Keith's point of view.  I have nothing against making changes to accomodate as many people as possible.  But, from what I have seen said here that does not seem too likely.  From what I have noticed the majority of the people who participate in the various forums are from sub tropical or cooler climates and live in English speaking countries.  I have a hard enough time running my business in several languages.  I could not image to have to dedicate the time Dean is talking about to run a forum like this.

dk

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_Keith

Well, maybe yes and no.  

If we were to subscribe to evolution, one day someone would start a thread in, let's say in Spanish.  But it could be any language.  As far as I know this board has no regulation preventing that.  And the responses would come in Spanish, and this thread might have enough replies to sustain itself.  And then maybe more threads in Spanish might happen and sustain themselves.  And eventually there would be a call for a Spanish language forum.  I would see that as natural evolution.  

Kind of like the Ohana Nui, it was born because people kept inserting those kinds of posts into Discussing Palms and other forums.   Kind of the opposite of build it and they will come.   This is more like they are already here, we better do something to accomodate them before they wreck the place.  Creating that forum was natural evolution.

Just a thought

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Jeff Searle

After reading everyone's comments multible times, I feel were pretty damn lucky to have this forum to be able to share our thoughts and views. But to ask our moderator to spend more un-godly amounts of his OWN personal time to please 2-3 new languages is ridiculous. And who's to say that it will end there. What if for example the Thai people request that their main language be included. Would it be fair not to include them?

    I fully agree with what Keith just said, KEEP it SIMPLE. Enough said, I'm moving on.

Jeff

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putu enjula

Just wondering how well Google translator works....  Testing 1 2 3...

A chiedere il nostro moderatore di spendere di più-uno importi pietà del suo personale PROPRIE tempo per la preghiamo di 2-3 nuove lingue è ridicolo. E chi è a dire che essa finisca lì. Che cosa succede se per esempio il popolo Thai che la loro richiesta di essere inclusa la lingua principale. Non sarebbe giusto non includere loro?

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putu enjula

Dean, you better get busy!

:laugh:   :laugh:

Pour demander à notre modérateur de dépenser plus-piété, les montants de son temps personnel pour PROPRES s’il vous plaît 2-3 nouvelles langues est ridicule. Et qui est-à-dire qu'il va s'arrêter là. Et si par exemple le peuple thaïlandais demander que leur langue principale être inclus. Serait-il juste de ne pas les inclure?

Para pedir nuestro moderador a gastar más-divinos cantidades de su tiempo personal PROPIO 2-3 a favor de los nuevos idiomas es ridículo. ¿Y quién es para decir que se terminó ahí. ¿Qué ocurre si, por ejemplo, el pueblo tailandés solicitar que su idioma principal sea incluido. ¿Sería justo no incluir?

Um bitten unsere Moderator mehr un-göttliche Beträge von seinen eigenen persönlichen Zeit, wenden Sie sich bitte 2-3 neuen Sprachen ist lächerlich. Und wer ist zu sagen, dass es am Ende gibt. Was passiert, wenn zum Beispiel der thailändischen Menschen verlangen, dass ihre Hauptsprache einbezogen werden. Wäre es nicht fair, sie?

Para solicitar o nosso moderador de gastar mais un-admoestação montantes das suas próprias pessoais tempo para agradar 2-3 novas línguas é ridículo. E quem está a dizer que vai terminar aqui. E se, por exemplo, o povo tailandês pedir que a sua língua principal seja incluída. Seria justo para não incluí-los?

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PalmGuyWC

Nigel....You sure know how to throw a bucket of petrol on a fire, don't you? :) In only 5 days this has been one of the hottest topics on the board. I think you realize now how important your contributions are to PalmTalk. There is a lot of passion in some of the thoughts expressed, and that shows how valued PalmTalk is to all of us. I appreciate all the contributions everyone makes to this site. It's rather amazing that so many of us with diverse backgrounds and climates, and desires get along so well. Lets try to keep it one happy faimly.

Dick

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J. Ingram

Well said Dick... after all, we as palm addicts are all in the same "clique"!

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BS Man about Palms

(Nigel @ Feb. 07 2008,06:45)

QUOTE

(BS @ Man about Palms,Feb. 07 2008,09:31)

QUOTE
For a little levity,  Nigel, I am envious of your location for at least ONE reason!  You have access to any TVR car you want!!  (or more specificly, I would want)  :D

You`re kidding.....right ??

Like I said, I was bringing levity.

