Snails on coconut palm

[Plantking165]

Now I know regular snails can be harmful to certain plants but these are like sea snails I had found 1 when I first got the tree the husk fell off I found 1. Here we are 2 months later with like 6 I found on the tree after a rain they are babies the shells aren't even fully hard yet. Anyone ever seen these associated with coconut trees much less what they do or eat. I wanna know if they are beneficial or detrimental. Never knew these could breed or survive in central Florida.

[Silas_Sancona]

19 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

Now I know regular snails can be harmful to certain plants but these are like sea snails I had found 1 when I first got the tree the husk fell off I found 1. Here we are 2 months later with like 6 I found on the tree after a rain they are babies the shells aren't even fully hard yet. Anyone ever seen these associated with coconut trees much less what they do or eat. I wanna know if they are beneficial or detrimental. Never knew these could breed or survive in central Florida.

Two possible species to research, that both live in FL. ( Wouldn't be surprised if there are others )

Decollate Snails, which look similar to them, and might occasionally be found there, (  Rumina decollata  ) actually eat your typical, Brown Garden Snail ( ...and Slugs ).  Not sure what Awlsnails prefer.

While far from an ideal place for them, we have Decollate snails here in the desert. There is another Rumina sp. that lives in the Saharan Desert, and parts of far S. Europe near the Mediterranean as well.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/122396-Allopeas-gracile

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/209069-Subulina-octona



As far as " Land / Tree Snails"  S. Florida is home to some fairly exotic looking ones.  The Giant African Land Snail isn't one of them, lol.   One colorful Genus, Drymaeus  has a sp. or two which occur as far north as central Sinaloa in northwestern Mexico.

More info on Florida species / others that occur in the Caribbean.

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/gastro/tree_snails.htm

https://tci.fiu.edu/conservation-programs/tree-snails-of-florida/index.html

https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/invertebrates/florida-tree-snail/

https://www.allbookstores.com/The-Liguus-Tree-Snails-South/9780813018140

[Plantking165]

24 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Two possible species to research, that both live in FL. ( Wouldn't be surprised if there are others )

Decollate Snails, which look similar to them, and might occasionally be found there, (  Rumina decollata  ) actually eat your typical, Brown Garden Snail ( ...and Slugs ).  Not sure what Awlsnails prefer.

While far from an ideal place for them, we have Decollate snails here in the desert. There is another Rumina sp. that lives in the Saharan Desert, and parts of far S. Europe near the Mediterranean as well.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/122396-Allopeas-gracile

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/209069-Subulina-octona



As far as " Land / Tree Snails"  S. Florida is home to some fairly exotic looking ones.  The Giant African Land Snail isn't one of them, lol.   One colorful Genus, Drymaeus  has a sp. or two which occur as far north as central Sinaloa in northwestern Mexico.

More info on Florida species / others that occur in the Caribbean.

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/gastro/tree_snails.htm

https://tci.fiu.edu/conservation-programs/tree-snails-of-florida/index.html

https://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/profiles/invertebrates/florida-tree-snail/

https://www.allbookstores.com/The-Liguus-Tree-Snails-South/9780813018140

I guess they feed on plant material but i hope they aren't bad for my coconut palms. 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

I guess they feed on plant material but i hope they aren't bad for my coconut palms. 

The native sps. might occasionally nibble on a leaflet or two, but definitely wouldn't defoliate an entire palm.  The big, invasive snail can definitely damage stuff.  Can also carry nasty bacteria / parasites.

[Plantking165]

Just now, Silas_Sancona said:

The native sps. might occasionally nibble on a leaflet or two, but definitely wouldn't defoliate an entire palm.  The big, invasive snail can definitely damage stuff.  Can also carry nasty bacteria / parasites.

So far it's only a bunch of small ones hiding in the old leaf bases they wouldn't eat the leaf base or stems would they, because I don't want them to hurt the trunk formation of this palm.

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

So far it's only a bunch of small ones hiding in the old leaf bases they wouldn't eat the leaf base or stems would they, because I don't want them to hurt the trunk formation of this palm.

Those tiny mouths won't hurt a thing.. likely preferring  softer plant material like tender grass blades / weedy things over tougher leaves like Palm leaflets..  

