why use humic acids to treat soils?

[sonoranfans]

Here is an article that I found on humic acids/humates and soil treatment.  It is kind of detailed, but describes the many functions of humic acid/humates and why they are more important than fertilizer.  Humic acid/ humates should not be confused with compost as they are the final products of compost typically represented in very low amounts in composed material.  In other words, compost does not necessarily satisfy the humic acid/humates soil function.  Humic acids/humates are especially low in clay soils, that are otherwise often mineral rich.  Dr. Petitt can say it much better than I, here is the link:

http://www.humate.info/

[Tad]

we have it added to some of the bulk fert we sling thru the fields, I can advise this much, IT WORKS GREAT!!! but

be careful with phoenix palms tho, they seem not too fond of it.

I have used the liquid in my injection system and have had mixed results, prefer the dry application much better!!

[sonoranfans]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 03 2007,21:23)

QUOTE

we have it added to some of the bulk fert we sling thru the fields, I can advise this much, IT WORKS GREAT!!! but

be careful with phoenix palms tho, they seem not too fond of it.

I have used the liquid in my injection system and have had mixed results, prefer the dry application much better!!

I add the liquid humic acid/kelp solution with a watering pail, about 1 oz per 2 gallon pail.  I add it directly to the root zone to all my palms once a month -just prior to a drip irrigation deep watering event- when temps are above 70F.  I addi t to the root zones of all my trees/palms, including my phoenix roebelinii.  I also add it to all new plantings once a week for 2 or 3 weeks.  In addition, I  add it to my seedlings in pots once a month.  I have had no negative effects everything seems to be growing very well.  Because it is not the only treatment I use, its hard to estimate an effect.  I can just say that my palms are much more lush than my neighbors of the same species.  From the article it states that the optimum level of humates/humic acids is 1-2 % in soil for best growth.  I am willing to bet that no one with clay soil has this level of humates, and even very few with loamy soil have it.  Perhaps some swamps with alot of decaying material have that level, like the bayou.  This stuff stinks, smells of decay, like old rotted leaves in standing water.  As a chemist, my instincts tell me that the liquid forms will have more diverse humate molecular species, perhaps a higher amount of the small molecules, like fulvic acids, though I could be wrong.  It is typically easier to stabilize reactive small molecule acids in a liquid suspension.

[sonoranfans]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 03 2007,21:23)

QUOTE

we have it added to some of the bulk fert we sling thru the fields, I can advise this much, IT WORKS GREAT!!! but

be careful with phoenix palms tho, they seem not too fond of it.

I have used the liquid in my injection system and have had mixed results, prefer the dry application much better!!

I was thinking about your injection application and I wouldnt recomment it for the liquid in a drip system.  The liquid has alot of sediment material that might not be distributed equally to your drippers, it could even get hung up in the irrigation tubing, but more likely the plants closest will get more and those farthest away from the injection point might get alot less of the suspended particulates.

[osideterry]

Thanks for the reminder. Just bought a big bag of "John and Bob's" on the way home. Going to do my second treatment of the year this weekend. I do it in the Spring and Fall.

[Tad]

(sonoranfans @ Oct. 04 2007,17:26)

QUOTE

I was thinking about your injection application and I wouldnt recomment it for the liquid in a drip system.  The liquid has alot of sediment material that might not be distributed equally to your drippers, it could even get hung up in the irrigation tubing, but more likely the plants closest will get more and those farthest away from the injection point might get alot less of the suspended particulates.

when we use it in the ferigation sysytem it's only a minute amount say 1/4 gallon to 100 gallons of water and fertillizer mix which is then put into the line at a 1 to 100 ratio....and once tank mixed it stays in suspension quite well,  we dont use drip emittters with any of the river water applications, the misters in the fog house are hooked seperate to city water, no injector.

[sonoranfans]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 04 2007,23:44)

QUOTE

(sonoranfans @ Oct. 04 2007,17:26)

QUOTE

I was thinking about your injection application and I wouldnt recomment it for the liquid in a drip system.  The liquid has alot of sediment material that might not be distributed equally to your drippers, it could even get hung up in the irrigation tubing, but more likely the plants closest will get more and those farthest away from the injection point might get alot less of the suspended particulates.

when we use it in the ferigation sysytem it's only a minute amount say 1/4 gallon to 100 gallons of water and fertillizer mix which is then put into the line at a 1 to 100 ratio....and once tank mixed it stays in suspension quite well,  we dont use drip emittters with any of the river water applications, the misters in the fog house are hooked seperate to city water, no injector.

