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Dypsis decipiens woes


Patrick

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here's  a relatively simple one, I imagine, I just don't have the experience to really know just what's going on.

I've got a small Dypsis decipiens that's almost finished pushing out a new leaf. The last few leaflets of this new leaf, almost completely emerged, are very limp. I had thought that the leaves on this palm were to be rather stiff. The whole leaf itself is supported more or less by the leaf directly underneath it, so the entire leaf is not really supporting itself- and it's not a big leaf. Maybe a foot long overall. As a whole it's not incredibally limp, but it seems to be out of the ordinary for what I've experienced. The emerging leaf, near the center of the plant is a pale green, not that solid palm leaf green we all know so well. So, that's what I've got, hopefully one of you can give some insight to me. This has been one of the more difficult buggers for me to grow :angry: . I'm monitoring the water constantly as I do realize that this palm does not like heavy amounts of water- but maybe I am still giving it a bit too much? It's not too deep, I'm careful to make sure the "saxophone" is exposed (sorry, I don't have a better word for it). It's planted in a sandy mix with lots of organic matter, which isn't exactly it's natural habitat, but I figured it would be for the better. It's in part sun. Full sun here burns the leaves on this juvenile palm. It did get burnt in this last heat wave so perhaps the palm is reeling a bit from that?So is it WATER, a DEFICIENCY, or STUPIDITY on my part????  :o

I've also noticed that this little guy seems to grow in spurts, which doesn't seem right to me either. Again, this may be a hasty assumption due to my inexperience (only 3 years in)

I've listed a few of my thoughts and observations so hopefully you all can steer me in the right direction. Thankyou oh so much!

Pat

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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How about a photo?

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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sorry, not able, no digi. camera. Maybe I can describe it to you. It's really green........

Sorry, I can describe something specifically if you wish, I was actually just looking at it and thought I might give it some copper fungicide or something like it. Some kings in pots nearby just bought it and they exhibited the same droopy new leaf syndrome..... ???

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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What about the new emerging spike? Is it nice and firm? If so, that's a good sign. If it's soft or mushy, not good.... And what about drainage? If drainage is good, I don't think a lot of water is a problem. I have quite a few Dypsis decipiens, and we get 150 inches of rain a year, and they're all thriving!

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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BGL,

Thanks for your help, first of all.

At the moment there is no emerging spike because the new leaf I have (the one that's all limp) just opened up.  The leaf stem is a bit softer than I'd expect out of a new leaf. At the base of the stem, nearest to the crown the stem is whitish to yellowish at best. I gave it a gentle tug& nothing pulled out. I don't want to go prying around things too much.... I'm not really sure what kind of harm that can do If you go pushing and prodding on a sick palm.  I can't really see any spike behind the new leaf. The leaf that's newest is just at that point where the final leaflet has been pushed out enough to open up. I hope that makes sense.

But since you've asked me that it's got me thinking,  because usually I'm used to seeing the beginnings of a new spear right behind the newest open leaf. SHOOT!  :(  

I did just look through my sept. 2005  IPS Journal, it's got that key to disorders & diseases on pg 145. If you still have that and want to look on pg 147, the symptoms I have are affecting the newest leaves only. The older ones are all healthy. It could possible be a boron deficiency, but I've never dealt with this so I can't really pinpoint this as the cause- but the new leaf is "hanging down but otherwise healthy", uh, for the most part. It's all newer topsoil with lots of organic matter so I'm not really sure about how to figure if I'm lacking boron. The spear leaf hasn't pulled out so I can't get any conclusions from this- but I did just recently have the spear of another D. decipiens in a pot pull out about a month ago- I figured it had something to do with lack of water and the extreme heat wave we just had. THAT Dypsis is growing again, though. Maybe the two are related somehow?

Like I said before, I did just have a king palm right near the dypsis die because of some sort of bud rot- the leaf spear pulled right out & that was it for that one!

Now, I cant really say that any new leaves are emerging. I have been checking the past week or so and haven't really noticed much growth in that time. Only this limpy syndrome that we're talking about now. The guide says in this case that the symptom is either Phytopthora, thielaviopsis, or some other bacterial bud damage. This seems to be close to what I am experiencing.

The next thing is to figure out which product o treat the palm with. Guessing on the Phytophthora, I applied a treatment of Cooke cop-r-spray (if you've ever heard of it). It's some type of copper-ammonium complex that's supposed to work for the phytophthora bud rot, but I can't say I know just how a fungicide like this works.

Do you know of something that works better?

I've read the Thelaviopsis bud rot is common to mostly Florida so I'm not worrying about this as much, but does anyone have any experience with this??? I dont.

Bacterial bud rot....what's that mean & how acn I fix this? No clue here. Bacterial...reminds me of my doctor- he's such a quack he'd prerscribe amoxicillin for a broken arm! It's his fix-all. Maybe He's into gardening.... :;):

So, that's what I've got. Please, let me know what you think and I thank you for your response.

Patrick

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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In most cases, the lack of new growth or any growth. is directly related to to the root system. The case of maybe severe cold weather or an injury to the palm, would then rule this out. Also a bud rot disease could be in the beginning stages. A drench would then be helpful.

