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MattyB

Southern California

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Don Little

Matt

Can you post pics of your sensors and radiation shields?  The pics to the links you show don't seem to deal with the wireless sensors at least from the pics I saw.  Where would the wireless sensors go and would you only use these if they were placed in an open location?  

Jack,

It would be great if you could post pics of yours to if you find one.  

Thanks,

Don

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happ

Official NWS instruments are as far from buildings as possible.  I know wx nerds who have placed remotes in open country among trees miles from the house.  Those are as "pure" as it gets except thermometers attached to piers/jetties/buoys.

I try to distance my instruments & capitalize on the best conditions possible.  North side during winter is good.  Don't put remotes under decks any time of year  :laugh: been there/done that

Believe we are experiencing the worse of the cold spell right now & tonight could get nasty in certain areas [Malibu Hills recorded 27F today.  Otherwise it should remain cold but above freezing in most areas.  Metro's [san Francisco/LA/San Diego] 40's.  

Kim, 38F in Point Loma this morning?  :o right on the bay [santa Monica pier/Malibu recorded 49F

The Pacific is quite active now with strong storms [mainly PacNW & Hawaii].  Models keep the trough [ie elongated depression of low pressure] positioned over the West Coast leaving the door open to Canada Cold :(  with rainfall of some sort next week

LA: 67F/45F [19.4c/7.2c  

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Kim

Happ, it's got to be my elevation, about 300 ft above sea level.  The Lindbergh Field measurements are taken at 14 ft above sea level, and they are consistently 4 degrees or so warmer than me.  I'm at the top of the point in a flat spot, just barely on the bay side.  My sensor is hanging on a fence post about 3 ft off the ground.  No fancy shelters for it, but not in sun or under cover.  Hey, I think it's wierd too.  Currently, I'm reading 44.8F.

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spockvr6

I dont know how you SoCal guys can figure the climates out!

I just drove from the Thousand Oaks area to Costa Mesa and carefully watched the car thermometer on the drive down.  It was all over the place!  On the 101 Freeway alone, I saw the temp vary from 45F to 59F!

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BS Man about Palms

I'm at 43F right now and depressed over the same mini-problem I had last year.  Since I fix heaters at this time of year, work wants me on the road early and doesn't care much about any "morning care" for my palms or moving I might like to do. So, I just put my P Eckmanii in and the Dammerops too.  (both recent pot-ups) they'll probably stay in for a few days.

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Kim

Better this morning; low was 39.

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BS Man about Palms

(Kim @ Dec. 13 2007,06:04)

QUOTE
Better this morning; low was 39.

Ditto here, I'm kinda suprised we are the same.

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osideterry

37F on my li'l quarter-acre.

In 2002-2003 my low was only 36F. It would be great if today were my low for 2007-2008.

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BS Man about Palms

my guy John Coleman last night that some clouds would come south late last night so it wouldn't be as cold, slight warming for the weekend, possibilty of a "dusting of rain on weds.

Right so far.

He calls these days a "SOSA"  = "Sort of Santa Ana" .   You get the sun and drier temps, clear to the Ocean, but not over the top hot or dry.

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elHoagie

Just under 8C (46F) for a low last night here.

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MattyB

43F last night here, on the hill, in the Valley of Springs.  

It's been 4 days sinced it last rained and water is still running like a full blast garden hose, coming out of the rocks, in many places around my neighborhood.  Viva Spring Valley!  I've gotta build a well. :cool:

Don, I don't really have traditional radiation shields on my sensors here at the new house.  I've got 2 outside right now.  One is mounted on the north side of my garden shed with a 2"-3" overhang above it, and the other is mounted on the north side on the trunk of a tree.  What serves as a radiation/rain shield for me is once I mount the sensor to the substrate, I put a small tupperware container over it.  but I've cut the bottom portion of the tupperware container off so the sensor is free to experience the air but rain/radiation from above is blocked.  I'll try and remember to take a picture.