Yeah, most likely more is better, minute amounts might not do much.  Its also cheaper as a powder, especially the shipping.  I use the liquid diluted as above, with sodium laurel sulfate (surfactant) to ensure deep penetration of my clay soils right around the palm root zone, then I water after with drip irrigation(40 gallons in 5 hours, very slowly).  With high drainage soils, the solid would probably work just as well without needing  to mix it in to the soil too much.  If I used the solid, I'd have to mix it in good so it wouldnt wash away from the root zone area given my clay soil.  I am just too lazy to dig the ground up all the time.

[Tad]

(sonoranfans @ Oct. 05 2007,12:25)

QUOTE

Yeah, most likely more is better, minute amounts might not do much.  Its also cheaper as a powder, especially the shipping.  I use the liquid diluted as above, with sodium laurel sulfate (surfactant) to ensure deep penetration of my clay soils right around the palm root zone, then I water after with drip irrigation(40 gallons in 5 hours, very slowly).  With high drainage soils, the solid would probably work just as well without needing  to mix it in to the soil too much.  If I used the solid, I'd have to mix it in good so it wouldnt wash away from the root zone area given my clay soil.  I am just too lazy to dig the ground up all the time.

I dont think you get it sonorafans, these palms are on a constant liquid feed, so a whole bunch at once hitting a soiless potting mix is not the same idea as your trying to work up clay soil, and the dry that we use in the field fertilizer is incorporated into the soil by mechanical tillage  roughly 6 times a year. so its over 1000 pounds of fert to the acre, just not all at once...also minor variance depending on variety and density(trees per acre)

as far as the shipping we get the liquid in a 55 gallon drum from a local manufacturer, he is one of the largest watermelon growers nation wide...his agronomist is the one who set our application rates so I doubt I will be adjusting to "more"

[sonoranfans]

(palmotrafficante @ Oct. 05 2007,12:52)

QUOTE

(sonoranfans @ Oct. 05 2007,12:25)

QUOTE

Yeah, most likely more is better, minute amounts might not do much.  Its also cheaper as a powder, especially the shipping.  I use the liquid diluted as above, with sodium laurel sulfate (surfactant) to ensure deep penetration of my clay soils right around the palm root zone, then I water after with drip irrigation(40 gallons in 5 hours, very slowly).  With high drainage soils, the solid would probably work just as well without needing  to mix it in to the soil too much.  If I used the solid, I'd have to mix it in good so it wouldnt wash away from the root zone area given my clay soil.  I am just too lazy to dig the ground up all the time.

I dont think you get it sonorafans, these palms are on a constant liquid feed, so a whole bunch at once hitting a soiless potting mix is not the same idea as your trying to work up clay soil, and the dry that we use in the field fertilizer is incorporated into the soil by mechanical tillage  roughly 6 times a year. so its over 1000 pounds of fert to the acre, just not all at once...also minor variance depending on variety and density(trees per acre)

as far as the shipping we get the liquid in a 55 gallon drum from a local manufacturer, he is one of the largest watermelon growers nation wide...his agronomist is the one who set our application rates so I doubt I will be adjusting to "more"

OK youre on constant feed, obviously high drainage, alot of rain down there as well, alot of losses.  It appears to be a special situation as is mine.  Perhaps you cannot know the humic content without measuring it.  For me its easier if I get it into the ground, it doesnt wash away period, just accumulates until it decomposes.

My mentioning of clay was meant to contrast your south texas farm and greenhouse with my palms in ground in clay soil.   I do what I do because I dont want to till the soil and my palms are in clay based soil where a topical application is not recommended by horticulturalists here.  Here we need to fertilize with spikes, drive them into the ground to assure the fertilizer doesnt run off.  In my case, the solid is more work, less effect as unless I spend alot of time digging around root zones it will wash off.  Its also true that some of my palms, like Bismarckia can be damaged by digging around root zones to till in solids.  Its up to readers to determine whether your treatments or mine are more appropriate for their palms, based on their conditions.  For some non commercial palm growers tilling their root zones may be much more work or a bad idea.