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Patrick,

You asked me what I think, and unfortunately I think you may need more help than I can provide you from 5000 miles away! But also, more importantly, because I'm not familiar with the specific problem you're describing. Hopefully, someone on the Forum, or someone locally, will recognize the symptons and give you some useful advise! Aloha!

Bo-Göran

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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But I do appreciate your help! I am envious of you and I'm sure many others are in that you live on a wonderful isle where you can take a cutting and stick it in the ground, wait 2 weeks and you've got a tree! Again, thanks for the help! I'll just have to baby it, dump chemicals on it (call me chemical patti) & see what happens. Aloha! :)

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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thanks for the thought, Jeff! I'll keep drenching.............palms........I tell ya

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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Jeff!

First, nice to meet you!

Sorry for your sorrows.

Second, D. decipiens get a bit tempermental, and just die for a variety of reasons.  Out of about 6-7 I've planted in the ground at my place, I've got two left growing in the ground.

Other people have reported that they sometimes get bud rot, and that copper fungicide can help.  In any case, you won't lose if you try that, even if it isn't the problem.  A little dab'll do ya, with plenty left over for the other tempermental palms in your life.

I note that you have clay.  So do I.  Clay is usually very fertile, but some palms hate it, and D. decipiens might be one of them, though the two that are doing well are, well, doing well.

Hmm.  Tell us a bit more about the rest of your garden?

I'll bet you've got soil that's so fertile, you can make it have babies . . . . :P

Just like the San Bernardino valley of the Santa Ana River.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Hey, palmsrgreat, I would say that you just might be on the mark with that photo--only my leaves arent as juveniloe- but does it really matter?? It's what's on the inside that counts! so you're feeling me on this? Great!

Dave, nice to meet you too. YOu're right in that I've got clay. Lots and lots of it. But I've tried to amend heavily. I've mixed in like 10 yards of a nice organic kind of sandy topsoil into everything and the put an additional 20 or so yards of more  topsil on top of that. So, I'm working on it. The worms love me. So, clay down below, topsoil up above. All for the sake of drainage- but that's another story/mess. I gues the fact that KB homes gave me a crater for a back yard turned out well after all! So, I'm hoping for a nice lovey-dovey yard where I can just throw some seed or whatever on the ground and have it sprout- wouldn't that be great? :laugh:

Around the yard I've got a bunch of pines

oh, oh wait,  palms!

Whoops!

Anyways Here it is:

Queens abundant,

A lovely pair of Livistonia decipiens

a chinensis growing at just slightly faster than snails pace,

1- butiagrus

A just planted Jubaeopsis caffra

Archantophoenix cunninghamia- though the wind beats the hell out of them

A butia capitata,

A. Wrightii

Brahea edulis

Chamaedorea plumosa, cataractum, too

Rhapidophylum hystrix, just planted as well

a couple of Trachy. martianus'

And the poor, poor, sorry ol' dypsis!

Of course there's a bunch more stuff in pots but this is true of any of our yards :) Some Caryota maxima himilayana seedlings i germinatd are plugging along- though I expect the heat and wind might do a number on them in due time as well. etc. etc. etc. the list goes on ad on....

Off to one side there's a lovely pond and the patio might just get poured this winter 'cause I'm a cheapskate and don't want to pay summertime ratesfor concrete!

Peraps you remember (perhaps not) a message about where to find a Manihot cathagenensis a while back? That was me & now that I' found one all the way out in alabama or arkansas or wherever, I'm going to give it a try as a patio tree. We shall see. I guess I'd better get a camera.... the yard's mostly dirt, though. And weeds. and more weeds.

Anyways, What's your yard like? I would imagine the socal sun treats you nicely down there. True?

Thanks for the info adn the help. Talk to you soon!

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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Patrick:

The So-Cal sun treats my yard, for the most part very well.

It treats me like KFC, and I'm ready for dipping sauce.  Redneck can indeed be a literal term, regardless of one's English usage or number of teeth . . . .

dave

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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I'm trying to figure-

the regular 'ol bbq sauce or do you wanna go straight to the ranch dressing?

I dig the coleslaw myself...

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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Hi Patrick!  I just realized you're in Oakley, next door to me, and I remember your older postings.  I too have a struggling Dypsis growing in amended clay.  I'm hesitant to plant more since they get so large if they make it, and I want room for so many other species, yet maybe that's what we must do to have one.

If you want me to swing by and take a pic of yours for posting, pm me.  Or maybe a neighbor has a digital camara and can snap one and email you the pic?

 San Francisco Bay Area, California

Zone 10a

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(Patrick @ Aug. 14 2006,23:38)

QUOTE
I'm trying to figure-

the regular 'ol bbq sauce or do you wanna go straight to the ranch dressing?

I dig the coleslaw myself...

Personally, I like that ni-hau chili sauce from China.  Sweet but also hot and sour.

Also makes great toothpaste . . . . :P

dave

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Dave--

is it so hot you Can you hear the plaque scream in pain when you're brushing? That must be nice.  

Hey, Kathy, swing by the house if you like- were on douglas in oakley. Go down hwy 4, brentwood blvd, the intercontinental trans-delta hwy- whatever theyre calling it this week, and douglas road will be on your right about a mile past Lone tree. As they say...look for the palms. I think I might be able to scare a camera up for a few minutes, though

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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