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Beccariophoenix alfredii

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Tyrone

There seems to be confusion about this species requirements for sunlight vs shade (the same for Parajubaea). If you look closely at the habitat photo's in the link posted by Zeeth, it looks to me like a remnant group of palms in a degraded environment. A couple of the photo's show the palms growing in a patch of riparian forest which I would think is more representative of the original ecosystem there. It seems likely to me that the palms germinate under canopy and grow happily in the shade of the forest until they emerge as adults.

Cheers,

Jonathan

The area they grow in habitat is a very remote area with almost no human activity. It's unlikely to be degraded, so I think it's natural. All the specimens live near the creeks and small rivers but not down near the main river, they seem to want to live up in the valleys, maybe away from torrential floods down lower. By the looks of it they create their own microclimate all growing together near the valley floor. Small seedlings will live in the shade of their adult parents for a long while, but they would get direct sunlight at certain times of the day and year.

My seedlings seem perfectly OK with full blazing Perth summer sun, well into the 40's C, but also don't mind the shelter of a bit of bright shade under laserlite plastic. Of all the Beccariophoenix, alfredii almost grows like a native plant, and is flawless despite anything the weather throws at them, whereas the other two are a bit harder to grow in my climate.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Darkman

My plant has no overhead protection this year and has shown heavy frost damage. The palm is all bronze from a 23˙F night. I'll be digging this one up come spring, it's not going to grow here.

post-1473-014420500 1294495447_thumb.jpg post-1473-049618000 1294495460_thumb.jpg

Paul,

I have some high solid canopy areas (Very Large Live Oaks) that do not ever get frost. Do you think they would be ok here? If you do I'd be interested in what you dig up!

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Gallop

Roger That Darkman as long as it won't see any frost you'll be fine. Let me know if you are interested I was planing on selling it.

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Gallop

Darkman PM me know if you are interested .

Edited by Gallop

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TropicalDude

Tropical Dude, mine experienced frost @ 34 deg F and showed heavy bronzing . Like I mentioned earlier ,last yr it saw a week straight of temps below freezing low was 21 deg F temps never got above 40 deg F that week, but again it had heavy canopy saw no frost & showed zero damage, I had high hopes for it, but this year w/ no canopy has done it in.

Ironic that it survived 21 F with no damage even if under canopy, to then take such a beating from frost at only 34.

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Gallop

It's my experience that several different palms I'm growing can take low temps but absolutely no frost. ie L maria last yr had canopy no damage this yr no canopy & frost toasted it....

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Jonathan

The area they grow in habitat is a very remote area with almost no human activity. It's unlikely to be degraded, so I think it's natural. All the specimens live near the creeks and small rivers but not down near the main river, they seem to want to live up in the valleys, maybe away from torrential floods down lower. By the looks of it they create their own microclimate all growing together near the valley floor. Small seedlings will live in the shade of their adult parents for a long while, but they would get direct sunlight at certain times of the day and year.

My seedlings seem perfectly OK with full blazing Perth summer sun, well into the 40's C, but also don't mind the shelter of a bit of bright shade under laserlite plastic. Of all the Beccariophoenix, alfredii almost grows like a native plant, and is flawless despite anything the weather throws at them, whereas the other two are a bit harder to grow in my climate.

Best regards

Tyrone

You cant stop goats and pigs from climbing hills...or from eating whatever they find growing there!

I dont doubt that they can survive full sun, half of mine are in full sun, but whether they prefer it - too early for me to tell yet.

Cheers,

Jonathan

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Darkman

Tropical Dude, mine experienced frost @ 34 deg F and showed heavy bronzing . Like I mentioned earlier ,last yr it saw a week straight of temps below freezing low was 21 deg F temps never got above 40 deg F that week, but again it had heavy canopy saw no frost & showed zero damage, I had high hopes for it, but this year w/ no canopy has done it in.

Ironic that it survived 21 F with no damage even if under canopy, to then take such a beating from frost at only 34.

The saga will continue. Paul and I have struck a deal and the B. alfredii will make the move across town to my live oak sheltered site. I can provide canopy for it even if/when it gets 30' tall. I may expierience temps that are about 2 degress colder than wher Paul lives. We'll have to wait till next winter to see how well it recovers this summer and what temps it will see then. Frost will not be part of the equation.