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doubravsky

Got down to about 36f the last two nights out in Riverside... lowest temps so far. No frost though...

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happ

I was surprised that the minimum was only 47F this morning since the temperature dropped below 50F by 10PM last night.  There were some clouds from the remnants of a washed-out shortwave [weak storm] & usual night winds.  Noticed that the usual warm spots [ie Getty Center/Santa Monica pier] stayed above 50F overnight.

Minimums should continue to moderate into the weekend with increasing humidity & a shot at rainfall next week [we hope  :P

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Kim

Good morning.  39.7 was my low on the Point.  Currently 41.  This does seem very cold for December here.  Moved my H. lagenacaulis up to the south-exposed garage wall for warmth.

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BS Man about Palms

36F :(  J. Coleman said he sees it more or less continuing like this into the new year....  :angry:

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osideterry

34.7F. My new season low.

Yesterday I worked at home, and ran the sprinklers manually around 11am.

I FORGOT TO TURN THE CLOCK OFF!

This morning at 5am everything got a nice watering. I'm so lucky it wasn't 3-4F colder. Still kicking myself.

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freakypalmguy

I'm on the road right now, but my wife says it's been light frost at my house for the last two days. She has been putting the frost cloth over my Beccariophoenix a. every night for me. My ten day shows low to mid 30's. I'm getting nervous. My Temps have been around 29F to 32F for almost a week now. Sob, sob, sob...........

Matt

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MattyB

43F low temp this morning in Spring Valley at the ranch of death.  Time to stay snuggles in bed with the ranch hand, no wakey wakey.  Hyaphorbe vershafeltii is still growing, slowly, but it's still moving about 2mm a day.

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osideterry

Will my palms forgive me? Is it possible the water was actually warmer than the air and they liked it? (right)

Last years freeze took out everything sensitive, so not too worried.

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MattyB

Don't worry Terry.  One cold watering won't kill them.  Just make sure they have a nice week or however long it takes to drain.  It's the prolonged cold and wet that they just rot out in.  Then again, Majesties and Kings seem to do ok.  Teddy Bears too.

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osideterry

I water my potted palms by hand, so my container collection only caught a little overspray.

The rest of the winter I'm manually running the sprinklers on the weekend only. The chance of accidently coating everything with ice is frightening.

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MattyB

Yeah, but at least ice is insulation.  It might be 32 on the leaf but 25 outside in the air.  Just trying to be optimistic.

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happ

It wasn't suppose to be as cold as it was this morning 44F and the reason was lack of wind:

NWS-LA 12-14-07 900h

OFFSHORE WIND WAS OVER FORECASTED BY THE MODELS... AS A RESULT WINDS ARE QUITE WEAK OVER THE AREA...DID ADJUST LOWS DOWN FOR TONIGHT/SAT MORNING AS IT LOOKS LIKE LOWS WILL BE A BIT COOLER FOR THE MOST PART THAN THE ALREADY CHILLY TEMPS WE SAW THIS MORNING.  THE LOS ANGELES VALLEYS WILL FLIRT WITH A FROST ADVISORY..THOUGH IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE ONE WILL BE NEEDED SINCE  BELOW FREEZING TEMPS WILL LIKELY NOT BE WIDESPREAD AND CONFINED TO THE WESTERN PORTIONS OF THE SAN FERNANDO VALLEY  :o

Only Malibu stayed above 50F overnight & downtown recorded 42F.  Valley areas were mostly in the 30's.  Tonight even the LA Basin may record minimums in the 30's [Redondo Beach dropped to 39F this morning.

This is very cold for so early in the winter  :o

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bubba

In monitoring temperatures closely for High/Lows,I expected much more high temp. stuff from Ca.I am sure this will all change.Does anyone have any guess or scientific hypothesis about why it has been this cold in Ca. this time of year and what it portends?

