Help me decide

[Tag]

One of the local garden centers has 5 21 gallon dypsis decaryi on clearance for $60 bucks a pop.  They were originally 4 times that price.  I think that's a steal???  I see that most sites rate these as 9B.  What are the chances for long term survival in 9A Jax?  Another nursery has some 15 gallon dypsis lutescens on sale.  Sites vary considerably on their cold hardiness ratings.  Dave's Garden has them as 9A, but what are your experiences?

[Palmy]

I would say 9b over here in california, but in florida they may be able to survive 9A. Just protect them when it gets to cold. I say they can be unprotected until it hits 30 but at that size it may be able to take lower. It should come back quickly if you have a freeze.

[galveston1602]

In my experience, they will take a dry 25 (short term)

but a wet 34 will kill them.  Or maybe I just got a set of weaklings

[ghar41]

I have not had success with them here in Sunset 14 (9b.)  I tried them twice and lost them both during the winter.  The trunk softened and separated from the roots with a slight tug.  Just my belief, but I don't think they can handle their roots being both cold and wet.

[chris78]

Tag

I am a zone 9b and have both Dypsis you are interested in doing well for me. But zone 9a may be pushing the limited.

They LOVE heat and grow well in summer esp when the nights are warm.

I would place them in a warm location near a wall or building and not in the open. Dypsis lutescens does not like frost on its leaves. They are hardy with some overhead protection. In my garden its large shade trees. With the overhead protection which keeps frost off the leaves, they have tolerated mid 20's for D. lutescens to low 20's for D. decaryi...

When growing these palms do not fertilizer them past late summer and keep them on the dry side from mid fall through winter.

Understand they may not be long term palms in your area. So finding the most protected spot is VERY IMPORTENT!!!!!

Below is a picture of D. lutescens in my jungle garden with overhead protecton.... palm is on the left side in photo and its about 6 feet tall.

[Tag]

After some further reseach and your comments, I decided against the D. decaryi even though it is such a good deal.  I didn't want to spend $60 bucks on something that most likely won't survive and if it does, it'll look like crap most of the time.  I think $30 - $40 bucks is my limit for highly marginal palms.  I did pick up a few others this morning though:

A 3g Bizzie - $24.99

A 3g D. Lutescens - $9.99

3 3g C. Metallica - $13.99 each

And my first 3g S. romanzoffiana - $6.99

I have an arctic porion of my yard that I'm afraid to grow anything elso other than Sabal's, Queen's, Washy's etc. so I decided to pick up my first Queen Palm.  I think the Bizzie is a green fom as it is not showing the purple coloration that is common in the young silver form.  I would provide a picture, but my wife is out of town and she took the camera.  I know the green form are supposed to be less hardy, but I'm not necessarily sure that that's accurate.  A firend of mine has had a green form for a few years now with no issues that survived the mid - low 20's in Jan. '03 with no damage and no protection.  I think it's just a highly variable species when it comes to cold tolerance.

[DoomsDave]

Tag!

Nice to meet you!

Tell us more about you and your garden.

As for the Dypsis decaryi, I'd give one or two a try.  If they're nice big plants, 60 bones ain't bad -- I'm guessing, but I'd say they're about 6 feet (2 m) tall, planted?

I concur with glenn in Modesto, you HAVE to be very careful about drainage.  I'd plant one on a mound so it never stands in water.  If Jax has sandy soil that should help a lot.

Be prepared to possibly lose it in those nasty freezes like the winter of '89.

Anyway, how about some pictures of your garden?

dave

[Tag]

Dave,

My palm fascination began a little over two years ago.  I had just purchased a new home that severely needed some landscaping.  The landscape designer that I hired is a member of the NE Florida Palm Society and he wanted to use some palms in the design.  I started researching different species for my area and it was over.  I immediately caught palm fever from that point on and it's only gotten worse.  I fear that there is no cure!  I have lived in California or Florida all of my life and I guess that I had just taken palms for granted up until that point.  I have been collecting ever since and have collected the following in just over two years:

P. roebillini

P. sylvestris

P. reclinata (2)

B. nobilis (2)

H. forsteriana

D. lutescens

C. ochlandra

C. humilis

W. bifurcata

T. acanthacoma

L. saribus (2)

L. decora

L. chinensis

S. palmetto (4)

A. cunninghamiana (2)

S. coronata

S. romanzoffiana

C. Metallica (3)

C. nucifera (wish me luck!)

R. rivularis

T. fortunei

Also have:

Zamia furfuracea (3)

Cycas revoluta

Most are small, but you have to start somewhere.  I'll provide pictures once my wife gets back with the camera.