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Yort

Very interesting topic!

The winters here in the south of the Netherlands are very long and cold but my beccariophoenix alfredii is doing very well! It survived 30cm snow and a minimum of -15 degrees C. The palm is heated with christmas lights. It was planted in Arpil 2010.

A few jong Washingtonia Robusta's got the same protection but died..

This pictures were taken 2 weeks ago.

post-5471-068602600 1296220684_thumb.jpg

post-5471-067691600 1296220706_thumb.jpg

post-5471-090682000 1296220732_thumb.jpg

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buccaneers37

Very interesting topic!

The winters here in the south of the Netherlands are very long and cold but my beccariophoenix alfredii is doing very well! It survived 30cm snow and a minimum of -15 degrees C. The palm is heated with christmas lights. It was planted in Arpil 2010.

A few jong Washingtonia Robusta's got the same protection but died..

This pictures were taken 2 weeks ago.

post-5471-068602600 1296220684_thumb.jpg

post-5471-067691600 1296220706_thumb.jpg

post-5471-090682000 1296220732_thumb.jpg

Impressive!! But me thinks in 10years your gonna need a bigger box.

:floor:

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gilles06

Yort you're really Mad?! :blink:

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Tyrone

The area they grow in habitat is a very remote area with almost no human activity. It's unlikely to be degraded, so I think it's natural. All the specimens live near the creeks and small rivers but not down near the main river, they seem to want to live up in the valleys, maybe away from torrential floods down lower. By the looks of it they create their own microclimate all growing together near the valley floor. Small seedlings will live in the shade of their adult parents for a long while, but they would get direct sunlight at certain times of the day and year.

My seedlings seem perfectly OK with full blazing Perth summer sun, well into the 40's C, but also don't mind the shelter of a bit of bright shade under laserlite plastic. Of all the Beccariophoenix, alfredii almost grows like a native plant, and is flawless despite anything the weather throws at them, whereas the other two are a bit harder to grow in my climate.

Best regards

Tyrone

You cant stop goats and pigs from climbing hills...or from eating whatever they find growing there!

I dont doubt that they can survive full sun, half of mine are in full sun, but whether they prefer it - too early for me to tell yet.

Cheers,

Jonathan

True, there could be pigs and goats there.

My seedlings don't mind a bit of shade and to be fair they don't get sun up to sun down full sun. None of my plants get that. But if I give B alfredii full equatorial tropical conditions they die quickly, whereas B madagascariensis and B sp windows don't mind at all. I lost a lot of seedlings from my first batch of B alfredii giving them 32C and 85% RH in my tunnel house. Bring them out and they're fine. That kind of tells me they want drier air and more sun than the other two. So an open warm position suits them very well.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Jonathan

Tyrone,

I've put a couple of mine in the doorway to my shadehouse where they get morning sun and then 50% shade for the afternoon.

I think they quite like it - they finally look bright green and even seem to be growing a bit! Still very slow tho.

Obviously far less heat here than yours would get, although the ones in the greenhouse dont seem any faster.

As to frost...I might leave the two biggest ones out in the shadehouse where it gets to 0C every now & then and see how they pull up!

Cheers,

Jonathan

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Tyrone

Tyrone,

I've put a couple of mine in the doorway to my shadehouse where they get morning sun and then 50% shade for the afternoon.

I think they quite like it - they finally look bright green and even seem to be growing a bit! Still very slow tho.

Obviously far less heat here than yours would get, although the ones in the greenhouse dont seem any faster.

As to frost...I might leave the two biggest ones out in the shadehouse where it gets to 0C every now & then and see how they pull up!

Cheers,

Jonathan

Yeah, they'd love that. An ideal position would be one up against a north facing wall, so you maximise your heat, and block the wind. I just potted up mine last week (73 of them from two batches) and the youngest ones would be 18 months old. I put them all out in the sun where they'd get midday sun and they didn't bat an eyelid with the 42C we had the other day. Mind you it was humid with 20C dewpoints, but I don't expect any problems from them in the position I put them. For my climate they are extremely easy. I think in your climate all you need is just a bit more heat to speed them up, but don't be shy giving them full baking sun.

