The Great Parajubaea Experiment

[_Keith]

So, a short while back I got a Parajubaea torallyi, which a lot folks said would not make it in Louisiana, but a recommended try was a Parajubaea sunkha.

So, along came a buy on the triple combo, Parajubaea torallyi, Parajubaea sunkha, and Parajubaea microcarpa.  You guessed it, I bit like a fish chasing a minnow.

So, here is the great experiment, OK, experiment.  I have planted 2 Parajubaea torallyi, 1 Parajubaea sunkha, and 1 Parajubaea microcarpa.   Yeah, they probably won't make it, but they are in the ground in the best microclimate I have for their liking here.  Let the experiment begin.

Keith

[Tad]

Ummm Keith, throw a teaser like that out and we all expect pictures!!

[AlexnAtlanta]

Keith, keep us posted on the Parajubaeas' progress.  The biggest challenge for you won't be cold, but will be the heat and humidity that these palms supposedly hate.  I received my first 10 gallon Parajubaea from Jungle Music just before Christmas, and I will plant it during the Spring.  The palm will like our Spring and Fall but will detest the hot, sultry summers.  I am on the hunt for a Parajubaea x. Butia hybrid, which has much more heat tolerance than the Parajubaea parent.  Good luck!

[_Keith]

(AlexnAtlanta @ Jan. 06 2008,18:19)

QUOTE

Keith, keep us posted on the Parajubaeas' progress.  The biggest challenge for you won't be cold, but will be the heat and humidity that these palms supposedly hate.  I received my first 10 gallon Parajubaea from Jungle Music just before Christmas, and I will plant it during the Spring.  The palm will like our Spring and Fall but will detest the hot, sultry summers.  I am on the hunt for a Parajubaea x. Butia hybrid, which has much more heat tolerance than the Parajubaea parent.  Good luck!

I will,

In addition to a little warming coming from Vermillion Bay, we also have a little cooling.  While every where else in this part of the south is in heat zone 9, we are in 8.  I am hoping that is enough.  

I also have these palms where they will get sun only from 11am to 4pm, which is full sun by most other folks standards, but hopefully the little extra cooling they need here in the summer.

Keith

[PalmGuyWC]

Hey Guys,

With frost on the foliage and below 25F,  they show damage.  My P. T V T was 60% damaged at 23F last year, but it recovered this past summer. You guys might even think of putting ice cubes around them in the evening this summer. I am very skepticle they will make it in your climates, as they like cool nights.

Dick

[_Keith]

Where I have them planted they will see no frost on the leaves.  Only once in the last 10 years would they have seen less than 25 degrees and that would have only been 23.  Now, about those cool nights, well from July through August the nights will be right around 80.   Spring and fall will average in the lows 60s and 70s, and winter will average below 50.  

As I said it was an experiment.  If they don't make it, there are plenty of other palms to try.

Keith

But then again, Dick, how many palms are you growing that would not be have been considered hardy in your climate when you planted them.  Life is made to experiment.  

[Tad]

I have pj torallyi, they do ok, just slow mine are in containers not planted, and under shade, 60 percento

[AlexnAtlanta]

I have also found that ensuring very fast draining soil can help soften the blow of climatic conditions.  For example, my Phoenix, Washingtonia, Brahea and Serenoa (many of which are marginal here in Atlanta at best) prosper because I have them planted in very sandy fast draining soil.  This encourages deep root growth.  Our native soil is very heavy poorly draining clay -- which some palms like, but not the above palms and from what I've read not Parajubaea.  Quite frankly, there are very few examples of people even trying Parajubaea in the Southeast, so there may be surprises, good or bad in store for us.  One encouraging note: there is a very healthy large (not particularly tall) Jubaea Chilensis in Charlotte NC that has been there many years.  J.C. is known to hate heat and humidity, so perhaps there's hope!  Thanks, Dick, and others.

[Exotic Life]

I just curius from you're results over a couple years... maybe this palms are also some new one for the ground over here... I know some people that are also trying them out.

Robbin

[ghar41]

Real important to try to keep the trunks dry in hot weather.  Soak or drip irrigation only.  I even lost a P. t. t. one time when some ground cover humus piled up too high on the back side of the trunk.  They get some sort of fungal growth going... the spears pull out, then they rot right down through the rest of the leaves.

Mine have had no problem with moisture during the cool winter months..in fact all three species grow much better for me in the cool months, and take a short rest in mid summer.