If native snails / other leaf eaters were overly detrimental to -any- plant's development there, there would be no Coconuts, or other trees/ other stuff..  Plants can handle most of nature's grazers w/ out worry.

[Looking Glass]

When we first moved into the house, there were tons of snails and slugs.  I mean tons…. After a rain, those big quarter-sized round ones (Cuban land snails I think) would be all over the sides of the house and on the stalks and trunks of every plant, and all over the sidewalks and driveway.  There where at least 3 kinds of smaller ones…. Ramshorn shaped ones, and ones like your pic, seem to come in nursery pots with various plants.   

They would damage soft leaved ornamentals and occasionally little baby palms with soft leaves, like Ravenea rivularis.   

They all disappear, except for the shells, if you sprinkle some “slug and snail bait” around the problem areas.   We went from thousands to almost none fairly quickly.  Never saw damage to bigger palms, but they could chew up tropical ornamental plants sometimes.  

https://www.fdacs.gov/content/download/23825/file/giant-african-land-snail-identification-sheet.pdf

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Plantking165]

8 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

When we first moved into the house, there were tons of snails and slugs.  I mean tons…. After a rain, those big quarter-sized round ones (Cuban land snails I think) would be all over the sides of the house and on the stalks and trunks of every plant, and all over the sidewalks and driveway.  There where at least 3 kinds of smaller ones…. Ramshorn shaped ones, and ones like your pic, seem to come in nursery pots with various plants.   

They would damage soft leaved ornamentals and occasionally little baby palms with soft leaves, like Ravenea rivularis.   

They all disappear, except for the shells, if you sprinkle some “slug and snail bait” around the problem areas.   We went from thousands to almost none fairly quickly.  Never saw damage to bigger palms, but they could chew up tropical ornamental plants sometimes.  

https://www.fdacs.gov/content/download/23825/file/giant-african-land-snail-identification-sheet.pdf

 

Thanks bro. Looks to be just a few that are breeding inside the old leaf bases i saw one inside of it. I might have to try that bait stuff u mentioned.

[Looking Glass]

45 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

Thanks bro. Looks to be just a few that are breeding inside the old leaf bases i saw one inside of it. I might have to try that bait stuff u mentioned.

It works really well.   If they are hammering a plant, they will be sleeping during the day in the leaf litter and crevices underneath and nearby.  Just sprinkle some under and around the plant victim.   I’ve used it on potted plants that came with their own supply of mini-snails.   

They are probably just taking shelter in the leaf bases.  

[mnorell]

Please do not destroy Florida native tree snails! Many forms are native to small areas and some are highly endangered. In the Keys we have snails that only occur on one Key or another. They pose absolutely no problem to your palms. And slug/snail bait is highly dangerous to wildlife and pets. Please realize that Mother Nature has a highly balanced ecosystem and adding poison to it just causes disaster, not only at the level you apply it, but far up the food-chain. You are probably spending WAY too much time focusing on some fictional boogey-monster that's going to destroy your palm trees. Tree snails are not going to be that boogey-monster. Keep your palms healthy and let nature take its course, and you should be fine. Be aware that the Florida Tree Snail is protected by State Law and you may be committing a crime by killing them. See here in this info-sheet at the Florida Wildlife Commission.

[Plantking165]

13 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Please do not destroy Florida native tree snails! Many forms are native to small areas and some are highly endangered. In the Keys we have snails that only occur on one Key or another. They pose absolutely no problem to your palms. And slug/snail bait is highly dangerous to wildlife and pets. Please realize that Mother Nature has a highly balanced ecosystem and adding poison to it just causes disaster, not only at the level you apply it, but far up the food-chain. You are probably spending WAY too much time focusing on some fictional boogey-monster that's going to destroy your palm trees. Tree snails are not going to be that boogey-monster. Keep your palms healthy and let nature take its course, and you should be fine. Be aware that the Florida Tree Snail is protected by State Law and you may be committing a crime by killing them. See here in this info-sheet at the Florida Wildlife Commission.

Yeah we don't have Florida tree snails here in central Florida I've never seen those before plus those are big these snails are tiny and stay tiny they are quite common and breed very rapidly.

