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MattyB

Southern California

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PalmGuyWC

26.2 F at 5 AM, and two hours until daylight.  This is getting dicey. I'm hoping it will bottom out at 25F, otherwise I can expect damage.

Dick

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Kim

Low 41.1 this morning, clear and a distinct breeze.

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BS Man about Palms

Bummer Dick.  :(

40F here now

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spockvr6

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 27 2007,06:16)

QUOTE
Temp probe 2 feet off the ground

Dick-

I suspect that most others that report their readings are doing so at 4-6 ft above ground.  If the air is fairly still, there can be a tremendous differential with elevation above grade.

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doubravsky

My low was 32f. No frost as the wind blew pretty much all night... but definitely the coldest night of the season so far here...

where is spring?

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PalmGuyWC

No wind here, calm and clear as a bell. Looks like I botomed out at 25.5F......Just hope my temp probe is accurate. I hope this is the coldest I have this year. I can live with 25F but anything below that and I can expect damage.

Dick

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freakypalmguy

I hit 26F again. I too sometimes feel my gauge is wrong untill I go on weather underground and look at some of the home stations in my area and they say the same thing except for the stations that are surrounded by more homes, they read higher.

The problem I see with some of the forecasts is they are using data from readings inside the city (weather underground uses one near the mall) and there must be a radiant effect from the heat escaping from the buildings (happ??). I'm in a rural area so I would expect to be colder.

Matt

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osideterry

38.7F

Dick - My P. torallyi saw consecutive nights of 25 and 26 degrees last January with no damage. It still had a couple of strap leaves. I think it would have to hit more like 23F to see damage. I do hope this weather returns to more average lows.

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PalmGuyWC

Terry,

Actually, I did hit 23F twice last winter and had about 60% foliage damage on my P. T V T. I have a feeling anywhere below 25F and damage starts to show. I had many nights below freezing last winter and it could have been an accumilative thing too. Of course this year is not much better as most of Dec. I've had white frosts almost every morning, but this morning was the coldest.

I'm hoping once the P T V T grows a trunk and the crown is higher up from the cold air at the ground level, that it will do better.

Dick

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MattyB

Thursday December 27th.

This was my coldest night yet this year.

38.7F for a couple of hours before sunset.

Interesting that Terry and I had the exact same low.  Terry is usually quite colder than me.  Just goes to show you that there's so many variables that anything can happen at anytime. ???  I had no wind at anytime last night.

I walked down into my canyon @ 6:30am to look for frost but saw none.

I also looked on my route to work but because it was so dry there was no condensation at all on any cars, so it was too dry to make frost.  Typical  SoCal winter low.  Extremely dry air allows for nightime cooling but it's too dry to make frost.

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happ

45F/7.2c w/ fierce overnight wind  :( house is almost 100 yrs old w/o insulation

Quick look at RAWS data indicates above freezing widespread & 40's in most locations.  Normally the wind would maintain 50's overnight in foothills but this blast of Canadian Dry Cold is intense [reporting some snow in Seattle this morning.

Our weather has been dominated nearly all month by a persistent N-S trough aligned along interior West.  Though not Arctic air it won't allow zonal flow = mild Pacific air.  This week will end up being cold. What's left of the front moves in tomorrow/Friday [rain look iffy  :(

Next week, on the other hand will be a nice change: warm  :cool: finally

Matt

Sounds like you have a good sense of your climate.  NWS station must be in a more favorable location in Temecula but you know what your readings are.  

Matty

The absence of moisture prevents frost but plants still freeze, right?

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MattyB

Yeah Happ, last year when we had our devasting lows, I never had frost but on the coldest night I could see the cells freezing inside the plants leaves.  It looked like dark green patches but in wierd, random, frost like, patterns...inside the leaf, not on the surface.   :(

But for some reason it seems that most plants can take a colder temperature, without showing damage, as long as there's no frost present.  I haven't figured that one out yet. ???  Maybe because if there's frost sitting on the leaf then the ice can attach the plant cells by touching them.  And maybe the internal water in the cells of the plant have a salt content (and a bit of insulation, ie. cell walls) that give them a lower freezing temperature.  I'm just wondering out loud, I really don't know.

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osideterry

Weather.com keeps pushing higher lows and rain farther out. 40+ lows has been 2 days away and rain a week away for several days now.

Happ - are we stuck in a pattern they thought would move on by now?

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epicure3

Got down to 39 in my coldest location. 46 of the warmest. 39 is my coldest so far.