But I would like a newer, more powerful TVR than the one in my Avatar. :D

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PALM MOD

A few of my thoughts as this thread hopefully "rides into the sunset."

I appreciate, even ask for, suggestions on how to improve PalmTalk. I am constantly thinking and keeping PalmTalk in mind when I am exposed to new ways of doing things in Tech Land.

While digging up some usage statistics today, I noticed we had more activity than ever before in January, by quite a bit. This followed a steady increase over the previous year. So we (all us palm nuts) are doing something right. There is a lot to be said for the philosophy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I have seen quite a few other sites try to "fix" things that weren't really broken. There is a temptation, a desire, to try and make things better, only to possibly change what made it a success in the first place. As mentioned, simple is a good thing. At least it has worked well for us. So while I would never suggest refraining from attempted improvements, I would also caution against creeping change, especially when the Forum as a whole, appears to be working so well.

If we started instigating some of the things we discussed here, like adding a sub-forum for cold-hardy palms, and a couple of sub-forums for other languages, in a short time the Forum would be a very different one than what has worked well so far.

Do you really want to take the chance?

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Nigel

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 07 2008,20:45)

QUOTE
Nigel....You sure know how to throw a bucket of petrol on a fire, don't you? :) In only 5 days this has been one of the hottest topics on the board. I think you realize now how important your contributions are to PalmTalk. There is a lot of passion in some of the thoughts expressed, and that shows how valued PalmTalk is to all of us. I appreciate all the contributions everyone makes to this site. It's rather amazing that so many of us with diverse backgrounds and climates, and desires get along so well. Lets try to keep it one happy faimly.

Dick

Dick, in the last few days the change to this board has been unbelievable. There is new faces who never posted before, a couple of lost souls returned, and everybody is showing a level of awareness and keenness of others that never existed before. I am glad I started this thread, its even made me aware of some of my own failings.

I also agree with Carlo about the language thing, hopefully one day soon ,technology will exist that can perfectly translate the entire forum into ones language of choice so it becomes truly international.

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ghar41

(Nigel @ Feb. 08 2008,03:50)

QUOTE

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 07 2008,20:45)

QUOTE
Nigel....You sure know how to throw a bucket of petrol on a fire, don't you? :) In only 5 days this has been one of the hottest topics on the board. I think you realize now how important your contributions are to PalmTalk. There is a lot of passion in some of the thoughts expressed, and that shows how valued PalmTalk is to all of us. I appreciate all the contributions everyone makes to this site. It's rather amazing that so many of us with diverse backgrounds and climates, and desires get along so well. Lets try to keep it one happy faimly.

Dick

Dick, in the last few days the change to this board has been unbelievable. There is new faces who never posted before, a couple of lost souls returned, and everybody is showing a level of awareness and keenness of others that never existed before. I am glad I started this thread, its even made me aware of some of my own failings.

I also agree with Carlo about the language thing, hopefully one day soon ,technology will exist that can perfectly translate the entire forum into ones language of choice so it becomes truly international.

One look at my palm garden, and the way it's changed for the better, since the first day I started on this board tells the story on how valuable this palm board has been to me.  I have rare palms outside my door that I thought I would never even find seed of.  I have rare seedlings that I can share with others for free and people on the other side of the earth send me rare seeds for nothing but a good word.  I have information that isnt found in print anywhere in the world.  And it costs me nothing, but the cost of my broadband...what a deal.

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kakariki

(amazondk @ Feb. 07 2008,18:12)

QUOTE
People with money, and that includes the middle class, tend to hire someone to do everything and don't really pay much attention to what is going into the ground.  dk

Ain't that the truth.

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kakariki

Sorry, that was a bit abrupt. I'm glad Nigel started on this topic, I kind of felt the same way after looking for landscaping-oriented posts among the tidal wave of small palm growing advice. But I guess it's obvious now that a lot of people read what gets shown here even if they can't bring forth a reply. Now if one of you blimmin landscapers out there reading this who has dealt with Jubeas can kindly help me with transplanting problems, I might feel the same level of satisfaction that Nigel must be feeling.

Also we shouldn't knock Americans for not being as language-savvy as us products of the British educational system. What was life worth before rock n' roll?

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Neofolis

I've said before in other threads that the English are incredibly bad in their attitude to languages.  It's laziness/lack of necessity.  Despite our proximity to Europe, most English people adopt the  attitude that they can get by speaking English in other European coutries and for the most part they are right.  On the other hand most Europeans wouldn't get by in the UK, if they didn't speak English.

We are taking over the world through laziness.