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osideterry

Bubba - November was cool, but our December temps so far this year are pretty average for SoCal. My historic hi and low are 64F and 44F for today. Our morning lows are due (as Bill mentioned) to a Sort-Of-Santa-Ana.

We see higher temps during a real Santa Ana. That's a rollercoaster ride you wouldn't enjoy, with temp swings of 40-50F a day. I saw 30s and 80s in the same day several times last year.

I'm liking this December weather so far. Nice mix of rain and sun. Last year I had dipped below freezing 2-3 times by now.

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Shon

I did a little experiment last night and put two gauges about fifteen feet from each other.I got two different readings by three degrees. Same elevation and everything.When you are in the 30's 3degrees makes a big difference. Is there a chance there is something that could cause a false low?

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Jim in Los Altos

34F here this moning. Temps will be on the rise for several days as a series of Pacific storms blankets our area. periods of light to moderate rain expected all next week with highs and lows in the low to upper 50s. Looks like no frost or freezing weather this December. Hope January's the same!

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BS Man about Palms

(Shon @ Dec. 14 2007,17:41)

QUOTE
I did a little experiment last night and put two gauges about fifteen feet from each other.I got two different readings by three degrees. Same elevation and everything.When you are in the 30's 3degrees makes a big difference. Is there a chance there is something that could cause a false low?

Shon- you have to switch them back and forth and let them sit 15-30 min (less if you use big gloves to not heat them via "you") and see if they both read the same temp more or less in the same area.  Then you'll see if you have one reading high or if its "colder" in a certain spot.

I completely forgot last year that I have a high dollar thermocouple type thermometer that is very accurate.  I checked all mine about a month ago, sadly they are all within a half degree of correct. (thats close for you celsius folks)

Sad, because I was hoping they were reading low..... :(

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happ

(Shon @ Dec. 14 2007,20:41)

QUOTE
I did a little experiment last night and put two gauges about fifteen feet from each other.I got two different readings by three degrees. Same elevation and everything.When you are in the 30's 3degrees makes a big difference. Is there a chance there is something that could cause a false low?

Shon

Perhaps you could place the gauges next to each other/compare readings.  Any spread of temps is expected in garden micro climates.

I'm tired of this cold spell.  Nights are uncomfortable & our palms must be hating it  :o  

Your right Jim  :D the forecast is for continued cold into the holidays but not below freezing.  The lower atmosphere will moisten-up next week with onshore clouds. Models predict 50% chance of rain.

LA: 66F/18.8c - 44F/6.6c

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tropicalb

had a chance to check the lo temp in the new greenhouse in vista today...a nice toasty 44F....pretty nice considering the cars in the front of the house were WHITE with frost this morning!

I'll post some pics soon.....i still have a TON of work left to do.

BS came by and had a looksee today and gave me the MAP (man about palms) greenhouse seal of approval!

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osideterry

31.5F. My sensor in an unprotected spot, away from the house.

It was 36F at midnight, so I brought all 1-5g pots into the garage (52F)

I pulled 8-15g pots up close to the house, and under my second story deck (35F)

Light frost on one lawn but not two others. Water condensation on cars (?)

Hope this really is the bottom, and it starts getting warmer.

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BS Man about Palms

I happened to get up at just after 5 and saw it was at 38F I was happy. An hour later it was 37 :(  It still is now at 7am. :(

Terry-

 Nothing is indicating much change for a ways out. Except some rain on Weds and the clouds should make it a little warmer over night. probably tues and weds nights.

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happ

Wind picked up overnight so minimums were warmer in LA : 47F/8.3c.  Predicting minimum temps is difficult esp during winter for NWS [with pronounced micro-climates from basin to foothills.  But air circulation is critical to ward off frost.  

There is a near-consistent diurnal wind in Los Angeles due to height & east/west position of mountains.  Off shore flow occurs even during faint santa ana conditions. Unlike the peninsular mts east of San Diego, LA is open to the east by nearly 100 miles [all the valleys run parallel from Ventura/Santa Clarita/Simi/San Fernando/San Gabriel/Santa Ana/San Bernardino.  