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MattyB

John, I assume the warm spot is the southside alley where the spindle and bottle are planted?  Dang, that microclimate just keeps on amazing me!  No wonder you can grow anything over there.

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happ

(osideterry @ Dec. 27 2007,13:45)

QUOTE
Happ - are we stuck in a pattern they thought would move on by now?

Stuck in a rut unfortunately but the pattern appears to be changing.  La Nina conditions have been unmerciful over the PacificNW with strong polar jet moving storms along at a fierce pace.  The trough allows these systems to move south into California but as “inside sliders” over the Great Basin.  Disconnected to a water source [Pacific Ocean] the storms become mainly wind events for SoCal as the southern most cold front of continental air sweep by.  Once in a while a low-pressure system breaks off from the jet stream & moves out over the ocean of SoCal/northern Baja.  In-fact, I believe all our rain this winter has been from dying storms that retrograde west over much warmer water, rejuvenate & come ashore.  

I haven’t tabulated data for December yet but am sure this will be a colder than normal month for both maximums & minimums.  For example, today’s maximums will barely reach 60F under sun-drenched skies.  Now that the wind is dying down tonight may be colder. However clouds will increase overnight as the front approaches & temps may actually rise by tomorrow morning [limiting freeze potential] but Friday will be chilly.

Long-range forecast is for warmer conditions as the trough breaks down next week.  Even possibility for rain next weekend [Jan 4-6].

Matty

Thanks for the info on plant cells.  The water content of frost must cool the plant surface [like sitting outside in wet swim trunks – ouch

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osideterry

I just had what you could call a "microburst" of intense wind. Out of nowhere, the wind accelerated enough to yank the umbrella out of my glass-topped patio table. It shattered, safety glass everywhere, including in the pool.

When I vacuumed the pool I checked the temperature - 49F. You could call 49F the mean air temp at my house right now.

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spockvr6

(osideterry @ Dec. 27 2007,16:47)

QUOTE
When I vacuumed the pool I checked the temperature - 49F. You could call 49F the mean air temp at my house right now.

Go jump in!

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Shon

Terry what does Weather.com call for you tonight? My area is being predicted to 31!. I was predicted for 33 last night but didn't go below 38. I brought in all the pots, close to 40 of them just to be sure. There is alot of cloud cover though.

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osideterry

I'll jump in... to the jacuzzi after an hour with the heat on!

Weather.com has me at 31F tonight now also. My forecast and actual was the same as yours for this morning. I have now moved 20+ pots in and out of the garage 3 times in 3 weeks. My right shoulder is seriously goofed up from hauling the 10-15 gallon ones.

If it's below 35F at 11am, my shoulder will have to deal with the pain.

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Walter John

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Shon

This is my first move since where my pots are has gone below 40 only 3 times. Well worth the time if it goes that low.

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MattyB

Wal you're evil! :D

Larry, you too! :)

Terry, I had a destroyed patio table umbrella incident too!  We learned that the umbrella had to be closed during any windy times because of it.  The sun's angle in the winter rendered the umbrella ineffective anyway so we just kept it closed unless we were out there using it.  Sorry to hear of the accident.

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Shon

Yea Wal, I could see how losing palms to cold would be funny.LOL. :D

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LJG

40.9 in coldest part. 44 in warmest - my courtyard. :)

Weather.com has me at 32° tonight. I should bring in my pots, but will probably be lazy.....

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epicure3

(MattyB @ Dec. 27 2007,15:54)

QUOTE
John, I assume the warm spot is the southside alley where the spindle and bottle are planted?  Dang, that microclimate just keeps on amazing me!  No wonder you can grow anything over there.

Yup....that's right. I just don't bother mentioning it since most wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

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Jim in Los Altos

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 27 2007,03:16)

QUOTE
Dec 27, 3 AM.  My previous low this season, a few days ago was 27.5F (-2.3C). Right now at 3 AM, it's 27F, and will probably hit 25F at daylight. Temp probe 2 feet off the ground next to my Parajubaea T V T. I didn't cover the Parajubaea, so we will see what low it will take.  I suspect there will be foliage damage below 25F. The Para. T V T is fully recovered from the freezes last year, and was nice and green last night and some fronds taller than my head. I was hoping it wouldn't get cold tested AGAIN this year!

Dick

Wow Dick, it's amazing what a little bay influence can do to warm things. My low last night was 38F. I haven't been below 34F yet this year. I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging because I'm definitely not. If I had a winter climate like they have in south Florida, I'd have something to brag about. It just shows some of the variation we have here in the Bay Area as far as microclimates are concerned.  It will be in the 40s tonight with rain. That's probably similar to what you can expect tonight, Dick.