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PalmGuyWC

Actually, Brent, the Beetles came from the UK......and look what they started. I would hate to think rock and roll is the only thing Americans can get credit for.  Another space shuttle was launched yesterday, and it's ho-hum news now, and once it was a huge news event.

It's a pitty that a second language is not a required subject in the American ed system, but until the floods of latins started spilling over our Southern borders we had no need for a 2nd language. Like you Brits, we are lazy when it comes to languages. There are entire areas of Miami and Los Angeles where only Spanish is spoken now........but by latins. Hell, our educational system is so poor that many native born Americans can't speak decent English, much less write it.

As for your Jubaeas, I have never moved one, but large ones seem to move eaisly. I suspect that a smaller one could be moved too, if it was done in the  early spring and with a good sized root ball.

Dick

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bgl

This whole language issue is just human nature. If you don't need to do something, chances are you won't do it. And the simple fact is of course that for the most part, as has been pointed out, you can manage with English almost all over the world. So, if English is your native language, not much incentive to learn another language. Plus, the expression "use it or lose it" really applies here. If you're taught a second language, no matter where you live, but you don't have the opportunity to speak that language on a fairly frequent basis, you WILL gradually lose the ability to communicate in that language. When I graduated (almost 48 years ago... :P ) I spoke better German than English. Today, after not having had the opportunity to speak German on more than a very few occasions, it would be impossible for me to engage in a conversation in German. Even though I know I could probably regain my knowledge in a couple of months of hard studying. But living in Hawaii, with not a single German in sight, that's not going to happen... :D

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Kim

(putu enjula @ Feb. 07 2008,17:35)

QUOTE
:laugh:   :laugh:

Pour demander à notre modérateur de dépenser plus-piété, les montants de son temps personnel pour PROPRES s’il vous plaît 2-3 nouvelles langues est ridicule. Et qui est-à-dire qu'il va s'arrêter là. Et si par exemple le peuple thaïlandais demander que leur langue principale être inclus. Serait-il juste de ne pas les inclure?

Angela, just for amusement, I put your French translation into a translator back into English.  This will help everyone appreciate the drawbacks of robotic translation:

To require of our regulator to spend more-piety, the amounts of its personal time for OWN please 2-3 new languages is ridiculous. And which be-with-statement which it will stop there. And if for example the people inhabitant of Thailand to ask that their principal language being included. Would it be right not to include them?

???  :D  :;):

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ghar41

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 08 2008,11:07)

QUOTE
It's a pitty that a second language is not a required subject in the American ed system

Right you are, Dick.  Here in California, students seeking a basic high school diploma have the option of taking foriegn language but can opt out and take other classes to meet the Visual/Performing Arts requirement.

For those students interested in heading to the State University system, however, we require 2 years of study in a foreign language, minimum.  If a student is headed to the University of California system we strongly recommend 3.

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Jerry@TreeZoo
Angela, just for amusement, I put your French translation into a translator back into English.  This will help everyone appreciate the drawbacks of robotic translation:

Kim,

Hee hee, my son tried to do his Spanish homework that way.  It didn't quite work out.

Jeremiah

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amazondk

(bgl @ Feb. 08 2008,11:25)

QUOTE
This whole language issue is just human nature. If you don't need to do something, chances are you won't do it. And the simple fact is of course that for the most part, as has been pointed out, you can manage with English almost all over the world. So, if English is your native language, not much incentive to learn another language.

Dean,

It seems that this thread's horse has not found the fork in the road to the sunset yet.

Bo,

You are very right about that.  My partner used to work for a multinational here and since he was the big boss used to do everything in English and did not really need anything other than basic Portuguese.  Now with our little company that is not possible and he has to struggle all the time.  In the mean time a lot of things end up on my plate due to the language situation in that I function as well in Portuguese as English.  On the other hand he knows a lot more about wood and saw mills so we balance out.  Here in Brazil if one is out of the Multinational sphere of business it is very difficult to function in anything but Portuguese.  Brazilians seem to understand Spanish pretty easily, but it is difficult to find one that speaks it, the if you don't need it why do it effect.  That is even true for example where I work a lot in Boa Vista where all our suppliers have a lot of business with Venezuela.  They just sort of spit out a Spanish sounding version of Portuguese.  The Venezuelan's tend to end up speaking more Portuguese in the end.  But, since the two languages are so similar they seem to compensate and get things done.   Then since our largest customer is in Holland I have a real hard time when they send me documents in Dutch.  Fortunately that does not happen much.  And, they all speak English very well anyway.   I guess that is enough about languages.  My final thought is that the world would not be as interesting place if we all spoke the same language.  Language is only one aspect of culture and all it's associated facets.

