Carludovica Jungle Drums

[Wai`anae Steve 18]

Saw a posting from 2006, but I still have questions.

Someplace a "google" said it was stemless.  This would make a big difference where I plant it.  So who's had one for a few years??

Bought it at Walmart in Pearl City, the have more, for $23.88

[metalfan 405]

I have one that is over 5 years old. You won't believe this (maybe you will...) but I bought mine as a plant in a 4" pot from Angel Gardens for $3. Now its almost 4 ft tall. Its now about twice the size of yours if yours is about 2 ft? Hard to tell from your pic. I will try to get a picture today. I do consider it stemless. But it may just be slow to get a stem. Further growing needed.

[aussiearoids 333]

This looks like a plant that is for sale at a mates nursery . This one will grow in full sun and looks to get about 4' or so .

http://www.equatorialexotics.com/html_plan...ia_martiana.htm

[Eric in Orlando 3,919]

There has been much discussion on boards about this plant in the past. I believe it is Asplundia rigida. It is a tender plant, probably a zone 10b/11. I have tried them a few times here but the decline and die once it gets below 40F and it never got below 35F. Its a good container plant for a shady spot.

[metalfan 405]

Whoops I meant Exotic Angel not Angel Gardens, LOL

[junglegalfla 33]

I bought mine in a 6" pot recently at Lowes. I believe I paid $8.99. They have it with the exotic angel plants inside.

[Wai`anae Steve 18]

Thanks for all the replys.  Yes it is about 2' tall right now with one "sucker" starting to show.  The others did not have any suckers.

So I'm still not sure where to plant it, or what it is.

Is it a Carludovica                 or

Is it a Asplundia?

Might move it up to the Palms section in a day or two if I don't get unconfused  

[paulgila 194]

carludovica(spelling?) has really palmate leaves so that doesn't really look like it.

[metalfan 405]

Mine has never suckered. Actually I have 2, and they were both the same...Exotic ANgel plants in little 4 inch pots really cheepo. The second one I have I only got about a year or 18 months ago, its already about a foot and a half tall. They seem to grow pretty fast, then once they get a certain size, slow down

[fiji jim 87]

Does not look at all like our Carludovica palmata (Panama Hat Palm) from Ecuador.

jim

[paulgila 194]

i think there are a few plants with that common name & that is what is leading to some of the confusion.

[Al in Kona 575]

Steve, it doesn't look at all like any Carludovica I've seen.  Looks like it must be an Asplundia.  I was surprised to read that it will grow in the sun as it looks more like it would prefer some shade.  It's a nice looking plant no matter where you put it.

[daxin 152]

I have seen a few young Carludovica plants in 6" pots that look just like the photo posted above. If you search on the internet, you can see similar images. I guess when they get older, their leaves will become more palmate.

[paulgila 194]

the ones i've seen have the striking palmate leaves at a pretty small size.

[Eric in Orlando 3,919]

Here is Asplundia rigida in the conservatory at Fairchild. Don't know if it is too tender outside in Miami of if it was rare at the time they planted it;

[estan 1]

Going as far back as Bailey's Cyclopedia, if you look up Carludovica there are at least two species listed, the one with the mature palmate leaves, correctly the panama hat plant, I believe, and the one you have which always has the simple leaf split in the middle, part way in from the tip.  I believe the photo of the Aspundia shows that it's splitting is more random.  

I have never been able to keep them alive all winter either in the house @ 60 F or in the greenhouse 5 or so degrees cooler.   They do make a great summer patio plant here in Ohio and everyone notices them.  And I've never seen them higher than $10.  Found two little Angels at Lowe's for 50 cents each on the clearance rack once!

Does anyone know how to keep them alive up north?!

Stan (Estan)

[Wai`anae Steve 18]

Thanks guys.  Seems we don't know which it is.  Anyway I put it in the ground yesteday between a Kukui Nut and an Australian Flame Tree.  Should get plenty of shade as the two trees grow and spread their cover.

Next picture same time in 2008 :-)

Buy the way I bought myself a 21'' Samsung LCD monitor for the "old" computer.  I like it.  I can now see all those wide pictures you guys sometimes post and all the text seems to fit on the screen also.  WOO HOO, no more scrolling left and right.  