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BS Man about Palms

I'm trying to decide if ignorance is bliss here.....  I may be folllowing the Len philosophy...........

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LJG

(BS, Man about Palms @ Dec. 27 2007,19:27)

QUOTE
I'm trying to decide if ignorance is bliss here.....  I may be folllowing the Len philosophy...........

I wussed out. Just brought a bunch into the garage. It is already 41 here. I bet I hit 36.

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galveston1602

Any of yall out wes ever use this site?  Im curious if it might take the topography into account.  If you know your exact lat/lon you can input it in the url and get an "exact" prediction

LOL thats an oxymoron.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/forecas....7.37861

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happ

(Jim in Los Altos @ Dec. 27 2007,21:04)

QUOTE

(PalmGuyWC @ Dec. 27 2007,03:16)

QUOTE
Dec 27, 3 AM.  My previous low this season, a few days ago was 27.5F (-2.3C). Right now at 3 AM, it's 27F, and will probably hit 25F at daylight. Temp probe 2 feet off the ground next to my Parajubaea T V T. I didn't cover the Parajubaea, so we will see what low it will take.  I suspect there will be foliage damage below 25F. The Para. T V T is fully recovered from the freezes last year, and was nice and green last night and some fronds taller than my head. I was hoping it wouldn't get cold tested AGAIN this year!

Dick

Wow Dick, it's amazing what a little bay influence can do to warm things. My low last night was 38F. I haven't been below 34F yet this year. I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging because I'm definitely not. If I had a winter climate like they have in south Florida, I'd have something to brag about. It just shows some of the variation we have here in the Bay Area as far as microclimates are concerned.  It will be in the 40s tonight with rain. That's probably similar to what you can expect tonight, Dick.

Jim, the San Ramon valley is higher & more land-locked than the Santa Clara valley.  Cold air draining down Mt. Diablo is trapped.  Data from Walnut Creek varies quite a bit.  Dick, is your location on the valley floor?

It is cold tonight; already below 50F/10c @ 9PM but the reliable night wind has kicked in plus the skies are beginning to get cloudy.  Dew point/relative humidity is below 20% but heat loss will temper overnight.

LA: 60F/15.5c

     45F/7.2c

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BS Man about Palms

(LJG @ Dec. 27 2007,20:50)

QUOTE

(BS @ Man about Palms,Dec. 27 2007,19:27)

QUOTE
I'm trying to decide if ignorance is bliss here.....  I may be folllowing the Len philosophy...........

I wussed out. Just brought a bunch into the garage. It is already 41 here. I bet I hit 36.

Yeah, me too.  Enoughfolks whinin' may mean something...

Only about 15 or so, Eckmanii included.....  so, basically a drop in the bucket.

42F out front, 40F in back  slightly breezy, about like tues night

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osideterry

It's 36F at 10pm here in the coldest spot in coastal Southern California. On the coldest night of 2007 it was 32F at 11pm.

I moved all my pots to my patio, under my second story deck. It's 40F there right now, buying me 4F.

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osideterry

33.8F at 11pm. Pots in garage. G'night all.

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PalmGuyWC

Happ,

I'm in the middle of the valley whlch is flat as a pancake, so when they say "frost in the interior valleys," I know that means me. I generally get some of the coldest and hottest temps. in the area.

Last year was strange though, because there were many lower temp readings in S. Calif. than those that I had. The Bay Area is chock full of micro climates just like S. Calif. Last year San Jose, which is south of me, and generally warmer, had some lows very similar to mine.

Yesterday (Dec 28), after the lowest temp. of the year (25.5) the clouds moved in, and right now it's drizzling and the temp. is stuck at 40.3F. I expect there will be a light powdering of snow on Mt. Diablo this morning.

Dick

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Kim

38.7 my low, now at 40.3 just after 6 AM.  I'm happy with that, I was sure it would be colder than the predicted 42.  

Wow, Terry, 33.8 last night at 11!  I'll be interested to read everyone's results this morning.

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freakypalmguy

27F at 6:50am here. Crystal clear, no breaze

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BS Man about Palms

34F at my coldest, 36F is probably more accurate, fairly breezy.

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PalmGuyWC

Matt, you and I seem to have similar temps. I'm really amazed that the "bubble" of cold air that passed over me yesterday reached you today, and only moderated 1.5 degrees. The clouds arrived here yesterday about 6 hours to late, as I expect they will reach you today.

Dick

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osideterry

30.6F at my chosen spot. Pleasantly surprised it only dropped 3 degrees after 11pm.

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