Coconut Growing Farthest From Equator

[elHoagie 275]

Mine has a long way to go before I'd call it a survivor, but it's been in the ground for 15 months now. It had no problems at all the first winter, which was a little cooler than normal. It's already produced three new leaves this spring/summer, and it's working on a fourth right now. Hopefully it will continue to grow well. I'm at 34 deg 6 minutes north...

[Neofolis 11]

I would think in mainland Europe somewhere like Algeciras in southern Spain has about the best chance. At 36°08' N it has average January temps of 16°C/61°F high amd 11°C/52°F low. I don't have record figures, but based on it's location, it probably doesn't deviate enormously from those figures. On the other hand, it only sees daytime averages over 20°C/68°F from May to October. January also has an average of 121.9mm/4­¾" rainfall.

[bubba 1,536]

If Jack's survives long term,it looks like he will have the record.Maybe John or perhaps Maurice in Southern Spain or Greece can update.Another suspect could be Sydney or South of Perth,further South than Tyrone country!

[John in Andalucia 629]

Here's a photo update of my Cocos, taken today. It's been quite slow since it got to this stage. Remember Kai in the Netherlands too. Here are some visuals of his Cocos nucifera.

[Pivi 9]

John, what this is cocos nucifera? Come on

Maybe Voanioala gerardii?

[John in Andalucia 629]

John, what this is cocos nucifera? Come on

Maybe Voanioala gerardii?

No Pivi, that's definitely a coconut, the good, old supermarket variety. The vermiculite is to make up for the lacking mesocarp, and to keep the emerging roots covered. The pot is just over a foot wide at the rim.

[Pivi 9]

pot is a foot wide? foot in diameter?

Then this is one small coconut

[John in Andalucia 629]

No Pivi, it is an average-sized, supermarket coconut.

[Pivi 9]

isn't average sized supermarket coconut around 10-15 centimetres.

This one looks like 5. At least one the pictures if pot is a foot wide.

Next time let's see the whole nut

Edited July 21, 2008 by Pivi

[John in Andalucia 629]

isn't average sized supermarket coconut around 10-15 centimetres.

This one looks like 5. At least one the pictures if pot is a foot wide.

Next time let's see the whole nut

Pivi,

Here is a photo of it before it was potted up. Are you happy now?

[Paco 1]

John!! yours could have a chance to survive, mine for sure will not survive our wet winter. Any way it is growing quickly, even though

we are not having a real summer at all, temperatures are arround 22ºC when they use to be arround 35ºC at this time of the year. My coconut comes from the supermarket too, hahaha.

Best wishes.

[Pivi 9]

Pivi,

Here is a photo of it before it was potted up. Are you happy now?

[bubba 1,536]

John,I know you are a purist but could you not locate a 5 footer from the Canaries and plant it next to your potted Coconut?

[John in Andalucia 629]

John,I know you are a purist but could you not locate a 5 footer from the Canaries and plant it next to your potted Coconut?

Being the purist, I would naturally construct my own Kon-Tiki raft, and sail there to fetch one back.

[Tassie_Troy1971 1,149]

Hey i thought the coconut had to have the outer green on it before it would germinate and not just the hard shell !!

[John in Andalucia 629]

Hey i thought the coconut had to have the outer green on it before it would germinate and not just the hard shell !!

Troy,

They will germinate if you're lucky enough. Once potted up, it helps to keep the endocarp well covered. On moist sand/soil and exposed to sunlight, the unprotected endocarp can easily split, since it has no fibrous mesocarp to control the expanding and contracting that occurs without it. The "outer green" is the exocarp.

Useful link: Edible Palm Fruits

[bubba 1,536]

I now believe the most likely suspect for growing the furthest Norther Coconut will be the Azores.The Latitude is between 37/39 North and it's climate is directly affected by the warm waters of the Gulfstream.While not as warm as Bermuda,take a look at Michael's Travel Log on the Azores for tropical specifics.Using Cristobal's techniques,I believe world record success is possible.