When night temps are modified then the following day is also likely to be slightly warmer than windless lowlands [w/ exceptions ie. Woodland Hills.  There are areas in So Cal with average maximums at or above 70F/21c all winter  :P

It's been 9 days straight below 70F  :(

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elHoagie

My low last night was 8C (46F) at 3AM.  When I woke up at 6AM it was up to 10C (50F).

I had the same low the previous night, but it was really cold in the lowlands below me yesterday morning.  Thick frost on most lawns/windsheilds/roofs....

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MattyB

Interesting temp spreads.  I had almost exactly the same reading as Jack did last night.  My low was 45.9F, I don't know what time that occured at though.  But when I woke up at 5 or 6 to take a pee, it read 50F.  I thought it was a warmer night for everyone.  Our weather is fascinating.  Good work ya'll with the data.

One thing my wife and I have been noticing this week is that when we leave a restaurant, store or whatever we're doing for the evening we can see our breath, the air is cold and still and very nippy.  But when we get home there's always a breeze, you can't see your breath and it's noticably warmer.

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happ

Glad you started this thread, Matty  :D especially info on San Diego county [a good friend in Tierra Santa records temps/rainfall & have purchased a rain gauge for my nephew in Rancho Peñasquitos [near Black Mt  1500' In the mesa's above canyons frost is quite rare.

Haven't quite figured out why minimums in Newport Beach are warmer by 10F degrees compared to Oceanside [both are located on coastal plains  ???

Actually broke 70F/21.1c in parts of LA & San Diego [ie. San Gabriel/Chatsworth/Santa Ana/El Cajon/Santee] but cool weather will continue for another week  :o  night temps will rise/day temps will drop

Only good part of the forecast is rainfall though it is unclear what amounts will be.

LA: 71F/21.6c

     47F/8.3c

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BS Man about Palms

(happ @ Dec. 15 2007,21:06)

QUOTE
Haven't quite figured out why minimums in Newport Beach are warmer by 10F degrees compared to Oceanside [both are located on coastal plains  ???

Happ-

  I've been curious about that for awhile. The only thing I can figure is enormous Camp Pendleton to the North that has minimal population and therefore no "heat island effect" to help warm things up. ???

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osideterry

I think my sensor placement for yesterday wasn't ideal. It was in area with no structures to the southwest for half a block. I've moved it to a sheltered area on the north side of my house, in shade but no canopy.

Weather.com had yesterday's low as 32F. weatherunderground had 34F. They both read from the airport.

Once the clouds leave and the wind stops it can get real cold here compared to surrounding places.

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happ

(BS, Man about Palms @ Dec. 16 2007,03:19)

QUOTE

(happ @ Dec. 15 2007,21:06)

QUOTE
Haven't quite figured out why minimums in Newport Beach are warmer by 10F degrees compared to Oceanside [both are located on coastal plains  ???

Happ-

  I've been curious about that for awhile. The only thing I can figure is enormous Camp Pendleton to the North that has minimal population and therefore no "heat island effect" to help warm things up. ???

Bill

There are some differences in topography that could contribute.  The coastal plain of Orange county is vast compared to San Diego county’s laguna/mesa/foothill/valley/mountain.  Fullerton [elevation 151'/46m] is over 20miles/32.18km of flat land away from Newport [el. 5'/1.5m]. Oceanside [el. 47'/14.3m] is less than 10miles/16km from Vista [e. 540'/164m].  Cold air descends along the San Luis Rey river into Oceanside and low mountains encircle from the north & east.  The relatively low San Joaquin hills are south of Newport Beach/Costa Mesa.

The east/west Santa Ana mts allow off shore wind/influence for Newport.  The north/south peninsular mts limit these warming winds.

Ocean water temps are unremarkable [san Clemente & San Diego bay generally warmest in California] yet have much warmer minimums than in Oceanside  ???

Lo: 49F/9.4c

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