[Wai`anae Steve 18]

(WaianaeSteve @ Dec. 28 2007,22:47)

QUOTE

Buy the way I bought myself a 21'' Samsung LCD monitor for the "old" computer.  I like it.  I can now see all those wide pictures you guys sometimes post and all the text seems to fit on the screen also.  WOO HOO, no more scrolling left and right.  

I take it back.  Matty just posted some Teddy Bear pictures that are wider than the screen.  Still had to scroll to see read the text.

Maybe I need to adjust the screen size one more.  

[Wai`anae Steve 18]

  Ok, reset to 1280 x 720 and I can see and read Matty's entire post  

[Kim 3,266]

The plant Carludovica 'Jungle Drum' is under consideration for a downsloping area, part shade, part sun in Hawaii. Wondering if these grow any taller than 4 feet? I'd like to look down on the large leaves from the top of the slope, which won't work if they get taller than 4 feet.

Can we get an update? (Plants I looked at were labeled, so I presume ID will be correct.)

[Jeff in St Pete 715]

Hi Kim,

Both Carludovica palmata and Asplundia rigida are native to Costa Rica and grow all through the forests here.

Carludovica is a clumper that grows in both full sun or shade and can handle dry periods. It can grow to heights of about 12 feet (4 meters). There are at least two different species in Costa Rica - C. palmata and C. rotundifolia. Carludovica is the true "Panama Hat" as the leaves were used as hats during the construction of the Panama Canal.

Asplundia rigida (or Jungle Drum) is an understory plant and will burn in full sun (full sun in Costa Rica). I have never seen any taller than 4 to 5 feet (1.2 to 1.5 meters). They normally grow in wet, shady understories.

These are definitely two different plants, yet they are often confused for one another.

[Kim 3,266]

Thanks for the disambiguation Jeff! Sounds like what I really want is the Asplundia...

[paulgila 194]

"disambiguation?" love it!

[paulgila 194]

is it the same as "unobfuscation?"

[Kim 3,266]

is it the same as "unobfuscation?"

Okay, 'clarification'. Sorry, it just popped out of nowhere. I've been reading too many Wikipedia articles... But it's a fun word to say. Try it, the way it rolls off the tongue! Sublime!

[paulgila 194]

i love "new" words like that!

[Donald Sanders 30]

I have been growing cyclanthus for many years. Generally, asplundia sp. are your climbing cyclanthus and other cyclanthus like carludovica are terrestrial. Jungle drum a recent introduction to commercial horticulture, to me it is a variety of cyclanthus bipartitus, a beautiful family of terrestrial plants common in the forest of Central America, especially Costa Rica where I have often observied many variations. My research leads me to believe that there is little information about cultivating this family of plants.

I grow about 6 species of cyclanthus. Difficult to find and few specialize in growing this plant. Believe me when I say I have spent hours in libraries and on the internet studying who is growing this family, sources for obtaining different varieties, etc. There is not many of us out there who share my fascination growing cyclanthus. Research shows that there are at least 80 variations of asplundia(Harling). I have 2.

Jungle Drum,(to me cyclanthus bipartitus) grows in Hawaii about 4ft., suckers, likes humid shade and is beautiful! Check out the c.bipartitus with the huge V shaped leaves on petioles that can be 4 ft. if it reaches for light in the shade. One of my favorites. There is one like that with folds on the V that I have seen wild in Costa Rica and at the botanical garden in Carins, Australia. I collected a small piece of it, in Costa Rica, nursed it for a year and the one small leave I got to grow did not make it.

There are stories I heard many years ago about botanists that saw a fan like palm in the distant in the jungle, spent time to find it, saw it was not a palm to their disappointment. Perhaps this added to the lack of interest from palm growers.

I am surprised that here in Hawaii, Carludovica palmata,(panama hat plant) is not used more in landscape design, it is so beautiful. Other varieties of this plant are impressive. In Costa Rica, at Zoo Ave, there are several other species of it on display, in pots and in the ground.

Rarepalmseeds.com sells seed of different asplundia and Carludivica.