[sur4z 407]

HERE IS A HOUSE A FRIEND OF MINE IS BUILDING ON SANTA MARIA...LOOKS A LITTLE DESOLATE.

[Lauriek 2]

I had a small coconut growing in a pot in my garden - very sheltered warm and facing north.

Latitude of Melbourne is 37*49'S.

I moved it to the front porch which also faces north and someone stole it!

[hulagalnz9 1]

I had a small coconut growing in a pot in my garden - very sheltered warm and facing north.

Latitude of Melbourne is 37*49'S.

I moved it to the front porch which also faces north and someone stole it!

<---hugging Laurie ......whaat? freaking lil pea brained thieves!! I hope the get white fly "everywhere"

[iamjv 115]

Are there no coconuts planted in the south of Spain??? Like in Marbella or Torremolinas???? Is the climate warm enougth there... I see they do have some historic record cold temps that would kill a coocnut.... Jv

[Granca 2]

Are there no coconuts planted in the south of Spain??? Like in Marbella or Torremolinas???? Is the climate warm enougth there... I see they do have some historic record cold temps that would kill a coocnut.... Jv

In the south of Spain (Andalucian) the coconut palms always died. I heard about a coconut palm in Almuñecar 36º 44' (Granada) but it was covered with plastics in winter...

Is possible there are some coconut palm in Porto Santo Island (north of Madeira) 33ºN but I don´t know if there are some in Azores...

[MartinM 0]

Since we are on the subject of SoCal palms does anyone have any (current) pictures of the one in San Clemente or Newport Beach? The last pictures I seen someone did one heck of a prune job.

By the way San Diego Zoo has had one in the ground for a few years. Its on the south side of a building in the reptile area. I sent an E-mail to the keepers and they responded saying they put it there a few years back because it out grew the greenhouse it was in. It doesnt look happy but its alive, It looks like its starting to establish.

[edric 628]

These are growing in New Smyrna Beach, Florida, on the north causway, going to the beachside, Ed

[bubba 1,536]

Checking Ponta Delgada,Azores for Nov/2008,Dec/2008 and Jan/2009 so far:

Nov/2008-High-71F;Low-53F/Average=64F

Dec/2008-High-68 F;Low-50F/Average=60F

Jan/2009-(so far)-High-66F;Low-50F/Average=60F

Latitude/37.7 North

Are Coconuts possible?

[garrin 34]

Ocean currents certainly do make a difference! Lima, Peru is only about 10 deg south of the equator, and while a few coconuts are growing all the ones I have seen there, especially in the new ocean front beach parks, looked quite stunted. One exception is a very nice coco palm growing a central park square right near the edge of the beautifully restored old colonial section of central Lima. That cold Humboldt Current from Antartica on the west coast of South America makes the climate of the area there of just 10 deg south latitude more like Santa Barbara, CA, than the tropics. There is a bit of summer heat and humidity, but otherwise there is cold ocean fog which moves inland at night and sometimes stays. A bit farther south of Lima where the cold current is less in evidence (perhape farther from the coast) like at Ica where ones flies out to see the Nasca Lines there are many very healthy and beautiful coconut palms where they can be irrigated. This area is in the northern reaches of the Atacama Desert -- reputed to be the driest place on our planet.

[Granca 2]

In Madeira Island 32º 38' N

Maybe in Azores is possible too...

[siafu 3]

The Azores are not warm enough for Coconuts to grow.

However, volcanism is still very much active in these islands. There

are places in most islands where the soil is warm to the touch and water boils in pools.

There is a sheltered valley, in the largest island, that almost looks like Hawaii from a distance.

The soil is rich and deep and stream carry warm water down to the sea.

It would interesting to try growing a coconut there...

[Palmateer 9]

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[epicure3 93]

Also Bubba.

Further to the Onassis' question:

Onassis private island is called Skorpios. It is located in Northwest Greece, South of Patras. The lattitude is 38 degrees, USDA 10a, winter water temps as high as maybe 17. Those temps are still warmer than the water across the street from the Newport Beach coconut.