Best regards

Tyrone

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Sutter Bob

I've observed similar findings with Kings and Kentias here.

Canopy seems to make quite a difference in getting through the cold snaps.

It's my experience that several different palms I'm growing can take low temps but absolutely no frost. ie L maria last yr had canopy no damage this yr no canopy & frost toasted it....

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Xenon

Numerous days in the 20s with highs in the 30s and 40s, ultimate low of 21F. Under the porch, MAJOR discoloration so far....

:( Jonathan

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Sutter Bob

Here are a couple of photos.

I have a handful of these under varying degrees of cover. Had a low of 27F in early January as well as a few light frosts in November and December.

One was completely unprotected and looks bad but alive. The others look ok.

post-0-055938100 1296885965_thumb.jpg

post-0-088018800 1296886004_thumb.jpg

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Palmə häl′ik

These alfredii's were in 3 gal containers during last winter, and did not show any distress at all. They were under light canopy, so I do not think they ever saw frost. Now they are in the ground located next the canopy of some taller Livistona decora's. They command a front row position!

post-112-075001900 1295099142_thumb.jpg

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muahahahahh. :lol:

What's up Mike.

Geez. Your sugar-coatin' it! :)

I didn't know you got frost in your neck o da woods anyways...

Your DO look the bizness; as always. :drool:

~Ray.

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Here are a couple of photos.

I have a handful of these under varying degrees of cover. Had a low of 27F in early January as well as a few light frosts in November and December.

One was completely unprotected and looks bad but alive. The others look ok.

I have 3 about the same size... out in the open and unprotected.

Two have about half the damage yours has. The one I have in my front yard has no damage at all. . We were about 27f- 28f for a low this winter.

Once they get larger, they will no doubt get more cold resistant.

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Palmzilla

Mine got frost damage but will grow out of it

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sonoranfans

These alfredii's were in 3 gal containers during last winter, and did not show any distress at all. They were under light canopy, so I do not think they ever saw frost. Now they are in the ground located next the canopy of some taller Livistona decora's. They command a front row position!

post-112-075001900 1295099142_thumb.jpg

post-112-096243000 1295099146_thumb.jpg

post-112-088289700 1295099150_thumb.jpg

Mikes yard is kinda protected by some huge live oaks and royals, its a gorgeous place. If I had to guess, I would say that it may never see frost over most of the yard. the SW st pete area is the warmest area near tampa/sarasota, probably warmer than fort myers to the south winter lows. What I have learned from alfredii is that they take sub freezing temps, but not frost. I have cut mine back after losing ~80% of the foilage(they saw 28.5F with a good frost) and it still had damage to emerging fronds. I have applied peroxide and Daconil repeatedly from the beginning(every 1-2 weeks). I will plant my remaining two under canopy to avoid the next frost devastation. I am not sorried about cold for them, but they are not frost resistant.

muahahahahh. :lol:

What's up Mike.

Geez. Your sugar-coatin' it! :)

I didn't know you got frost in your neck o da woods anyways...

Your DO look the bizness; as always. :drool:

~Ray.

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Palmə häl′ik

'ello TomBlank, from Gilbert, AZ..

I know. I'm just playin'...

I've got a weird sense of humor... ...if that's whatchu call it. :blink:

Mike's place is great... I've been there once or twice... :hmm:

Are ya another transplant to the SunShineState :greenthumb:

Welcome to FL then... :wub:

:asleep:

Have you seen the native Royals over on 41 and 275 interchange over by the SkyWay yet...

Right on the TerraCeia River...

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sonoranfans

'ello TomBlank, from Gilbert, AZ..

I know. I'm just playin'...

I've got a weird sense of humor... ...if that's whatchu call it. :blink:

Mike's place is great... I've been there once or twice... :hmm:

Are ya another transplant to the SunShineState :greenthumb:

Welcome to FL then... :wub:

:asleep:

Have you seen the native Royals over on 41 and 275 interchange over by the SkyWay yet...

Right on the TerraCeia River...

