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NBTX11

Cold Protection Help

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NBTX11

Well, we started out with a low of 27 tonight.  Now, weather underground is saying 23-24, which means it could get as low as 20F.

Weather.com still says 27, so who knows, maybe it won't get that cold.

I wasn't worried until they kept revising the temps, now I am worried about the attached queen palm.

Last year it got down to around 23F and it burned about 40-50%, but recovered in spring fairly fast.  It is now very established and strong despite how young it is, so I doubt 23-24 will harm it at all, but I am worried about the what if temp of 20.  Palm is about 8 ft tall or so.

Would you protect this palm, if so how.  All my other stuff is hardy and doesn't need protection (Washy's, Butia, and CIDP).  I was thinking about wrapping trunk in and old blanket, then putting Christmas lights around it.  Question, do you put the lights on the inside, or outside of blanket, I have heard they can burn the palm.  Advice, please.  Thank you.

100_0458.jpg

100_0645.jpg

Here's one of my Washy Filifera and CIDPs, I don't worry about these ones they are so tough.

100_0646.jpg

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KatyTX

Holy popsicles Batman!  They have me getting down to 25F tomorrow night!

Weather.com = 27F

Accuweather.com = 29F

Local TV station = 27F

I've moved most of my questionable stuff into the garage & wrapped everything else.

I have never used christmas lights on palms, so I can't comment.  If it were me, I would wrap a blanket around it and pray for the best.  20F shouldn't kill it - and queens grow fast enough to rebound from defoliation.  Not my baby though.  My bangalows are wrapped in bed sheets only...

Matt

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Tad

Stay up all nite drinking and periodically run out and "water" your queen, while whistling Bob marleys "don't worry" song, not that dont worry be happy crap... but the dont worry bout a ting, cause ever little ting gonna be all right song. Invite friends if you think its gonna get real cold! explain to your family and neighbors and any law enforcement that this is the only way to keep your lil palm from dying and that your actions are more heroic than insane!!

:)

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NBTX11

I think I will go ahead and wrap something around it and string some lights around it.  Hopefully that will get it thru...don't really want it defoliated...that doesn't look good while it is recovering.

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Tad

Seriously jim tie the fronds up (cylinder) wrap a sheet around it, string upyour lights around that and you should slide thru with flying colors. just dont forget to undo when its sunny out, the reasoning I have is put somything between the palm and lights so they dont burn the palm, I dont know what kind you have but somoeone burned up some christmas palms if I remember correctly using christmas lights.

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NBTX11

(palmotrafficante @ Jan. 01 2008,16:14)

QUOTE
Stay up all nite drinking and periodically run out and "water" your queen, while whistling Bob marleys "don't worry" song, not that dont worry be happy crap... but the dont worry bout a ting, cause ever little ting gonna be all right song. Invite friends if you think its gonna get real cold! explain to your family and neighbors and any law enforcement that this is the only way to keep your lil palm from dying and that your actions are more heroic than insane!!

:)

Well, I don't know if that would work  :D

I see there is a freeze warning all the way down to Deep S. TX with a forcasted low of 32 in Harlingen and 33 in McAllen.

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NBTX11

wunderground is saying 23, but weather.com is only saying 29, wish they would make up their mind.  I don't think it is going down to 23, wunderground is the only ones saying that.

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Tad

shine em, let em burn, thats what federal crop insurance is for!!

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NBTX11

So anyway, here is what I ended up doing.  I wrapped 3 sheets around trunk and growing spear and then wrapped that in Christmas lights.

100_0647.jpg

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_Keith

(palmotrafficante @ Jan. 01 2008,16:14)

QUOTE
Stay up all nite drinking and periodically run out and "water" your queen, while whistling Bob marleys "don't worry" song, not that dont worry be happy crap... but the dont worry bout a ting, cause ever little ting gonna be all right song. Invite friends if you think its gonna get real cold! explain to your family and neighbors and any law enforcement that this is the only way to keep your lil palm from dying and that your actions are more heroic than insane!!

:)

How did you know my secret?  Although, I really prefer "Hell's Bells" by AC/DC.

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spockvr6

(syersj @ Jan. 01 2008,14:57)

QUOTE
I wasn't worried until they kept revising the temps, now I am worried about the attached queen palm.

Hey Jim!  What happened to "plant to your zone folks"!?!?!?

LOL!

Sorry...just couldnt resist a little jab.....hehehehehhe :D

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Tad

shoulda covered the whole thing,

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_Keith

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 01 2008,20:40)

QUOTE

(syersj @ Jan. 01 2008,14:57)

QUOTE
I wasn't worried until they kept revising the temps, now I am worried about the attached queen palm.

Hey Jim!  What happened to "plant to your zone folks"!?!?!?