Onassis spent 5 years with a large crew building his island paradise. He had unlimited resources - BILLIONS of dollars, a shipping empire, hell even an international airline - which by the way, is the only domestic service to function within a nation composed largely of islands ( the standard joke in Greece is that passenger planes often land on islands with nothing more than a crew and a shipment of Athens newspapers ).

Bringing 100 or 200 coconut trees to turn his island retreat into a miniature Jamaica would have been no problem for this man. Repeating the process every year would also not be a problem.

One further note, pictures of the island I have located via google show little sign of any palm other than what appears to be a standard mature edible date palm - readily avaialable, 150% hardy and cheap as hell. Perhaps pictures exist of a Coconut-lined beach, but I haven't seen one.

You can correct me on this since you live in Greece, but I would think that the south coast of Crete wuld be your best chance of growing coconuts.

[mlovecan 66]

Hi Epicure,

On the pure basis of latitude, Southern Crete can't be disputed.

I have been in with discussion with a Cretan palm lover ( he's growing 150 species ) about RPW.

Our discussions have been limited to RPW at the moment ( our problem has clearly reached epidemic proportions ). When I get a chance, I will ask him about any attempts he has made or knows of.

Southern Crete is slightly warmer than us. However, our water temperatures are a fair bit higher warmer than theirs on my side of Rhodes. In Prassinissi ( Southern tip of Rhodes ) where the Aegean Sea meets the mediterranean, the temperature difference is quite clear. I like to think our water temperatures give Rhodes a big advantage ( although the opposite may be true due to the warm waters contribution to winter rainfall ).

One more factor that I put to our advantage in Rhodes is the fact we are statistically the sunniest place in Greece as well as the whole of Europe ( 308 days of sun per year on average ). Greek mythology refers to Rhodes as the home of Helios ( god of the sun ).

Regards

Maurice

Edited March 5, 2009 by mlovecan

[bubba 1,536]

Maurice,Please go for it! You and John from Andulsia will battle for the trophy unless we find someone growing a Coconut in Eureka.

[JEFF IN MODESTO 387]

I always throught that soil temps above 60f and winter air temps above freezing were the primary environmental factors when attempting to grow a coconut .... But there has got to be more to it.

This past winter I did an experiment.

To Begin with, early last spring I planted 3 dwarf Malay seeds, each into its own 15 gal pot filled wih store bought potting soil.... Kept them indoors to sprout.

By Late April, They had all grown at least one leaf I put them into the full sun outdoors at a time when the days were around 73f and the night in the upper 40's.... They continued to grow fine. And all summer long our hot desert climate with 100f plus happening on many days..... and we had extremly low humidity which is the norm in the valley.

All three palms grew quite rapidly.

About Thanksgiving time when the nights started to get cold, I brought 2 of the palms indoors under a fouresant light for the winter.

The third one I plancesd on an electric seed warming mat and wrapped the entire pot with a blanket for insulation. That kept the roots at the bottom of the pot around 90f all during the winter and at the soil surface at 63f to 70 degrees... warm even during our coldest spells. It was placed in a warm spot on my covered patio close my house.

Our days this winter were a little above average... Dec was about 56f/39f average and Jan was 60f/39f average.

22 days in Dec/Jan were above 60f for highs.... still , by the middle of Jan... the palm was dead. The lowest temps the leaves experienced were 35f. And the soil never dropped below 63f

My conclusion, not only must the soil stay warm during the winter for them to survive.... Also the air temp must be warm enough for leaf growth, which apparently was not the case with my experiment. My air temp was too cold for survival.

The 2 indoors palms are doing fine..... my experimentations will continue. They go back outside in a week or so.

Jeff

[bubba 1,536]

Jeff,That is the kind of experimentation that is bound to yield results.I believe Coconuts stop photosynthesis at either 50F or 60F.It is not a cold night or two that kills the coconut in Ca. or other Mediterrean climates but rather the long string of temperatures below 50F even though there is no frost.They thrive in natural hot/humid places and do not like the cool.That stated,folks like you innovating can overcome almost any apparent issue.