The D. decaryi were about 8 feet tall planted.  The soil here is sand, so there shouldn't be any drainage issues.  I guess I'm still wrestling with whether or not to get one.  

'89 was my first year in Florida.  I moved form Rancho Cucamonga, CA to Ocala, FL.  I remember it snowing in Ocala that year.  Let's hope that never happens again!

[Dave-Vero]

OK, here's my best guess as a former Jaxson (that's what the extinct Jacksonville Journal called the locals), long-time observer of Brevard, and present resident of Indian River County:

P. roebillini ?  It became popular in the past decade--no one tried it outdoors up there

P. sylvestris

P. reclinata (2)

B. nobilis (2)  Seems suitable for Orlando.  

Howea forsteriana dubious.

Dypsis lutescens  Does well here because it resprouts easily

Caryota ochlandra.  Native to Zone 10? China hardiness zones

Caryota humilis

Wodyetia bifurcata.  I dunno.  It's from the Cape York peninsula, which is pretty tropical.  John Dowe says it holds up well in wind, so I may get one for my yard.

Trithrinax acanthacoma?

Livistona saribus (2).  Kinda tropical

L. decora.  This and L. chinensis should do OK.

L. chinensis.  Try L. australis

S. palmetto (4)

A. cunninghamiana (2).  I wonder how long mine will last.

Syagrus coronata

S. romanzoffiana.  Lots of deaths in Orlando and Melbourne in the 1980s.  Also not good in wind.

Chamaedora. Metallica (3)  Grow a nice, thick live oak canopy for it.

C. nucifera (wish me luck!).  Not fully hardy here.

Ravenea rivularis

Also have:

Zamia furfuracea (3)

Cycas revoluta  We've lost our Cycas to the imported scale insect.  Maybe your cold winters will keep it out.

_

Dypsis decaryi looks like it's a feasible yard plant at least as far north as Titusville, Brevard County.  Of course it would be a safe bet here.

You need a nice Rhapidophyllum hystrix (preferably where its needles won't injure kids).  They grow faster than you'd be led to believe.  They like some extra water (a drainspout from the roof would be more than adequate).  Trachycarpus can do nicely in Jacksonville, even if they weren't planted much.  There's several species and it could be worth experimenting.  When happy, they can grow fairly rapidly.  Coonties are of course fully hardy, and will be prolific if you give them time.  

For a tropical look, some ground-dwelling bromeliads in my Jax yard survived the 1989 freeze without protection, as did a big clump of ginger (it simply froze to the ground every few years).  And you can find thriving old poinsettias in older parts of town.  The yearly game is to see whether they remain in good shape through Christmas.  Of course they freeze to the ground most winters.  It could be worth your while to obtain cuttings.  

Another idea for a tropical look is coral bean (Erythrina herbacea).  You can see it at Hanna Park.  On the coast near Sebastian Inlet, it makes substantial shrubs/small trees with lotsl of red flowers in late winter.  For you, it would be more of a woody perennial, freezing to the ground periodically.  It has a huge rootstock, so comes back quickly after cold/fire/storm damage.

The 1989 ice storm closed all the roads for two days.  Kids were using an old surfboard to sled the small hill that started at my house.

Collins Road, which runs parallel and just north of I-295 between Roosevelt and Blanding, passes through a swamp full of Sabal minor.  Impressive sight in the winter when the leaves are off the trees.

[SunnyFl]

(Dave-Vero @ Aug. 27 2006,17:53)

QUOTE

The 1989 ice storm closed all the roads for two days.  Kids were using an old surfboard to sled the small hill that started at my house.

Eeek - ice storm?  Was this in Jax - or in Brevard?

Lots of good ideas on your list for a nice tropical look in the northern parts of the state.

But about the D. decaryi - wouldn't that have trouble with rot and fungies, following a freeze up there?

[Jeff Searle]

Tag,

   I can't picture a Triangle growing in Jax.  Like I tell everyone.......if you don't see it growing in your area.......there's a reason why. And a year or two. maybe three dosen't count. If their planted out around town, establised for a period of time, then great.

[DoomsDave]

(Jeff Searle @ Aug. 28 2006,22:38)

QUOTE

Tag,

   I can't picture a Triangle growing in Jax.  Like I tell everyone.......if you don't see it growing in your area.......there's a reason why. And a year or two. maybe three dosen't count. If their planted out around town, establised for a period of time, then great.

Well . . . .

Not necessarily.

The nursery biz is conservative.  Adventurers are few.  (But cherished!)

Everyone said Royals wouldn't make it out here, but they do.

And, I guess, there's a flexible definition of making it?  

Hmm.

More thoughts from a tired brain later . . . .

dave