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buffy

European Fan Palm Growth Rate

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buffy

I know they grow EXTREMELY slow. What should be my time expectation for the central trunk to grow from a seedling to '6 tall? 10' tall? 15' tall? Let's assume fantastic growing conditions.

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sonoranfans

(buffy @ Jan. 10 2008,12:19)

QUOTE
I know they grow EXTREMELY slow. What should be my time expectation for the central trunk to grow from a seedling to '6 tall? 10' tall? 15' tall? Let's assume fantastic growing conditions.

be prepared to grow old on the way to even 10' tall trunks.  The slowest part will be from the seedling to the 15 gallon size.  My strap leafed seedlings(just putting out their first palmate leaves) get a new leaf every 5-6 months, while my juveniles(3-5' overall height) in the ground grow up to 10" a year.   My nurseryman says if you want faster height, keep only 2-3 suckering trunks, cut the others off early on as they appear.  This focuses the growing on the 2-3 main trunks more.  On the other hand, if you dont want too much height or want more screening, grow more trunks.  I have one that is 5'+ tall overall and nearly 10' wide with 6 trunks of 1' or more.  It will be a massive beast one day.

I suspect in texas you will be able to grow seedlings faster than here in AZ as mine must be in the shade house.  Our dry/hot will kill a chamaerops seedling in full sun pretty quickly.  My experience here is that chamaerops need to be a 5 gallon size to take considerable direct sun here without damage.

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BigFrond

I wouldn't say that this palm is slow.  It is at least moderate.  I planted a small 5 gal two years ago and it has about 1.5 ft of trunk already.  This palm doesn't need much water.  However, if you give it decent fertilizer and water, it will take off.

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buffy

Currently, mine has about an 8" main trunk and 3 suckers with 3" trunks.

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Tad

2 years from a gallon in the field, under ideal conditions these are steady growers, I wouldnt write them of as slow. longview gets a little chilly, but I would plant them and take good care of them, before you know it they will be big!!

post-18-1199994528_thumb.jpg

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Tad

4/5 years from a 1 gallon

post-18-1199994568_thumb.jpg

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Tad

these were planted to gallons from 38 ct plugs back on june 3rd of 07, they will hit the field sometime in february/march, of 08.

post-18-1199994943_thumb.jpg

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Orly

I know this is an old thread but what kind of growth can be expected in my area with consistent fertilizer and water?  I keep only 4 trunks, trim the rest. Planted In a sunny spot a couple months ago.  

I substituted one of these for a Roebellini in my yard.  The Roebellini's I have are slightly taller.  I wonder if they will out pace the fan palm in growth and I should consider something different than this fan palm.  I used the Fan palm to add a little variety to my other to Roebellinis.

The European Fan palm has bout 7" of tallest trunk and 30" overall height.  The Roebellini has about 40" overall height and much more trunk height.  

IMG_5188-2.thumb.JPG.8730e85a3399523b9c6

 

Edited by Orly
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Pal Meir

Here some pics showing the growth rate of three potted Chamaerops: (1) germinated in 1980, arborescent type; (2) germinated in 1962, suckering type; (3) germinated in 2003, suckering bonsai.

(1) *1980: 1981 – 1984 – 2004 – 2008

5928a3c94b8d9_Chamaeropshumilis1981-12-1

5928a3dc62ab5_Chamaeropshumilis1984-01-0

5928a3e76ee84_Chamaeropshumilis2004-04-2

5928a40b9625a_Chamaeropshumilis2008-09-1

(2) *1962: 1972 – 1989

5928a42b49fbf_Chamaerops1humilis1972-11-

5928a4351979a_Chamaerops1humilis1989-09-

(3) *2003: 

5928a45b1d164_Chamaeropshumilisargentea2

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Orly
1 hour ago, Pal Meir said:

Here some pics showing the growth rate of three potted Chamaerops: (1) germinated in 1980, arborescent type; (2) germinated in 1962, suckering type; (3) germinated in 2003, suckering bonsai.

 

Ouch, that's really slow.  I'll be in a walker or dead by the time they hit 8'.

All of your examples were in containers so that does have some bearing on growth rate.  I may have to reconsider keeping this palm.  Aside from another Roebellini, what would be another comparable sized/growth tropical palm?

Edited by Orly

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Neil C

Don't give up on this palm as they are much quicker in the ground. Give it a year or two and if it's not performing they replace it  Anyother option would be to spend a lit more now and get one with some trunk already. I believe they are quite cheap at least in some parts of the states.

Regards Neil

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PalmWarbler

I planted one about 4 years ago in SE Coastal FL and I don't think it's put on 1' of growth in that time.