LOL!

Sorry...just couldnt resist a little jab.....hehehehehhe :D

Just think how many wonderful foods we would do without if "planting to your zone" was the mantra.  The Haas Avocado comes to mind for one, but there are so many more.   Forget the zones, push, push, push, for that one different plant.  One plant can be the one to completey redefine a zone.  Be the one to find it.  Go for it.

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osideterry

The radio here mentioned possible record lows for the Florida panhandle. By the time that makes our news, it must be serious. My thoughts and prayers are with you guys. Hoping you dodge a major hit the next few days.

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_Keith

(osideterry @ Jan. 01 2008,21:12)

QUOTE
The radio here mentioned possible record lows for the Florida panhandle. By the time that makes our news, it must be serious. My thoughts and prayers are with you guys. Hoping you dodge a major hit the next few days.

Terrry,

I feel for them too, but I live in Louisiana, I have vacationed in the Fl. panhandle once or twice every year for the last 30 years.  It is an incredibly beatiful place.  They may have to replant their palms every few year, save for the Sabals, but who cares, it does not detract from the beauty of the area.   Palms there, are the icing on the cake, but the cake is the bomb.

If the palms die, don't sweat it guys, replant them and know you live in one of the most beautiful places on this earth.

Keith

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mjff

Jim,

A little perspective for you, forecast low in San Angelo tonight is 12F!  It's 9:00 and we just dipped to 32 at my house (29 at the airport) with clear skies, calm winds and a dew point of 3F.  

My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  I'm not taking any chances with it tonight.  It got wrapped with Christmas tree lights covered with a heavy blanket for this one.  I'm guessing the fronds will be toast since they are too big to protect, but maybe I can keep the heart from being damaged.

I believe the burnt palms were caused by rope lights not regular Christmas tree lights.

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

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NBTX11

(palmotrafficante @ Jan. 01 2008,20:50)

QUOTE
shoulda covered the whole thing,

It's not gonna get that cold, probably didn't even need to cover, the local weather guys said 26F, and it took colder than that with absolutely no protection last year.  I just felt like being safe, rather than sorry, if I woke up tomorrow and it was 5 degrees lower than forecast.

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NBTX11

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 01 2008,20:40)

QUOTE

(syersj @ Jan. 01 2008,14:57)

QUOTE
I wasn't worried until they kept revising the temps, now I am worried about the attached queen palm.

Hey Jim!  What happened to "plant to your zone folks"!?!?!?

LOL!

Sorry...just couldnt resist a little jab.....hehehehehhe :D

Queen palm is in my zone "supposedly".  :;):

Supposed to be good down to at least 18-20F and it has never got that cold in the 4 years I have lived here, not even close.   But I know what your sayin...I almost have myself talked into expirimentally planting some king palms next spring.

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NBTX11

(mjff @ Jan. 01 2008,22:08)

QUOTE
Jim,

A little perspective for you, forecast low in San Angelo tonight is 12F!  It's 9:00 and we just dipped to 32 at my house (29 at the airport) with clear skies, calm winds and a dew point of 3F.  

My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  I'm not taking any chances with it tonight.  It got wrapped with Christmas tree lights covered with a heavy blanket for this one.  I'm guessing the fronds will be toast since they are too big to protect, but maybe I can keep the heart from being damaged.

I believe the burnt palms were caused by rope lights not regular Christmas tree lights.

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

Martin, that's unvelievable.  I've always heard that queens were absolutely toast at 17-18F and yours is alive at 16F.  Interested to see if you can keep it alive at 12F!  Like I said, supposed to get down to 26F here but wunderground said 22 or 23F so I decided to be safe...Good luck and keep us posted how everything does tonight.

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mjff

(syersj @ Jan. 01 2008,21:11)

QUOTE

(palmotrafficante @ Jan. 01 2008,20:50)

QUOTE
shoulda covered the whole thing,

It's not gonna get that cold, probably didn't even need to cover, the local weather guys said 26F, and it took colder than that with absolutely no protection last year.  I just felt like being safe, rather than sorry, if I woke up tomorrow and it was 5 degrees lower than forecast.

The night we got to 16 our local weather guy (and NWS) was predicting 26 for what its worth.  It's all the same, unless you're a palm tree.

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mjff

(syersj @ Jan. 01 2008,21:27)

QUOTE

(mjff @ Jan. 01 2008,22:08)

QUOTE
Jim,

A little perspective for you, forecast low in San Angelo tonight is 12F!  It's 9:00 and we just dipped to 32 at my house (29 at the airport) with clear skies, calm winds and a dew point of 3F.  