I'd love to try to grow them from seed. I have not been able to put together an order large enough to procure the seed.

A close friend of mine in New Zealand is growing an interesting asplundia from S. America in his cool climate. Climbing beautifully.

I hope to return to Costa Rica and collect cyclanthus.

Although many species are plentiful in Costa Rica, I was surprised how little it was represented in the Amazon region of Brazil. Lancifolia ludovica (spelling) was both terrestrial and in the trees there. I grow it only on the ground.

I am surprised that the climbing asplundia is so slow. I presume that perhaps it's rarity in the Amazon may be because it prefers a more cool mountainous environment. However I did observe it there, but if was limited.

Aside from palms, cyclanthus and pandanus are my favorite plants and the thrust of my horticultural interests.

I would be very anxious to communicate with any one about this wonderful family of tropical plants.

Unfortunately I have no knowledge about the cold tolerance of this plant, I live at 1500' on the west side of the Big Island. My climate here is almost exactly the same as the Costa Rican mountain forest where this plant thrives. Never, never much above 85f or below say 56f.

I hope to hear from others. Mahalo, Donald Sanders

[Eric in Orlando 3,919]

Cyclanthus bipartitus is a different plant than the commercial "Jungle Drum", here is one at Fairchild;

[Donald Sanders 30]

Thank you for posting the beautiful photo of cyclanthus bipartitus.

Do you have any photos of some of the other types of cyclanthus bipartitus, of which Jungle Drum is one of? There are many!

I do not have the exact specifics at hand, but some years ago, Jungle Drum was grown in mass through cloning by a group with a name

similar to "Agro Resources" sorry I can't recall the exact name, any way they were offering very small clones grown in flats by the thousands

very inexpensive, again I can't recall the price as this was at least 10 years ago. I discovered them in my research and they were

labeling it as a cyclanthus bipartitus, then, correctly so. Perhaps before the commercial nomenclature 'Jungle Drum.' A way more commercial name.

Remember that there are only a few growers in the world that are focusing on this large family of neo-tropical plants. New research, new nomenclature, and more new plant material is really needed if one wants to get really scientific. Perhaps even DNA studies! (if your are that picky)

For now, until adequately corrected, I, with all of my experience, research and correspondence with the few who voraciously collect and nurture the Cyclanthus genera, feel that this beautiful relatively new introduction to contemporary tropical horticulture, 'Jungle Drum' is a variation

of cyclanthus bipartitus.

I have been growing cyclanthus for almost 30 years. First in my greenhouse in S.Cal, and for the last 23 years here on the Big Island of Hawaii.

I am always glad to share my experience growing tropical plants and the specifics of my research.

I am delighted to see that some growers in S.Cal having success growing Carludovica Palmata, outside.

Thank you again for the beautiful photo of cyclanthus bipartitus growing at the Fairchild. Hopefully, in the future there will be more plant material available for us to study.

Mahalo, Donald Sanders

[Jeff in St Pete 715]

Donald, thanks for all the info! There's very little info available on any of these plants.

Here are a couple photos of a wide leafed version of Cyclanthus bipartitus taken at a local spice farm.

And here is the plant I know as Asplundia. This is the one sold at the box stores in FL as "Jungle Drum". The new leaf unfurls pink!

[aussiearoids 333]

Local Cairns Nursery , Equatorial Exotics has a few interesting forms of these . There is a climbing one listed on 'the popular internet auction site ' at the moment [ in Australia ]

One pictured on the gallery attached to equatorialexotics.com

is this amazing one that grows in full sun.

Aplundia martiana

I also have one from them that looks very much like a small palm .

This sp. recently flowered for me with typical amazing hairy infl.

[Tropicgardener 275]

Mick the one in the second photo is one I had growing in Bundy where it did pretty well.

[realarch 4,382]

Wow! The Cyclanthus in the first two photos in post # 30 are incredible. What a specimen.

[tropicbreeze 695]

Here's the one I bought labelled Carludovica palmata, but it was cheap, about $8.99. I thought it was the Asplundia, which costs a lot more, so I got it. It's a couple of years old now (one year at my place) and going well.