[Gaston in Argentina]

Keithbordeaux

Parajubaeas into cultivation were giving surprises regarding the weather requereiments.- So, they are possible and not just with one trial. Just time will tell, maybe yes maybe not. Just the time and addaptation of each palm will tell.- I think is better to try with more then one.-

Here in the summer Cordoba we are getting nigth to very high temperatures,  more then 30° C. and 38 to 40° C. during days, some with moisture and some dry.-

Palms grow perfect and grow as torpedo with this climate.-

Nothing is told with the culture requereiments of this nice palm and surprises can be experienced.-

If you try more then one, the ones under full sun, another in filtered sun, near to a wall that show to west will give you more apreciated info.-

The best looking i have are in half day sun, near to the wall and showing to the west.-

Regarding cold hardiness, is proved that bigger Parajubaeas (less cocoides) experience more tolerance to cold when bigger.-

Hope this help.

Gaston AR

[PalmGuyWC]

Now that winter in the Northern Hemisphere, is mostly behind us, (we hope) I'm curious to hear how your Parajubaeas faired the winter. The two P. T V T that I have in the ground came through with the lowest temp. of 25.5F (-3.5 C) with no damage.  I did throw a sheet over my largest one on the two coldest nights, but the smaller one was unprotected. I can detect no damage on either one, and they were covered with frost several times during the winter.

I have all the other P. species growing in 5 gal pots. and they also experienced freezing temps. but they were protected somewhat growing under lathe, but a southern exposure where they got several hours of direct sun.....on those few days we had clear skys. We still have a month of winter to go, but I can already detect growth of the Parajubaeas.

The Butia X Parajubaea hybrid came through like a champ with no protection and it's already growing, and the same for Butia X Jubaea X (Syagrus).

How did your Parajubaeas come through the winter and what was your lowest temps., and did you give them any protection? I think I determined last year that anything below 25F. and you can expect foliage damage on P.T V T. The others, I'm not sure of yet. My large P. cocoides was severely damaged last year with a low of 23.5F, and it hasn't recovered yet.

Dick

[tank]

I've had a P. sunkah in a 10 gal pot for a year here in N. Florida.  I was thinking of planting it out this year in a location that used to be a upland pine forest, with sandy soil and  filtered sun under a bunch of slash pines.

It did well last summer.  I kept it in a location where it saw full sun until around 2:00pm.  Seems like they would do better here in the humid south in a shadier local.

Do they have any special soil requirements?  The spot under the pines has slightly acidic soil.

[PalmGuyWC]

Jason,

I've heard Parajubaeas prefer a very well drained soil, such as they have in S. Calif., however mine are growing in adobe clay and they have been in the ground about two years and they are doing fine. Apparently they don't like humus around the trunk or they rot. I keep mine on the dry side in the warmer months. I would think a sandy soil would suit them fine.

Dick

[_Keith]

The Great Parajubaea Experiment Update - The 4 Parajubaea made it through the winter just fine.   They were planted essentially as late stage seedlings.   They look slightly worse for the wear, but not bad.  

Their fate will likely be determined between now and June.  If they become established, then they may make the hot 3 months of late June, July, August and early September.  

Stay tuned for updates.

[tank]

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 25 2008,10:25)

QUOTE

Jason,

I've heard Parajubaeas prefer a very well drained soil, such as they have in S. Calif., however mine are growing in adobe clay and they have been in the ground about two years and they are doing fine. Apparently they don't like humus around the trunk or they rot. I keep mine on the dry side in the warmer months. I would think a sandy soil would suit them fine.

Dick

Thanks Dick,

I'll probably plant it out in a few weeks.

The plant is about 4 ft overall and looks as if it may start producing split leaves this year (if it survives).  I purchased it from a board member and it was inexpensive so I don't mind trialing it here.  Hopefully our last little nip of winter will happen this week and then spring will have sprung.

I do know that Eric in Orlando is growing one at Leu Gardens in Orlando and it is (was?) surviving.  From his past pics it seemed to be in a decent amount of shade.  They are having a CFPACs meeting at the gardens next weekend so hopefully Eric or someone else will update us on its status.

[Kathryn]

My Parajubaea sunkha lived in a pot in partial shade for two years before it was planted in the ground in the spring of 2005. It did okay through the first summer with decent growth and no damage. It wasn’t so lucky during the second summer in the ground and was fried sometime in August or September of 2006. It didn’t rot, just all turned brown.

I didn’t realize that Parajubaea palms were so sensitive to heat when I bought it. I won’t be trying another Parajubaea – too many other palms that will do great in my limited space.

[tank]

Kathryn,

Did your Parajubea get much afternoon sun?  What is your soil like?

Sorry to hear about the lack of success with this plant.