My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  I'm not taking any chances with it tonight.  It got wrapped with Christmas tree lights covered with a heavy blanket for this one.  I'm guessing the fronds will be toast since they are too big to protect, but maybe I can keep the heart from being damaged.

I believe the burnt palms were caused by rope lights not regular Christmas tree lights.

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

Martin, that's unvelievable.  I've always heard that queens were absolutely toast at 17-18F and yours is alive at 16F.  Interested to see if you can keep it alive at 12F!  Like I said, supposed to get down to 26F here but wunderground said 22 or 23F so I decided to be safe...Good luck and keep us posted how everything does tonight.

I think Dick's have seen 14F with only minor frond damage, but his are established.  According to my digital thermometer here at the house the coldest we have been is 19.4F, and the air is so dry that it warms up really fast.  By 9:30 tomorrow we'll probably be back above freezing.  I also have that Queen planted a couple of feet from a SE facing wall that gets sun the second it rises.

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NBTX11

Oh, OK now that makes sense.  Tonight will be a real test for it though.

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gsn

(mjff @ Jan. 01 2008,22:08)

QUOTE
My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

Mjff,

That is kinda misleading saying your queen has taken 5 days below 19 F. Especially after your post saying the lowest temp in your yard on your digital thermometer was 19.4!

I think Dick's have seen 14F with only minor frond damage, but his are established.  According to my digital thermometer here at the house the coldest we have been is 19.4F, and the air is so dry that it warms up really fast.  By 9:30 tomorrow we'll probably be back above freezing.  I also have that Queen planted a couple of feet from a SE facing wall that gets sun the second it rises.

I could be wrong but I doubt Dick Douglas' queen has taken 14F with only minor leaf damage!

I know a ton were toast (killed) here in central Florida in 1989 at 19F degrees!

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NBTX11

(gsn @ Jan. 01 2008,23:21)

QUOTE

(mjff @ Jan. 01 2008,22:08)

QUOTE
My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

Mjff,

That is kinda misleading saying your queen has taken 5 days below 19 F. Especially after your post saying the lowest temp in your yard on your digital thermometer was 19.4!

I think Dick's have seen 14F with only minor frond damage, but his are established.  According to my digital thermometer here at the house the coldest we have been is 19.4F, and the air is so dry that it warms up really fast.  By 9:30 tomorrow we'll probably be back above freezing.  I also have that Queen planted a couple of feet from a SE facing wall that gets sun the second it rises.

I could be wrong but I doubt Dick Douglas' queen has taken 14F with only minor leaf damage!

I know a ton were toast (killed) here in central Florida in 1989 at 19F degrees!

Generally speaking, we tend to have drier cold events than FL; lower humidity, i think that adds a degree or 2 to hardiness.  Of course, I could be wrong, just speculation.

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Tad

woke up this morning....smiled at the rising sun.....3 little birds ....beside my doorstep...singing sweet songs

of melodies pure and true...sayin this is my message to you hoooo hooooo , DONT WORRY , BOUT A TING!!!! CAUDE EVERY LIL TING GONNA BE AWRIGHT!!! :)

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BobbyinNY

I had to get in here and say that I'm really praying for you guys... I can only imagine how that feels.... I freak out when it's October and it starts dropping into the 40's....  20-something is cold especially if it's gonna be a prolonged freeze...  We haven't really even been in the low 20's up here (mostly around 30-35 for a low) yet, but if it makes you guys feel any better, it's supposed to drop to 16f tonight and I know that I'm gonna be hard-pressed to maintain mid 50's in my biosphere.  Lets keep our fingers crossed.

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Tad

it didnt get as cold as foecasted in the RGV,

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mjff

(gsn @ Jan. 01 2008,22:21)

QUOTE

(mjff @ Jan. 01 2008,22:08)

QUOTE
My newly planted Queen has already taken lows of 16, 17, 18, 18, 18 and 19 with only minor damage (those are airport readings and usually I stay 2-3 degrees warmer, but I'm not getting up that early to check my thermometer).  Of course, it's about twice the size of yours.  

18 days ago I hadn't had a freeze yet, now we've been in the teens more times than we normally see in an entire winter.  Oh well, back into the 50's tomorrow afternoon.

Mjff,

That is kinda misleading saying your queen has taken 5 days below 19 F. Especially after your post saying the lowest temp in your yard on your digital thermometer was 19.4!

I think Dick's have seen 14F with only minor frond damage, but his are established.  According to my digital thermometer here at the house the coldest we have been is 19.4F, and the air is so dry that it warms up really fast.  By 9:30 tomorrow we'll probably be back above freezing.  I also have that Queen planted a couple of feet from a SE facing wall that gets sun the second it rises.

I could be wrong but I doubt Dick Douglas' queen has taken 14F with only minor leaf damage!