Happy Trails to this Thread.  As Roy Roger would say.

dk

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Zac in NC

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 04 2008,09:23)

QUOTE
It's always good to hear from our Aussie buddys (mates) and their sharp wit, and I wish we heard more from New Zealand, like how are the Parajubaeas doing down there guys? How about S. Africa? We never hear much from down there.

Dick

Yes, We had Brenda from NZ and Dennis from South Africe, but I haven't seen them much recently, but then again, I've been missing myself but that was because of some personal things in my life. I'm trying to be more active here again. I have noticed several people who have disappeared over the years, Diego who was in Chile for one. The board has changed over the years since I have been active on here, and on the prior 2 iterations of the forum. I personally miss the input from Bob Riffle, but that we cannot help.

Zac

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Zac in NC

(putu enjula @ Feb. 05 2008,05:32)

QUOTE

(Al in Kona @ Feb. 05 2008,02:06)

QUOTE
Most assuredly Kris, I would not like to see your posts decrease!!   Many times your name comes up at the PRAs we meet at and the TRUELY International input you bring is priceless!

PLEASE continue posting with wild abandon.

Kris - I totally agree with this.

Kris, I too agree with this!

I agree too. Don't stop posting.

Zac

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Nigel

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 08 2008,11:07)

QUOTE
Actually, Brent, the Beetles came from the UK......and look what they started. I would hate to think rock and roll is the only thing Americans can get credit for.  Another space shuttle was launched yesterday, and it's ho-hum news now, and once it was a huge news event.

It's a pitty that a second language is not a required subject in the American ed system, but until the floods of latins started spilling over our Southern borders we had no need for a 2nd language. Like you Brits, we are lazy when it comes to languages. There are entire areas of Miami and Los Angeles where only Spanish is spoken now........but by latins. Hell, our educational system is so poor that many native born Americans can't speak decent English, much less write it.

As for your Jubaeas, I have never moved one, but large ones seem to move eaisly. I suspect that a smaller one could be moved too, if it was done in the  early spring and with a good sized root ball.

Dick

I think the english are very much like the americans in that we expect everybody else to learn OUR language.

I am at least trying to make it 1 less englishman ,  by trying to learn portuguese and I wish I had done it earlier because its tough.

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Neofolis

I've just had a horrible thought.  Could it be that some of these people are no longer into palms?  I know that doesn't even bare contemplating, but what if it's true, maybe it could happen to more of us.

No, what am I thinking, that's just ridiculous.

It's strange though, I've always thought of myself as quite obsessive.  During my life I have been into things and, while I was into those things, I would give it everything I had, but then something new would come along, yet I really don't see how my fascination with palms could fade.  If the bug bites other people that same way as it has bitten me, there will always be a future for palms, the IPS and Palmtalk.

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gsn

The HORSES from the old age farms, continual care facilities,and horse mortuary, got together and put out a 2 line press release.

Please let us rest in peace.

Please do not ,kick, beat, or thrash,us any more! :;):

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Daryl

This board rocks! What a great meeting place for all of us palm lovers. As Dean mentioned earlier, it is increasing in popularity in it's current format.  I don't get to visit the board every single day due to other life commitments, but when I login all of the recent threads have moved in such a short time. Sometimes you have to go to page 3 after just a day or two because there are so many new threads or general activity on older threads. Nothing wrong with that, but it indicates just how healthy this forum is.

Perhaps the people that Nigel mentioned at the beginning of this post were burnt out, or maybe just disillusioned with the content and direction of the board, but if the bug has bitten deeply they will come back. If they don't then that is their loss.

I think Dean is doing a great job, and everyone that contributes here should be congratulated for making this such as interesting forum, no matter where you live and what you can grow. Admittedly I don't read every single Trachycarpus or Washingtonia post, but amongst the thousands of other posts there is plenty to interest me.

I still get a kick out of seeing what is grown elsewhere and how people do things differently in other parts of the world. This makes it truly international and is what really adds to the character of this forum.

Corey, re: the obsessive thing...I have seen so many people come into the local palm world who you could count as 'obsessive'. They appear with all guns firing, collect anything and everything, contribute to every palm related activity going, make their mark, and then just burn out. Then they disappear, never to be seen again, because they have found a new interest to keep them happy and accommodated. I think your bug has bitten a bit deeper than that as you are still here!

