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Coconut Growing Farthest From Equator

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GottmitAlex
18 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

Probably better @Tyrone and @sandgroper give their first hand experiences, as I'm only a visitor ( and casual observer ) of Perth gardens. But the Perth region, being a Mediterranean climate, receives the majority of their rainfall in the winter months ( the cold gloomy wet chilly miserable winter months if you are a visitor from Darwin at 12*S of the equator....haha ). So the ground is wet and cold ( relatively ) during winter, which by general consensus is not particularly conducive to successful coconut growth. However, the notoriously barren and sandy Perth soils, which really are just about pure sand, means that during the colder wetter months of winter, the coconut root systems do not stand in water, therefor don't succumb to root rot. Perth ( or parts thereof away from the coast ) can get quite cold on winter nights, even occasional frosts, but winter days rarely dip below 10c ( 50f ) and generally hover around 17c-21c.
That was the long answer, short answer is 'Drainage in Winter'
Climate stats for Port Macquarie and Perth.
95608899_245888476613894_7803043360138067968_n.jpg.83b0889b4fee49dc052b233767008a02.jpg 94762083_565244711093744_1487093565375905792_n.jpg.80b80e52ffd88a403d5c0147108a63f6.jpg

Darn! I asked for a tad bit more info than what you previously mentioned. Not for the encyclopedia.  My hat's off to you mate. 

Alex:greenthumb:

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greysrigging
1 minute ago, GottmitAlex said:

Darn! I asked for a tad bit more info than what you previously mentioned. Not for the encyclopedia.  My hat's off to you mate. 

Alex:greenthumb:

Haha... Coronavirus isolation=lots of spare time....:greenthumb:

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sandgroper

Perth really is built on sand, hence the colloquialism of Western Australians being known as "sandgropers" in other parts of Australia. For those non Aussies, a sandgroper is as small creature common in Western Australia which borrows through the sand. Our soil really isn't soil, it is free draining sand, it is virtually beach sand as the Swan coastal plain, where Perth is located, was once part of the seafloor and river bed. It doesn't matter how much rain we get it drains straight through. All part of the fun!

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kutsalangemon

I think coconut farthest issue mostly depends on how to plant the tree. If you plant coconut and enclose with concrete It may probably grow in Mediterranean climate since connection between roots and winter showers blocked by concrete.  It of course will not be like the trees in tropical climate areas and live shorter than average. There was smn in California in this forum already applied this method as far as I remember. 

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Tyrone
17 hours ago, greysrigging said:

Probably better @Tyrone and @sandgroper give their first hand experiences, as I'm only a visitor ( and casual observer ) of Perth gardens. But the Perth region, being a Mediterranean climate, receives the majority of their rainfall in the winter months ( the cold gloomy wet chilly miserable winter months if you are a visitor from Darwin at 12*S of the equator....haha ). So the ground is wet and cold ( relatively ) during winter, which by general consensus is not particularly conducive to successful coconut growth. However, the notoriously barren and sandy Perth soils, which really are just about pure sand, means that during the colder wetter months of winter, the coconut root systems do not stand in water, therefor don't succumb to root rot. Perth ( or parts thereof away from the coast ) can get quite cold on winter nights, even occasional frosts, but winter days rarely dip below 10c ( 50f ) and generally hover around 17c-21c.
That was the long answer, short answer is 'Drainage in Winter'
Climate stats for Port Macquarie and Perth.
95608899_245888476613894_7803043360138067968_n.jpg.83b0889b4fee49dc052b233767008a02.jpg 94762083_565244711093744_1487093565375905792_n.jpg.80b80e52ffd88a403d5c0147108a63f6.jpg

Yes, that’s pretty much it. Perth rarely gets maximums in winter below 16C. But in winter Perth has about 3 times the rainfall of the east coast. Sydney winters can be sunnier and a bit drier in my experience. 

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ego

Hi everyone

I was wondering if you had any success with the coconut trees in Rhodes, Greece? 

I am a bit surprised everyone talks about temperatures. To me it seems that humidity would be another important factor. I guess a coconut in southern Spain for instance would suffer from the dry summer air. What do you think?

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EastCanadaTropicals

Maybe in a very sheltered spot, they can live in Gibraltar.

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philinsydney

Here is the southernmost coconut in central Australia; I'm pretty sure of that. It is about 100 km south of Tennant Creek. There are also some old cars if anyone is interested in restoration.

wauchope roadhouse 1.jpg

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wauchope roadhouse 3.jpg

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RedRabbit
On 1/31/2021 at 10:10 AM, ego said:

Hi everyone

I was wondering if you had any success with the coconut trees in Rhodes, Greece? 

I am a bit surprised everyone talks about temperatures. To me it seems that humidity would be another important factor. I guess a coconut in southern Spain for instance would suffer from the dry summer air. What do you think?

Based on what I’ve seen from visiting the Mediterranean, Andalusia appeared to be the best place for tropical palms. I’ve learned from others on here that coconuts have only managed to live a few years at a time in there and are eventually killed by an extended cold spell just like in SoCal. 

Rhodes is worth a try. Places like Malta and Rhodes aren’t bad and I recall them having some impressive ficus, but not much in the way of palms. I’m not to optimistic the Mediterranean can support coconuts, except possibly on the southern coast. 

Edited by RedRabbit
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EastCanadaTropicals
On 12/7/2010 at 10:37 AM, greekpalm said:

from what i've seen is that coconut palms need USDA 11 to survive and thrive (somewhat) and maybe if very lucky and in some circumstances in upper zone 10b...

there are no zone 11 that i know of in Europe (with exception the canary islands who are territory of Spain but are 1200km south of Spain ,I consider it as Africa)

 

does anyone know if there is a zone 11 in Europe ?