I know a ton were toast (killed) here in central Florida in 1989 at 19F degrees!

Airport low was 14 this morning, my thermometer said 17.2.  The accuracy of my thermometer is somewhat in question, it pretty consistantly reads higher than the official temperature even under circumstances where there shouldn't be that much of a difference.  In the near future I am going to purchase a weather station, and than I can determine whether it is correct or not.

Dick made that claim in http://palmtalk.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboar...t=ST;f=1;t=8746 he actually said his survived with severe frond damage, but recovered.

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NBTX11

Big hype about nothing.  It "only" got down to 28 last night, nothing to worry about at all.

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FRITO

I can't sleep....my palms are cold and so am I.

I only protected my bismarkia with a few sheets and put a flood light onder there for a little heat.

queens, mule, phoneix species, experimental D lutecens are all on their own.

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PalmGuyWC

Did I see my name used in vain? :)  When we had the big freeze, it did get down to 14F, and many nights below 20 and one day remained at 32.  My queens had about 15 ft of woody trunk, and they were severely damaged with only a couple of the center fronds left with any green. It took about 2 years for them to grow a nice crown again, and a few years later the damage to the exposed trunks started to sluff off on one side of the trunks.

A couple of them did die several years after the freeze, even though they had grown new crowns. Many queens were killed in my area, and I think a lot of people chopped them down, not giving them time to recover. I don't think any smaller queens without woody trunk would have survived. Actually the two queens that died later were crowding out other palms, so it was no big loss. The fronds on my Butiagrus were burned too, but they recovered, and only one had very minor trunk damage, but hardly noticeable.

CIDP's and Washingtonias were burned brown, but recovered with no trunk damage. Even some of the Butias had minor frond damage on the tips of the fronds. Most of the Braheas had frond damage, except for B. Armata which had no damage, nor did the Jubaeas or the Nannorrhops.

A lot of my palms were younger then, but now their large and there is more of a canopy so I think they would fair better now. I have a Parajubaea cocoides that had about 3 feet of woody trunk. It had some overhead protection from large Oaks, and it was totallly defoliated, not a speck of green left, and I thought it was dead, but it slowly recovered, but it took years to grow a full crown again. Last winter with two lows of 23F, it got whacked again but it's slowly recovering.

This winter my absolute low has been 25.5F and frost almost every morning in December, and I see no palm damage, but the alocasias, cannas, and a few other tender fill-in plants are brown, but that's to be expected almost every winter in my climate.

Dick

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NBTX11

It only got down to 27, protection was unnecessary, no damage.

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FRITO

Jim good to hear. tonight may look worse than last night for me here.(they say 17 degrees while currently my meter reads 31.9.

your going to have some giants before to long in your yard.

I have a queen that took 23.4 last year. I think i wrapped it with a sheet like you, no foilar damage anyway though. it was maybe a little larger than your (no trunk)

last nights 23 doesnt look like any of my queens blinked

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NBTX11

(FRITO @ Jan. 03 2008,21:43)

QUOTE
Jim good to hear. tonight may look worse than last night for me here.(they say 17 degrees while currently my meter reads 31.9.

your going to have some giants before to long in your yard.

I have a queen that took 23.4 last year. I think i wrapped it with a sheet like you, no foilar damage anyway though. it was maybe a little larger than your (no trunk)

last nights 23 doesnt look like any of my queens blinked

I planted that queen as a very small palm 2 yrs ago.  Last year it went from about 4 ft to 8 ft tall.  By the end of next year, My guess is I will be looking at a 12-14ft tall palm.

Cold is over for us, lows above freezing tonight, and will warm into the 70s this weekend

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pdleft

When I looked at the remote thermometer this morning it was 31.5 degrees here in Loxahatchee Groves, Fl. Woe is me. My Cyrtostachys among

other tropicals are probably history. The shade house was a few degrees warmer but this is not good. I had ice sheeting on my windshield. And it's supposed to be even worse tonight. :(

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spockvr6
When I looked at the remote thermometer this morning it was 31.5 degrees here in Loxahatchee Groves, Fl. Woe is me. My Cyrtostachys among

other tropicals are probably history.

Was the Cyrtostachys out in the open??!?!?

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pdleft
When I looked at the remote thermometer this morning it was 31.5 degrees here in Loxahatchee Groves, Fl. Woe is me. My Cyrtostachys among

other tropicals are probably history.

Was the Cyrtostachys out in the open??!?!?

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pdleft

No, they are in 15/20 gallon containers in the shade house sitting in water completely crowded with other palms. They are too heavy for for me to move. They have done well down to 40 degrees. I covered them and crowded them and that was the best that I could do. All small ones are protected. It was not supposed to get so cold last night but it did.

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