"Serious" question about seeds

[metalfan]

Okay, you all know I am a novice at palms and have said before that I have bad luck with seeds.

At the risk that many of you who are very "serious" about palm growing will just blow this off as a frivolous question, let me assure you, it isn't. I am 100% serious, because I'd like to try germinating some palm seeds pretty soon here.

I am thinking that perhaps I have had rotten luck with sprouting seeds because maybe I did it the wrong way for palms specifically?

In photos I have seen of some of your posts of "seedlings", I have noted on some, that the seed itself is laying ON TOP of the soil.

On others, it seems to be planted IN the soil like a regular seed.

Does whether its "on top" or "planted in" depend on the variety, on personal preference, or what?

Thanks.

[BS Man about Palms]

Gina- I have some theories/observations I have from talking to growers and seeing seedlings, but since what I have germinated (not really trying either) you can count on one hand, I'll wait for others to answer.

I also suggest waiting for answers for a few days too. You might need to bump this thread, traffic is way down on weekends.

Bill

[Palm Guy]

Hi Gina,

Very good question and I myself, had the same question when I started my first batch of palm seeds. In general, the rule is for small seeds to be planted deeper than larger seeds. Larger seeds should be planted about half way into the ground or 3/4. You dont want to cover the grow point ( where roots meet trunk) more than half an inch in seedling stage. Palms are easily killed by covering the growth point with too much soil because of the lack of oxygen travelling to the roots. When the palms get larger you can cover it a little bit more. Smaller seeds should be planted deeper because when watering you risk having the smaller seeds move around and they tend to dry out quicker when sitting on top of the soil. I'd say lightly cover the smaller seeds with a few drops of soil.

If you're going to plant using the baggie method, the seeds will most likely not remain at the top of the soil anyways. I've had seeds at the bottom of the bag germinate and they are still growing nicely. You do have to remove them quickly so its a matter of how long the seeds stay covered. Hope this helps.

Mike

[metalfan]

See? I asked a serious question, and out of 67 views, only 2 people responded.

Thanks you 2 guys.

Would you elaborate on the "baggie method"? Is it the same baggie method as for most other seeds...put a damp paper towel in a sandwich bag, put in seeds and close up? Keep warm?

[metalfan]

See? I asked a serious question, and out of 67 views, only 2 people responded.

Thanks you 2 guys.

Would you elaborate on the "baggie method"? Is it the same baggie method as for most other seeds...put a damp paper towel in a sandwich bag, put in seeds and close up? Keep warm?

Why did this post twice?

[Tyrone]

It really doesn't matter whether it's above or underneath the soil as long as the seed receives constant high humidity. A deeper planted seed though will produce better root development because of the closer proximity to the soil. A general rule is to place the seed just under the soil, but a slightly deeper position won't hurt. I've had Dypsis decaryi seeds germinate on top of moist perlite. They were not pushed into the perlite at all.

regards

Tyrone

[Gbarce]

There was a thread started by Kris (from india) on seed germination with lots and lots of pictures  and showed all the steps from from soaking the seed up to planting them individually.  That was very helpful.

but to answer your immediate question - The baggie method uses more than just moist tissue paper.  Usually Sphagnum moss (or in my case coco peat has worked very very well for me) is used to keep seeds moist but not wet.  Basically you soak the moss in water and then squeeze the hell out of it!! whatever moisture is left in the moss is just right --anything moister or wetter than that  is supposedly too wet and your seed could rot or breed fungus.  The seeds would be buried in this so that they slowly rehydrates and triggers the seed to germinate.  Also place the bag in a warm place to help speed up germination. once the seeds pop then its time pot them individually.

I plant the seed with the emerging root entirely in the soil.  But with the remote germinators often the seed is pushed up out of the soil by the root-- sometimes the seed it self is positioned in mid air because of this.

[Phil]

Metalfan,

I think you are safer to plant the seeds below the surface of the mix.  Small seeds should be planted about the same depth as the thickness of the seeds, typically 1/4 to 1/2 inch.  Large seeds (one inch or larger) can be planted such that the top dome of the seed shows above the mix.  The problem with putting seeds on top of the mix is that they can dessicate and never germinate.  Like someone said above, seeds on top have to be kept moist.  This extra applied water or mist can lead to rot.  So, putting them below is better.  Remember that cycad seeds are a bit different than above.  Community pots are more forgiving and give uniform seedlings.  Baggie technique gives a spaghetti of seedlings, all twisted and intertwined, but can work for those with no outdoor or germinating space.  Remember that the single most important factor in germinating is the quality and freshness of the seeds (there are a few exceptions).  Clean off all fruit and watch for fungal problems.  Good luck,

Phil

[metalfan]

I missed the thread by Kris, it must have been before my time of joining.

I don't want to show my total computer inadequacy here, but is there a search function where you can look for old topics like that?

With your collective answers, I think I am new ready to try some seeds. I wanted a good primer, because I want to order unusual seeds, and want to limit wasting cash as much as possible, LOL.

Thank you for your responses, I have taken notes down on paper in my Palm Journal to refer back to.

[Gbarce]

I found the thread of Kris and I bumped it to the front of the messages.  The title is "Materials need for Germination - fresh seeds is a must".

Its long but full of pictures and gives a step by step illustration of what to do.

[Gbarce]

I found the thread of Kris and I bumped it to the front of the messages.  The title is "Materials need for Germination - fresh seeds is a must".

Its long but full of pictures and gives a step by step illustration of what to do.

[metalfan]

Gene, I see you in stereo! Thanks, I will peruse that thread carefully

[Dypsisdean]

Gina,

You may find this article on germination I am preparing for Palmpedia useful.

http://palmpedia.net/wiki/index.php/A_Prim...ting_Palm_Seeds

It even includes a few of Kris' pics in it.

[Gbarce]

Gina - PiousPalms also had a seed germination thread that is also interesting.

I think its called "Breaking up the community pot"

These were the 2 thread I reffered to when I started this seed germination hobby.

Much better than any book.

[freekypalmguy]

Gina,

I think the reason you get so many views and not as many replies is because there are a lot of rookies, like myself, that are waiting to get the same info you seek. I have looked at this thread multiple times waiting for the answers and now have learned some good info. Thank you for posting this question .

As well, I agree with the above recommendations. Goto Kris's thread, Tons of great info. As well the Palmpedia article.

[metalfan]

Oops Matt I thought I was the only rookie here! I lurk on everyone ELSE'S threads for the same reason. I don't know how I missed Kris's thread the first time around!