 Malta and some microclimates in Cyprus are 11a.

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pietropuccio
5 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

 Malta and some microclimates in Cyprus are 11a.

9b, maximum 10a in particularly protected corners, the European climate maps on the net are only wishful thinking (unfortunately!).

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EastCanadaTropicals
15 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

9b, maximum 10a in particularly protected corners, the European climate maps on the net are only wishful thinking (unfortunately!).

What about Malta?

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EastCanadaTropicals
15 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

9b, maximum 10a in particularly protected corners, the European climate maps on the net are only wishful thinking (unfortunately!).

So what is the most accurate Europe hardiness zone map?

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RedRabbit
16 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

9b, maximum 10a in particularly protected corners, the European climate maps on the net are only wishful thinking (unfortunately!).

Much of coastal Europe is z10 with a few pockets of z11. Even Seville, which is pretty far inland, is still technically 10b. 

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bubba

PM Maurice(sp?) is on an island South of Rhodes and has always maintained, unfortunately, that the Cocos nucifera is doubtful on his island. The new Malta effort may cause him to get back on the train.

I agree with Rabbit that I find Andulusia compelling. Watching Alex and others, in California and other areas, causes me to believe that the range of Cocos nucifera will expand!

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pietropuccio
16 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Much of coastal Europe is z10 with a few pockets of z11. Even Seville, which is pretty far inland, is still technically 10b. 

In Mediterranean Europe there are no zones 10b or higher comparable to those of the USA, only 10a in particularly favorable and protected situations in the far south; it is not me who says it, but the plants. It is not possible to apply the USDA method to the Mediterranean climate without corrective measures, the method is based on the absolute minimum temperatures, in the Mediterranean area there are no particularly low minimums, and this leads to an overestimation of the zone, but about 100 days a year of constantly and moderately low temperatures that affect the survival of tropical and subtropical species. I "play" with tropical and sunbtropical plants for about 60 years, and I have come to the conclusion, if it helps, that precautionary results are obtained if, after applying the USDA method to the letter, you decrease by one zone, for example 10b --> 9b.

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bubba

Well stated and articulate pearl of wisdom!

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RedRabbit
11 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

In Mediterranean Europe there are no zones 10b or higher comparable to those of the USA, only 10a in particularly favorable and protected situations in the far south; it is not me who says it, but the plants. It is not possible to apply the USDA method to the Mediterranean climate without corrective measures, the method is based on the absolute minimum temperatures, in the Mediterranean area there are no particularly low minimums, and this leads to an overestimation of the zone, but about 100 days a year of constantly and moderately low temperatures that affect the survival of tropical and subtropical species. I "play" with tropical and sunbtropical plants for about 60 years, and I have come to the conclusion, if it helps, that precautionary results are obtained if, after applying the USDA method to the letter, you decrease by one zone, for example 10b --> 9b.

I wasn't suggesting it was the same, but the data is what it is. A 10b in Spain and SoCal are going to be roughly the same, but 10b in Florida is something very different.

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pietropuccio

- Bubba, Thanks!

- RedRabbit,

From the USDA site:
"Map is the standard by which gardeners and growers can determine which plants are most likely to thrive at a location."
If 10b in California is different from 10b in Florida how does the grower understand what he can grow?
However, Florida is the most advanced region in the experimentation on the hardiness of tropical plants, if we want some useful indications we must refer to the results obtained there. Personally I found a lot of correspondence between my modest experiences and those of Florida considering Palermo (Sicily) zone 9b at the limit of 10a. Two examples, for years I have in my garden a Hyophorbe lagenicaulis in a sheltered strip facing south only with a few small spots in the colder winters, plants of different ages that I tried a few meters away in the open position are inexorably dead, the same is for the Areca triandra.

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bubba

Koppen-Geiger- What grows/flourishes. USDA climate gives Zone 11 status to a climate that is a constant 40F year round. Poor system to gauge” what grows”!

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RedRabbit
2 hours ago, pietropuccio said:

- Bubba, Thanks!

- RedRabbit,

From the USDA site:
"Map is the standard by which gardeners and growers can determine which plants are most likely to thrive at a location."
If 10b in California is different from 10b in Florida how does the grower understand what he can grow?
However, Florida is the most advanced region in the experimentation on the hardiness of tropical plants, if we want some useful indications we must refer to the results obtained there. Personally I found a lot of correspondence between my modest experiences and those of Florida considering Palermo (Sicily) zone 9b at the limit of 10a. Two examples, for years I have in my garden a Hyophorbe lagenicaulis in a sheltered strip facing south only with a few small spots in the colder winters, plants of different ages that I tried a few meters away in the open position are inexorably dead, the same is for the Areca triandra.

That’s a serious flaw with the way USDA hardiness maps work. @bubba is right, Koppen is probably better.

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Maltese coconut project

Cocos nucifera in Malta latest updates 

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Maltese coconut project

Method of germinating Cocos nucifera I used in Malta. Phase one : 1) transparent plastic storage box with two slits cut in the lid 2) Aquarium heating cable and thermostat 3) food storage boxes filled with water 4) litter tray. Submerge heating cable with water. Then put coconuts in litter tray eyes facing the centre of litter tray (so that when defective one's leak it goes inside litter tray (

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Maltese coconut project

Growing coconut seedlings in Malta step two: 1) highest possible transparent plastic storage boxes with slit in lid 2) heating cable and thermostat 3) litter tray 4) pots filled with gravel. In both setup keep upper 20s temperature or 30 degrees celcius 

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Maltese coconut project

Interesting discussion here. I decided to share my experiments with you. I've been experimenting with coconut in a southern Mediterranean climate (Malta, location Attard coordinates 35.8905° N, 14.4199° E ) since September 2019. Here are some results 

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