[mlovecan 66]

Jeff,That is the kind of experimentation that is bound to yield results.I believe Coconuts stop photosynthesis at either 50F or 60F.It is not a cold night or two that kills the coconut in Ca. or other Mediterrean climates but rather the long string of temperatures below 50F even though there is no frost.They thrive in natural hot/humid places and do not like the cool.That stated,folks like you innovating can overcome almost any apparent issue.

Interesting comments Bubba. Perhaps others could expand on them.

Our "winter" - December thru February- has now passed and we are experiencing daily highs

of > 70

Bearing Bubba's information in mind I have compiled the following weather data:

Month Days Hi < 60 Days Hi < 50 Days low < 50 Lowest Temp

December 3 0 10 41

January 6 0 6 41

February 16 0 16 42

Bear in mind, 14 of the 16 February days that did not reach 60 and we dipped under 50 at night were back-to-back and accompanied by quite a bit of rain.

Perhaps Bubba, Tyrone and others can comment on this data and my chances to be successful with a "proper" coconut tree and not just the Dutch greenhouse-produced supermarket variety that come out of summer quite worse for wear.

[elHoagie 275]

Bearing Bubba's information in mind I have compiled the following weather data:

Month Days Hi < 60 Days Hi < 50 Days low < 50 Lowest Temp

December 3 0 10 41

January 6 0 6 41

February 16 0 16 42

Bear in mind, 14 of the 16 February days that did not reach 60 and we dipped under 50 at night were back-to-back and accompanied by quite a bit of rain.

Perhaps Bubba, Tyrone and others can comment on this data and my chances to be successful with a "proper" coconut tree and not just the Dutch greenhouse-produced supermarket variety that come out of summer quite worse for wear.

Maurice - that looks pretty similar to my average winter, here are similar numbers for my location this year:

Dec: 10 days with hi below 15C, 1 day with hi below 10C, 19 days with low below 10C, extreme low 3C

Jan: 1 day with hi below 15C, 0 days with hi below 10C, 14 days with low below 10C, extreme low 5C

Feb: 7 days with hi below 15C, 0 days with hi below 10C, 15 days with low below 10C, extreme low 3C

In general I think this winter has been a little cooler than average (except for a very warm January). I've had a Cocos in the ground for two years now and it's been growing quite well. Also, I've never given the Cocos any protection from rain or cold.

[mlovecan 66]

Yes Jack, I would say your winter is quite comparable to mine.

However, in my time in California ( 91 thru 93 ), I only saw the once - early February 92 when California rains could be comparable to our winter rains ( they were plucking people off the roofs of their flooded cars with helicopters ). I don't think I can avoid some form of rain protection.

What I am envisioning is a 4' x 4' slab of black marble ( fortunately marble here is as cheap as rocks) with a hole cut in the middle for the palm.

I saw some holland greenhouse-grown cocos at a Budapest building center last week.

Might as well just pick a couple up today bring them home to Greece next week. I'll have my gardener work with them through to June and then just take the best of the two for the marble treatment. If the worse of the two is not looking so bad, I will just plant it on a friend's beach property and see what happens.

As John mentioned in posting his newly-acquired coco on another thread, now is the best time for acclimation, our temps are only starting to warm up - 70-75 vs. summertime 100-120 - frying them would be more difficult right now.

[mlovecan 66]

Ok Bubba,

After sitting out on trying to grow a coconut for 4 years now, I'm back in the game.

Cost: about 17 Euro, 20 cents...what have I got to loose.

Edited March 7, 2009 by mlovecan

[mlovecan 66]

The source of my Cocos ( and many, many sold around europe ) :

http://www.cocospalm.nl/producten.html

Edited March 7, 2009 by mlovecan

[bubba 1,536]

Maurice,You,John and Jack going for the trophy! Watch out for those Kiwi's,Tazmainian's or Azorians growing out volcano holes.To the victor go the spoils!Do It!