Edited by PalmWarbler

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Orly
10 hours ago, PalmWarbler said:

I planted one about 4 years ago in SE Coastal FL and I don't think it's put on 1' of growth in that time.

Wow, not good news for my palm. My same area.  I think I'll be looking for a replacement.

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Pal Meir

But you can enjoy your Chamaerops for over 400 years: :greenthumb::D

592afa0326e12_ChamaeropsPadova1985-07-27

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PalmWarbler
5 hours ago, Orly said:

Wow, not good news for my palm. My same area.  I think I'll be looking for a replacement.

You're about 30 miles south of me so you might get a whopping 1' 1" over 4 years :-)

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Phoenikakias
2 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

But you can enjoy your Chamaerops for over 400 years: :greenthumb::D

592afa0326e12_ChamaeropsPadova1985-07-27

It looks like a palmy Dr Who travelling through time...

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Orly
6 hours ago, PalmWarbler said:

You're about 30 miles south of me so you might get a whopping 1' 1" over 4 years :-)

LOL.  Doesn't sound promising.  Guess I'll need to look into getting another Roebelinni. 

Edited by Orly
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Orly

My Chamaerops humilis is var. argentea and said to grow slower than the var. humilis.  Even so I'm still on the fence as to whether I should replace it or give it some more grow time.  Like Neil C mentioned I could replace it with a more mature one with more growth.  I did have to pay quite a bit more for the var. argentea so I could go with the var. humilis to offset some of the cost.   

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Orly

Noticed what looks like a Chamaerops Humilis today at the hospital in St. Lucie, FL.  If it is one then it's the largest I've seen in person.  

IMG_5237c.thumb.JPG.060dac2b2305172db9c8

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Laaz

This is one my wife bought me as a 5 gal. With no trunk 16 years ago when we first moved to SC... I keep it to a single trunk & the trunk is now just over 3 ft...

 

 

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Orly
2 minutes ago, Laaz said:

This is one my wife bought me as a 5 gal. With no trunk 16 years ago when we first moved to SC... I keep it to a single trunk & the trunk is now just over 3 ft...

 

 

16 yrs for 3 ft of trunk?  Man that's really discouraging.  I'm trying to keep myself from replacing it but that is just WAY too slow.  I'll keep fertilizing and watering.  If it's growing too slow after a year or two then it goes bye-bye.

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Laaz

As always image uploads fails with this crappy forum software... Here it is. Radicalis for scale...

med01.jpg

Edited by Laaz
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Laaz

This is another one I bought as a 5 gal. with about 6 inches of trunk about 12 years ago. Now has a little over 4 ft of trunk.

med02.jpg

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Orly
4 minutes ago, Laaz said:

As always image uploads fails with this crappy forum software... Here it is.

med01.jpg

That's pretty nice growth there.  Just wish it could be achieved in a shorter time period.

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Orly
2 minutes ago, Laaz said:

This is another one I bought as a 5 gal. with about 6 inches of trunk about 12 years ago. Now has a little over 4 ft of trunk.

med02.jpg

Another nice one.  Well I can only hope that in my climate zone it grows faster.  

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Matthew92
1 hour ago, Orly said:

Noticed what looks like a Chamaerops Humilis today at the hospital in St. Lucie, FL.  If it is one then it's the largest I've seen in person.  

Beautiful. They look so nice in this natural form when they are allowed to clump freely and not be hacked to death. 

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Phoenikakias

I am almost sure that among the different forms speed of growth may vary considerably. I have in my garden both fast and slowly growing forms and the difference in speed is spectacular. @Pal Meirwhen you write bonsai do you simply describe a situation caused by whatever reasons or do you refer to var. argentea/cerifera as a slow variety or do you refer to slow cultivar within this variety? I have observed other cerifera specimens in this and other fora, which have grown quite fast, which makes me consider the possibility of them being either not pure or of existing a slow growing, more gracile strain within the variety. Doubts become stronger through reading of reports about how sensitive this variety is to center rot when latter gets exposed to high moisture.

Edited by Phoenikakias

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Pal Meir
1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

I am almost sure that among the different forms speed of growth may vary considerably. I have in my garden both fast and slowly growing forms and the difference in speed is spectacular. @Pal Meirwhen you write bonsai do you simply describe a situation caused by whatever reasons or do you refer to var. argentea/cerifera as a slow variety or do you refer to slow cultivar within this variety? I have observed other cerifera specimens in this and other fora, which have grown quite fast, which makes me consider the possibility of them being either not pure or of existing a slow growing, more gracile strain within the variety. Doubts become stronger through reading of reports about how sensitive this variety is to center rot when latter gets exposed to high moisture.