I know Ray, hello there! I've been to mikes a couple times too. When I saw his bottles survived winter 2010, I knew his yard didnt get very cold. Im not sure mike even thinks about frost, and that "light" live oak canopy may be stretching it a "wee bit" to call it "light", maybe "medium". His yard is fabulous, and its in the warmest area within a few hundred miles. I think his area of st pete was about 5-7 degrees F warmer than mine("coach house" weather station palmetto) this winter, and I dont have canopy yet, he of course does.

On the alfredii, its clear to me that they will be badly burned by a hard frost, but they may take low temps to the mid 20's without it. Mine is still struggling as I douse it with Daconil on a weekly basis. New emerging fronds are still looking unhappy. My experience says they take a frost a little better than a small royal, but not as well as a small bizzie. :D

Yes I am a transplant from arizona, no frosts there :lol: , but lower temps that rise quickly with the sun. Its a whole different climate to grow palms in and though I miss my yard there, there are opportunities to grow new species here, and fabulous small business nurseries. I am enjoying planting out and learning that many palms dont like frost :blink:

And yes Ray I drive by those old royals and over the skyway every day, its the most scenic drive to work I've ever had!

Edited by sonoranfans

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Xenon

Days(a week?) of consecutive freezes in the low/mid 20s, and two(?) days with highs in the 20s. Ultimate low around 21F...

Spear is still firm....

:sick:

post-4112-099018200 1297976851_thumb.jpg

post-4112-094896000 1297976680_thumb.jpg

:( Jonathan

Edited by Xenon

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Xenon

Days(a week?) of consecutive freezes in the low/mid 20s, and two(?) days with highs in the 20s. Ultimate low around 21F...

Spear is still firm....

:sick:

post-4112-099018200 1297976851_thumb.jpg

post-4112-094896000 1297976680_thumb.jpg

:( Jonathan

Update

Out of the 3 tested, one is pushing a green spear! :yay:

We actually had 13 days straight with lows in the 20s and 30s, with 3 days of highs at 32F, ultimate low was actually 19F. They were under a patio so no frost.

:) Jonathan

Edited by Xenon

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Palmy

An incredible looking palm for its cold hardness but in the Netherlands? Really? That's almost as crazy as Bobby in NY's pictures of protecting palms. One of hte more hardy coconut looking palms. I wonder which one is hardier, a parajubaea or a Beccariophoenix high plateau?

Good luck Xenon and Yort!

512px-Beccariophoenix_alfredii_21.JPG

Edited by Palmy

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sonoranfans

Here is mine, pushing out new growth. My bismarckias was more frost tolerant, this is more like my syagrus romanzoffiana x schitzophillia. I also had a windowpane palm right next to it at the same size, dead as a doornail.

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freakypalmguy

An incredible looking palm for its cold hardness but in the Netherlands? Really? That's almost as crazy as Bobby in NY's pictures of protecting palms. One of hte more hardy coconut looking palms. I wonder which one is hardier, a parajubaea or a Beccariophoenix high plateau?

Good luck Xenon and Yort!

512px-Beccariophoenix_alfredii_21.JPG

Parajubea, hands down. All of my Parajubea were untouched by this years frost and freezing temps (25F low) but all of my Beccariophoenix were completely brown.

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Rafael

Update: mine in the open yard was killed, but the other one, under canopy, is with minor leaf damage and starting to grow.

Meanwhile, i have choosed another spot, even better than this one, to put a new one in the ground. Let´s see. Photos later.

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iwan

At the juvenile stage, definitely Parajubaea. Several B. alfredii under frost cloth have spotting similar to unprotected P. tortor for the same size plants in ground (1-2g size). Hopefully they will harden up, but so far this species is a wimp and not living up to the hype. Temps were in the 25-27F range and the alfredii probably never went below 28-30F under the frost cloth.

An incredible looking palm for its cold hardness but in the Netherlands? Really? That's almost as crazy as Bobby in NY's pictures of protecting palms. One of hte more hardy coconut looking palms. I wonder which one is hardier, a parajubaea or a Beccariophoenix high plateau?

Good luck Xenon and Yort!

Parajubea, hands down. All of my Parajubea were untouched by this years frost and freezing temps (25F low) but all of my Beccariophoenix were completely brown.