My US 0.16c worth...

Daryl

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Walter John
My US 0.16c worth...
:)

and well said Daryl, in fact it's one of the best if not the best and apt posts in this whole thread.

It gives the thread closure imo.

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Kris

Dear friends  :)

i happen to visit this site through google..since Carlo's wanted to see some palms with snow topping on them...here you go !

http://snowpalm.dyndns.org/eng/?palm.html

And kindly scroll till the bottom of the page,hope its of some use to memebers living in similar climatic conditions..

thanks & love,

Kris  :)

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putu enjula

(Kim @ Feb. 08 2008,08:47)

QUOTE

(putu enjula @ Feb. 07 2008,17:35)

QUOTE
:laugh:   :laugh:

Pour demander à notre modérateur de dépenser plus-piété, les montants de son temps personnel pour PROPRES s’il vous plaît 2-3 nouvelles langues est ridicule. Et qui est-à-dire qu'il va s'arrêter là. Et si par exemple le peuple thaïlandais demander que leur langue principale être inclus. Serait-il juste de ne pas les inclure?

Angela, just for amusement, I put your French translation into a translator back into English.  This will help everyone appreciate the drawbacks of robotic translation:

To require of our regulator to spend more-piety, the amounts of its personal time for OWN please 2-3 new languages is ridiculous. And which be-with-statement which it will stop there. And if for example the people inhabitant of Thailand to ask that their principal language being included. Would it be right not to include them?

???  :D  :;):

Which translator are you using?  I used google translator to translate that French translation back into English...  the first part is still silly but the second half is pretty close. :)

To ask our moderator to spend more-piety, the amount of his personal time to OWN please 2-3 new languages is ridiculous.  And who is to say it will stop there.

And if, for example, the Thai people request that their main language be included. Would it be fair not to include them?

Translators are pretty good at translating English into another language...  but the other way around...    not so good!!! :o

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amazondk

(Nigel @ Feb. 08 2008,16:26)

QUOTE
I am at least trying to make it 1 less englishman ,  by trying to learn portuguese and I wish I had done it earlier because its tough.

Nigel,

I have to say though that you have picked a beautiful language as far as I am concerned at least.  I love Brazilian Portuguese.  But, then again I love Brazil as well.  

As Jorge Ben Jor sings in has classic song Pais Tropical:

"Moro!

Num País Tropical

Abençoado por Deus

E bonito por natureza

(Mas que beleza!)"

I know you enjoy the south and the cooler climate palms.  But, if you ever get the urge to visit the hot part of the country and come up north I would love to show you a bit of Amazonia.

dk

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Carlo Morici

(putu enjula @ Feb. 09 2008,10:49)

QUOTE
Translators are pretty good at translating English into another language...  but the other way around...    not so good!!! :o

Oh no! It is even worse. Believe me. The Italian translation was a disaster  :laugh:  Automatic translations could start a war among peaceful countries!

When you translate the text back again to English, some translator's mistakes get fixed, paradoxically, so you don't notice how bad it was on the other language.

The main problems in Jeff's text were the expressions "un-godly" and "please 2-3".

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Carlo Morici

If this is the end, as some suggest, then it has been a big nice thread. We have had a lot of heavy palmtalking and nobody felt attacked I hope. Now we know a lot more about the forum and about our opinions.

.

We have heard lots of interesting speculation about why some people left this forum, such as the faster growth of other fora specialized in cold hardy palms or in languages other than English. We also considered that some people may simply loose the palm-fever after some months and step into a different interest. There is a general feeling that, while Palmtalk is growing larger we are losing something or someone.

I personally love the forum as it is, but I understand that this is just a start as the web is evolving. Changes are a must becase any IT format lasting more than a few years soon becomes a thing of the past. Forget about keeping as it is for more than a few years

Big changes in the forum should be proposed to the board of directors. I am not going to write any proposal about my multilingual ideas, because of laziness or lack of time (nobody will know exactly which), but I hope they will hear and think about it. I will not "beat the multilingual horse" any further but I am ready to work if other people join the challenge.

We also learnt about the IPS membership statistics, I am glad the forum is going up but I feel so sorry about the decreasing number of memberships. This points out that a deeper link should be built withing the forum and the society .

We have also seen a lot miscellaneous off-topicking, such as pictures of snowy palms or the translator trials. Opinions, projects and fun. A thread like this should be more often!

Carlo

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Nigel

(amazondk @ Feb. 09 2008,06:17)

QUOTE
I have to say though that you have picked a beautiful language as far as I am concerned at least.  I love Brazilian Portuguese.  But, then again I love Brazil as well.  