No, my "bonsai" is not a variety but a treatment (root pruning etc.) of an otherwise "normal" palm.

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GeorgiaPalms

 

This is a YouTube video I filmed this spring of a large C.Humilis at the state botanical garden in Athens, GA. It's one of the largest I have seen in person.

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PalmCraze

I found this granddaddy last week. It's going to be a fine accent piece to the front bed and will have to have wired lighting along with my Bismarcia Nobilis s and Bites..all with the same blue green color.. Having it sunk late this week after Dorian is gone. It's in at least a 100 to 200 gallon pot..about 8 feet wide and nearly 7 feet high. I've got the whole dug being rather particular about it's exact location.  Truly exciting..it's like Christmas in summer. I've not seen too many like it..the amount of trunks..their diameter and length. I paid more of course but not waiting for years either.

IMG_20190827_143611743.jpg

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PalmCraze

Sorry...spelling error.   

Previous post..4th line down

Bites...should be Butea....look out for spell check. Lol

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PalmCraze

Thank You.  I think it's very cool.

Finding it..the tree farm was quite the ordeal. First .I went to a local nursery. ..where I had purchased a plant before. I was foolish and prepaid m   But had it in writing for a 6 ft multiple trunks..3 or more. All on the invoice. Owner starts sending me pics of  45 gallon sizes...which I expressed that I don't buy plants from pics and they seemed too small.   I saw the hassle coming..so Following day I did more research and found a tree farm..that wholesaled and retailed. I got refunded but on the condition that nursery guy got paid for his hassle. So I negotiated with the tree farm owner to sell his tree at wholesale which offset (mostly) .what I had to pay the nursery guy.   Yeah I know..crazy.

But a nice outcome. I definitely didn't want a dwarf pigmy because they're way too common here. 

 

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Neil C

Wow great looking Chamaerops. That plant has got to be at the very least 20 years old. Are Chamaerops vulcanos available where you live? These are on the next level again!!!

Regards Neil

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PalmCraze

All I've seen on the interweb is from a few inches to a foot a year..I'm skeptical of the foot. There was a comment that if you keep pruning the suckers it will add to the growth.  I decided to start with the largest I could find..price wasn't crazy. I'm not known for patience..tend to run orange stop lights..so it suited the purpose. Good luck if your on the search.

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Pal Meir

This 33 yr old Chamaerops is more than twice as tall as me:

1550170103_Chamaerops19862019-09-03P1050258.thumb.jpg.2999202c467a55547c407ecaa80985af.jpg

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Merlyn2220
14 hours ago, PalmCraze said:

All I've seen on the interweb is from a few inches to a foot a year..I'm skeptical of the foot. There was a comment that if you keep pruning the suckers it will add to the growth.  I decided to start with the largest I could find..price wasn't crazy. I'm not known for patience..tend to run orange stop lights..so it suited the purpose. Good luck if your on the search.

I've also read that removing the suckers will promote faster main trunk growth.  I'd imagine someone has done that experiment with Phoenix Dactylifera, due to the economic benefits involved with fast date palm growth.  I picked up two Chamaerops Humilis v. Argentea from a local HD last month, $75 each for 2-3' of single trunk with a couple of tiny suckers.  From the root ball it was pretty clear that the growers (Tree Town USA) had them field grown and had been trimming off suckers to promote main stem growth.  I went back last week and picked up the other two that they had, since it was clear no one else wanted them.  If I put all 4 together they'd be close to as big as that beautiful monster you bought!  :D

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PalmCraze

Central Florida..so optimum conditions I guess for growth but still slow..but I was out for different. Robes..dwarf Pigmys are real common. I was looking for a replacement of a robe..same spot in the front bed. Found it of all places in a small town median. (Picture). It's got to be 25 30 years..and neglected. That got me looking and the rest is history. I can wait for the finish..when I run lights to it as well as the other eucalyptus colored palms.  

IMG_20190822_151547971.jpg

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PalmCraze

Combining several single trunks..interesting idea..sounds like that will work out..and a nice savings!   I'm calling the guys that have the Dingo and will bring it to the hole.  I've got the hole pretty well dug.  I know I don't want the main stalks below the surface.  And I'm sure I'll be an active participant.

Maybe someone can give me advice on soil composition for this and how to set a large palm like this?

I've sank several but always appreciate more experience from others.

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HtownPalms

Well I have 7 seedlings of these. I got them as seeds last November while visiting Balboa park in San Diego. I guess I will never live to see them look like the mother plant that I got them off of. 

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