[mnorell]

Yes, they are very tiny in the Keys also. I have had them continuously in my landscape there for years. They will not cause you any problems. However, if for some reason you have any reason to believe that these snails are destroying your palms, please contact your local UF extension office to have an ID so you can gather information before you start poisoning them (and the environment). And here is an info sheet on Florida Tree snails, including those that are native to Central Florida. Tree Snails of Florida. 

[Silas_Sancona]

13 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

Yeah we don't have Florida tree snails here in central Florida I've never seen those before plus those are big these snails are tiny and stay tiny they are quite common and breed very rapidly.

Native snails come in ALL sizes.. not just small or large.

Check these maps.. Species of both Genus of larger Tree Snails occur,  ..or have been observed in Central Fl.

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/49777-Drymaeus

https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/172022-Liguus

Edited August 10, 2022 by Silas_Sancona
edit

[Plantking165]

4 minutes ago, mnorell said:

Yes, they are very tiny in the Keys also. I have had them continuously in my landscape there for years. They will not cause you any problems. However, if for some reason you have any reason to believe that these snails are destroying your palms, please contact your local UF extension office to have an ID so you can gather information before you start poisoning them (and the environment). And here is an info sheet on Florida Tree snails, including those that are native to Central Florida. Tree Snails of Florida. 

I dont have any plans to poison them the point of this post was to find out if they will be an inconvenience to my growing palms as some snails can be damaging to plants in high numbers. They are new to me so I had to ask as my palms are already stressed enough with sunburn and diseases and deficiency. So even the slightest inconvenience of them adding damage to the plams would add into the cumulative affect of them suffering more than they already are. I don't plan on doing anything about the snails unless they cause me visible problems I can see. Here are pics of my plams that are in fairly rough condition.

[Looking Glass]

Native land/tree snails are pretty easy to identify.   They all have that, what I would call, pointy,  almost triangular shell.   Very distinctive looking.    The invasive land ones vastly dominate the snail population here.   So much so that you could probably spend years searching for a native one locally, but gather 100s of the invasive Cuban types in a few yards in my neighborhood, on a single rainy night.  

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/pleurodontidae_snails.htm

Unfortunately, like so many species down here, invasive species dominate the local neighborhood wildlife populations.   For every native green anole in my yard, there are 10 giant ameivas, 50 Cuban Brown Anoles, a couple of Cuban Night Anoles, and a several Green Iguanas, and a handful of CurlyTails.  The latter, are all invasive, and other than iguanas, don’t cause problems in yards and with structures.   

That snail poison is 1% iron in apple mash pellets.   That small amount of iron of kills them.   

But I agree, minimal risk to palms.    Mostly cosmetic damage to tropical ornamentals.  

[Looking Glass]

The original snail in question is most definitely a non-native awlsnail (Allopeas) but beyond that, malacolgy is a tricky business.  

[Plantking165]

9 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

The original snail in question is most definitely a non-native awlsnail (Allopeas) but beyond that, malacolgy is a tricky business.  

Yeah it looks almost exactly like an awlsnail

[mnorell]

5 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

That snail poison is 1% iron in apple mash pellets.   That small amount of iron of kills them.   

Snail baits typically contain a poison, metaldehyde. It is extremely dangerous to almost any animal that ingests it...and it is highly palatable. See here: Metaldehyde poisoning - Merck Veterinary Manual

[Looking Glass]

4 hours ago, mnorell said:

Snail baits typically contain a poison, metaldehyde. It is extremely dangerous to almost any animal that ingests it...and it is highly palatable. See here: Metaldehyde poisoning - Merck Veterinary Manual

Not sure why anyone would use it though, over the simple iron baits that seem to work so well.  Typical snail baits use metaldehyde, or iron, or boric acid.  (Or the old grandmother’s trick of a saucer of beer works too).   It looks like metaldehyde is more effective, but due to toxicity issues, iron baits were later developed.   They seem to work very well, if needed.   

When we first got the house here, there was a think layer of vines in all the garden beds, it looked like yellow adler, but very low and fast growing.   It grew a foot a week in the summer, and dropped leaves like crazy.   Under that, were tons of Cuban brown snails, ..I mean tons.  

They did significant damage to some of the plants I first put in.  I put a few handfuls of that iron bait down, and it worked like crazy.   After a couple of days the entire property smelled like rotting death for a week due to the number of dead snails.   We later took out all of the vines, which was quite a job.  There was one empty snail shell per square inch under there.