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Palmə häl′ik

These B. alfredii's aren't ready for full exposure just yet... I took a hit losing around seven fully exposed to the elements this past winter, whilst the larger population of them under oak canopy only having minor spott

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Palmə häl′ik

...spotting

They look fine now, but the frost exposed ones DID NOT make it.

They fooled me for awhile looking like a new spear would show, but inevitable didn't. :angry:

I think once they get some size to 'em they'll be frost tolerant.

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Darkman

...spotting

They look fine now, but the frost exposed ones DID NOT make it.

They fooled me for awhile looking like a new spear would show, but inevitable didn't. :angry:

I think once they get some size to 'em they'll be frost tolerant.

That worries me. The one I acquired was exposed to hard frost and like you I have been waiting for the new spear and not seeing it. I'll keep looking but I guess I should prepare my self!

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Xenon

Days(a week?) of consecutive freezes in the low/mid 20s, and two(?) days with highs in the 20s. Ultimate low around 21F...

Spear is still firm....

:sick:

post-4112-099018200 1297976851_thumb.jpg

post-4112-094896000 1297976680_thumb.jpg

:( Jonathan

Update

Out of the 3 tested, one is pushing a green spear! :yay:

We actually had 13 days straight with lows in the 20s and 30s, with 3 days of highs at 32F, ultimate low was actually 19F. They were under a patio so no frost.

:) Jonathan

Mine is now dead.

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Rafael

Any updates? Mine is thriving...

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Darkman

Mine is still looking real rough but Gallop said to give it more time so I will just stand by a wait for now. I got a L. maria and two reclinatas at the same time and they are recovering fine and pushing hard. I would really hate to loose the alfredi as it is what started the deal.

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Rafael

I have one alfredii facing west/sea winds/also north influence. This one exploded in growth until late autumn. Now, with 3 frost events, is showing 50% leaf damage, maybe more. I dont know if it will handle it.

I have another one, facing east (30 mts appart, with the house between), and receiving south influence, wich has grown much less than the other. But, surprinsingly, didnt get any frost damage. Off course i dont know how will it behave the next weeks...

But could it be a micro climate matter?

This is the first one, showing lots of frost damage (despite being covered)

post-3292-065312000 1295191741_thumb.jpg

The second one, with the same covering, but completely different

post-3292-083308200 1295191602_thumb.jpg

As i said above, i lost the first one.

This is how the second one looks now. :)

post-3292-008814100 1309334807_thumb.jpg

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sonoranfans

Here is mine, pushing out new growth. My bismarckias were more frost tolerant, this is more like my syagrus romanzoffiana x schitzophillia. I also had a windowpane palm right next to it at the same size, dead as a doornail.

Well here is an update with a happy return. My frost burned alfredii (from above) pushed out some new fronds and here is how it looks now in july. I'm still encouraged that it may get even more frost hardy as it ages, or my yard will grow in and be less susceptible to frost events. This one was in a relative cold spot with no overhead at all within 25'. Today it has a Hopper xjubyagrus about 15 feet away and a live oak within 18' in another direction, so I expect it will get warmer in that spot in the future.

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Alberto

Two nights of freezing temperatures. Heavy frost. First one -3°C (26.6 F) and second 1.5°C.

The ones growing with some canopy are fine. The 4 other plants (Fully pinate) at a lower part of my property (where at ground level it probably was near -5°C) totally defoliated and had speerpull.

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IdolLurker

Two nights of freezing temperatures. Heavy frost. First one -3°C (26.6 F) and second 1.5°C.

The ones growing with some canopy are fine. The 4 other plants (Fully pinate) at a lower part of my property (where at ground level it probably was near -5°C) totally defoliated and had speerpull.

Alberto,

Thank you so much for this report. I have wanted to grow some of these for the past few years but have been scared off by the frost damage. It seems like it can take the cold but not frost - we get many of them here. Do you have any seeds yet from mature plants that have made it through?

Does anyone else anywhere have any seeds from mature B alfredii that made it through some cold weather? I would appreciate getting some "survivor" seeds to try here in North Florida's winters. I'd be glad to buy or trade for them.

Debra

Backyard Paradise

Edited by IdolLurker

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