[PalmGuyWC]

I had hoped to get more input on this thread so we can come to some conclussions about the Parajubaeas. Now come on you guys in S. Calif., there are probably more Parajubaeas growing in S. Cal. than anywhere outside of their native habitat. You got some pretty low temps. this winter, so how did your Parajubaeas fair? Please list your lows and with protection or not.

I have a feeling it's not high daytime temps. that do them in, but warm humid nights and constant humidity in such places like Florida. Last summer I experienced at least 3 different heat waves where the temps. reached 100+ F (38+ C) and the palms continued to grow. In fact, I think it's a myth that they slow down in summer as that's when mine grow the most, although I must admit, they grow the fastest in Sept. and Oct when the days are getting shorter, but then all of my palms have a spurt of growth then.

I think the difference is, even in the summer heat waves, the nights cool down to the 60's or even lower in my location, hot low humidity days and cool nights. I have a feeling it's the mean temperature that counts. An even more ideal climate would be the one found around the San Francisco Bay where the days are not so hot, and the nights are even cooler than mine. My limiting factor seems to be low night time temps. which drop below freezing in the winter. I'll repeat again, below 25F. and expect foliage damage.

Dick

[Alberto]

(Gaston in Argentina @ Jan. 08 2008,01:08)

QUOTE

Parajubaeas into cultivation were giving surprises regarding the weather requereiments.- Gaston

Gaston,I remember you telling about Parajubaeas growing fine in clayish soil. Do parajubaea tortor like this kind of soil?

[Jim in Los Altos]

All my Parajubaeas (6 torallyi, 3 cocoides, 1 sunka) did very well this winter with continued spear growth of about an inch to two inches per month but my lowest temperature was 34F, way above these palms minimum hardiness. Last winter's freeze and a low of 26F caused no damage on any of them. The fastest growing Parajubaea I have is a trunking cocoides. It has sped ahead of all my others.

[Eric in Orlando]

The P. sunkha is still growing happily. I sprouted in from seed from RPS and it was planted in mar. 2005 from a 5 gal. It gets bright shade in winter and partial sun/full sun in summer.

We also have a P. torallyi var. torallyi growing happily but it is slower. Interestingly a P. sunkha that was growing next to it died as did P. torallyi var. microcarpa.

P. sunkha

P. torallyi var. torallyi

[doubravsky]

I have one P. Torallyi in Riverside, where we regularly get July and August highs in the 110 degree range.. it gets some shade, and it seemed to stop through the heat (hard to tell with these-slow already). It did open a leaf in October though, and hasn't looked the worse for wear this winter.

Mine is still small- just opened it's first adult leaf in October. It made it through the January 2007 freeze of about 24 degrees with no problems at all. I'll watch it closely this summer...

[realarch]

It would be nice if more pictures of this palm were posted. Being a novice to palm growing here in So. Cal. the genus doesn't seem to get a lot of mention here although it could be I'm not paying attention or don't know what I'm looking at. Hoping to see and get a lot of pictures of this palm on a trip to Ecuador later this year.

Keep up the good work guys.

[PalmGuyWC]

Tim,

Pull up PACSOA on your web site and you can view some of the Parajubaeas, also the N. Calif. Palm Society web site.  It's unfortunate we don't have any shots from S. Calif. because I know there are some nice big ones growing down there. On an old thread there were some nice shots of Parajubaeas growing in New Zealand.

Dick

[osideterry]

My lows were in the 29-30F range, which I experienced 3 weekends in a row in December. I have a 3ft tall Parajubaea torallyi v'tor in the ground, and  a 2ft Parajubaea sunkha still in a pot. No protection and no damage to either.

My Parajubaea torallyi went through last year's sub freezing temps with zero damage. Lows were in the 25-30F range every morning for a full week.

[freakypalmguy]

5 small  strap leafers and one 5 gal. Parajubea t. v. t.  Low of 27F and many freezing with numerous light frosts. Unprotected Not one bit of damage to any of these. I think I need a few more of these.

[PalmGuyWC]

You guys in S. Calif. can grow so many different kinds of palms, but for us in N. Calif., we are limited.  I expect one of these years, and with some publicity, Parajubaeas will be the rage around the San Francisco Bay. It's only a matter time and when they become more available and a little public education. Wouldn't it be great to see Parajubaeas graceing our landscape instead of Washingtonias?

Dick

[realarch]

Thanks Dick, I'll check it out.