As Jorge Ben Jor sings in has classic song Pais Tropical:

"Moro!

Num País Tropical

Abençoado por Deus

E bonito por natureza

(Mas que beleza!)"

I know you enjoy the south and the cooler climate palms.  But, if you ever get the urge to visit the hot part of the country and come up north I would love to show you a bit of Amazonia.

dk

Don, anybody that visits Brazil can only fall in love with that country. The nature, the beauty, the people.

If I find a way to move there permanently then no doubt I will take you up on the offer.

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DavePoole

I first read this thread when there was just one page of replies.  As always, life gets in the way and despite every intention to keep a close watch it takes me until now at 6am on a Sunday morning before I get a chance to look in again.  Now we are 5 pages on and my goodness, Nigel certainly has stirred things up a bit.  

In many ways, I share his sentiments because there does appear to be a lot of 'chat' that centres around a few US states and a handful of palm genera with relatively little else getting a look-in.  This is disappointing because there are so many fantastic things to discuss even if we can't grow them in our gardens.  

However, having been on many forums and newsgroups over the past 12 - 15 years I find this type of gravitation does tend to happen and with non-plant related groups too.  It's not just a 'US' let alone an IPS thing and it can even occur in the UK surprisingly enough.  People do form cliques and (often, but not always) unwittingly shoulder others out.

It doesn't worry me so much because I'm more of a plant generalist with an interest in palms as opposed to an all-consuming passion for them. I'm quite happy to read or ignore depending upon the content of the thread.  I grew my first hardy palm in 1971, (unsurprisingly it was a Trachy f.), but my roots are in gardening and growing and I've been doing that since the late 1950's.  So I have a very broad interest with favourites amongst many different types of plants.

I take a back-seat in forums and groups nowadays mainly because I just don't have the time to keep on top of the threads - especially when they have strongly localised relevance.    Also, if someone posts remarks that more or less correspond with my way of thinking, I see little need for me to add what is effectively a "me too" comment.  So I suppose it falls upon those of us from elsewhere to add our slant on a subject if it appears to drift into the category of 'gossip over the garden wall'.  

It would be great for a more truly international exchange of experiences to be aired here, which happened a few years ago, but seems to have dwindled away in recent times.  It's good to see a few folks from Oz chipping in so well, but where are the guys from NZ, South Africa and Southern Europe?

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PalmGuyWC

Dave, I thank most of us share your views. I'm interested in all kinds of plants, but palms seem to be my main focus. Other plant famlies come and go but the palms are always there. They are a much more perminent fixture than some of the other groups of plants. I lost all my orchids in the 89 freeze and have very few now.

As you mention, it would be nice to hear more from our fellow palm growers in NZ, S. Africa and S. Europe. I don't think I've ever seen a thread from anyone from China or Japan and that would be nice too.

Dick

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Randy

Nigel,

I just read your message and quite honestly I'm not going to (this time) read all 5 pages of comments, but I'd like to respond to yours.

Living in the Arizona desert presents challenges that although are different from yours, they are very big to me as a palm gardener. I can tell you that the challenges where I live generally can be summed up by the following: If the below freezing winters don't kill 'em the scortching sun & dry air will fry 'em.

This adds a challenging element to my landscape setting goals that sometimes drives me crazy, but there's another side to that story. When I'm able to end up with a healthy looking palm or tropical that is not supposed to live here it brings a great sense of accomplishment that I get to enjoy with family and friends.

I personally like to see the postings from various zones and climates, even the more tropical ones. For one thing, I like to see the plantings because most on the board really do a good job re-creating a very natural looking landscape and that's my bag.

Sure, some of them live in a climate where you could throw a seed on the ground and watch it germinate - but I don't hold it against them :;):

Also, I for one have been really busy and have not had much to report or share as we near the end of winter here. But wait till the next few months and you'll see a lot of us zone 9's and below yaking up a storm as everything springs to life and the leaves start popping again!

I get a kick out of reading the California, Australia and Florida posts. Also, the people living in those places are more often than not paying a premium to live in their climates that would mean a pretty significant scaling of the quality of life I enjoy here where I am. I know I can do it if I want, but it would mean sacrificing livable square feet, lot size and disposable income to some degree, at least at this stage in my life.

Anyway - hang in there and I hope you agree that the open forum shouldn't limit participants by zone or region - that would put us all to zZZZzzzZZZzzZZZZ.

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