Tim

[STEVE IN SO CAL]

(PalmGuyWC @ Feb. 26 2008,13:35)

QUOTE

You guys in S. Calif. can grow so many different kinds of palms, but for us in N. Calif., we are limited.  I expect one of these years, and with some publicity, Parajubaeas will be the rage around the San Francisco Bay. It's only a matter time and when they become more available and a little public education. Wouldn't it be great to see Parajubaeas graceing our landscape instead of Washingtonias?

Dick

Working on it, Dick..... ::

[_Keith]

Spring Update - All 4 Parajubaea, planted as young stage seedlings, made it through winter and early spring pretty much intact.  A couple have barely noticeable new fronds emerging on a couple of them.   We are a long way out of the woods, but for now, the experiment is still viable.

[Gaston in Argentina]

Keith

Theres not reason for Parajubaeas dont grow at your place if theres not much experiences planting there,  

Do not water them if is not needed, and plant them where they have a good drainage of the rains excess.-

Give them ample sun.

Gaston

[_Keith]

(Gaston in Argentina @ Apr. 08 2008,14:07)

QUOTE

Keith

Theres not reason for Parajubaeas dont grow at your place if theres not much experiences planting there,  

Do not water them if is not needed, and plant them where they have a good drainage of the rains excess.-

Give them ample sun.

Gaston

Thank you Gaston.

They aren't looking all that great, but it has been a tough spring here and I planted them as early stage seedlings.   They are still alive.  I am not sure what to do for them.  Time will tell.

Keith

[Alicehunter2000]

Watching with interest...........if yours make it.....then it's possible here.

[_Keith]

If it lives through me, it is for sure a possibility for you.  I am hard on things.  Think "Bull in a chine closet"  

[PalmGuyWC]

Keith,

Not related to Parajubaeas, but you mentioned that I had tried palms in my climate that might have been a surprise. About the only surprise I've had is from Brahea brandegeei. I was given a B. brandeei as a 1 gal. size years ago. I honestly didn't think it would make it in my climate, and I was half right. I've found it to be the most tender of the Braheas and it does show tip damage when the temps, fall below 25F, but most winters it comes through ok. It was almost totally defoliated in the big freeze of 89/90, but slowly recovered and had no trunk damage.

Dicik

[merrill]

Keith,

Not related to Parajubaeas, but you mentioned that I had tried palms in my climate that might have been a surprise. About the only surprise I've had is from Brahea brandegeei. I was given a B. brandeei as a 1 gal. size years ago. I honestly didn't think it would make it in my climate, and I was half right. I've found it to be the most tender of the Braheas and it does show tip damage when the temps, fall below 25F, but most winters it comes through ok. It was almost totally defoliated in the big freeze of 89/90, but slowly recovered and had no trunk damage.

Dicik

[ghar41]

Parajubaea's are ideally suited for coastal Northern California and have grown fine for me here in the valley. This cocoides is in the trunk stage and will eventually crowd out this relatively small space. Fine with me!

I lost a decent size Par tor tor awhile back due to wet humus on the trunk in the summer, leading to rot. This one is smaller and is just past the strap leaf stage.

P sunkha brings up the rear, but may be the best of all. Early reports of it in cultivation say that its a bit smaller and more like a coconut than the other two.... I planted one at a friends house in Pacific Grove Monterey...it'll be interesting to see if it grows faster than mine....

[PalmGuyWC]

Glenn,

It's interesting that you mention Pacific Grove, Monterey. It occured to me that I know of no palm growers along the coast from south of San Francisco to Monterey along the coast. I would imagine this would be a prime location to grow Parajubaeas and a lot of other palms such as Howeas and Rhopalostylis. I would think there are nitches of land in close proximity to the Pacific that are almost frost free. The soil west of the San Andras fault is sandy, not like the adobe clay to the east of the fault. (Let's face it.....the west side of the fault is part of S. Calif. slowly drifting up our way. I think I read Los Angeles will be a suburb of San Francisco in about 3 million years, not that I'm going to worry about that!)

Proteas, many which are frost tender, are grown commercially around the Monterey Bay and they like a sandy well drained soil. I would think Parajubaeas would like this enviroment. It will be interesting to hear how your friend's P. sunkah grows in Pacific Grove. Santa Cruz would be a great place to grow palms too, as it's almost frost free and is often sunny when the rest of the Bay Area is fogged in.

Dick

[sonoranfans]

I just received and planted into 15 gallon containers (3) parajubaea Torallyi var Torallyi(from socal on Ebay). They look like Erics in their stage of maturity(20"tall, 3-4 strap leaves). I will report on their growth behavior in the arizona desert in the future. I will ultimately(in a year or two) plant them in different sun exposures as suggested by Gaston, and ensure good drainage with soil ammendment.

Edited April 24, 2008 by sonoranfans