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Plantking165

Brownish tinge to coconut leaflets

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Plantking165

Something new I've noticed on my coconut fronds especially one of the newer fronds not completely new its an upper canopy frond, is a yellowish more brownish tinge to the leaves and its concerning because it's a newer frond anyone have this experience before? I can get pics of the color tomorrow morning but there also is some redish brown spots that are drying out and I can see it forming around different spots and different fronds anyone know what both of these problems are.20220629_161116.thumb.jpg.a98d282fbd0efb187a210aa072b0d4c9.jpg

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idontknowhatnametuse

How daily are you watering it?

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Plantking165
20 minutes ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

How daily are you watering it?

Planted in pure sand with cow manure on top and I water almost daily and we are getting lots of rain lately planted a month ago 

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idontknowhatnametuse
2 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

Planted in pure sand with cow manure on top and I water almost daily and we are getting lots of rain lately planted a month ago 

I'm no expert but maybe it could be overwatering, Coconut palms don't like wet feet as far as I know. When my coconuts were still alive I watered them every 1 or 2 days to let the soil dry out a bit.

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Plantking165
1 minute ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

I'm no expert but maybe it could be overwatering, Coconut palms don't like wet feet as far as I know. When my coconuts were still alive I watered them every 1 or 2 days to let the soil dry out a bit.

I'm not too sure it's over watering as I do water every other or 2 days but with rain it might be a bit much but it seems this discoloration is spreading and then proceeds to dry out the leaves can over watering even cause drying out of leaflets 

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idontknowhatnametuse

When overwatering starts, it affects older fronds first by making them dry out a bit. Then it makes the newer ones yellow with brown spots.

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Plantking165

Hmmm seems like it but it also doesn't something just doesn't add up it seems sporadic 

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GottmitAlex

Can we get the palms backstory? How old is it? Where is it? More pics?

In order to get the full picture. Pun intended. 

 

Thanks

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Plantking165
5 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Can we get the palms backstory? How old is it? Where is it? More pics?

In order to get the full picture. Pun intended. 

 

Thanks

Alright full backstory it is. So little over a month ago I went down to naples Florida bought 2 palms this is the fiji dwarf I bought its dealing with some severe blight issues and this redish brown and yellowing is new and it's spreading to some of tbe newer leaves. I'll have to get a couple pics of tbe newer leaves and the discoloration of that fronds leaflets in the morning but fornow these pics will do. I have fertilized with palm fertilizer 2 weeks ago. I give lots of water as it's still a new transplant. Oh and there is a slight spidermite infestation at hand I'm going to spray for that with avid miticide when these rainy days clear up a bit. It's in an open area receiving full sun. Also to mention the discolored areas are drying out it seems or the area gets wrinkles like its drying.20220626_064709.thumb.jpg.2f513fbebacc3a1921005b3064e3deb8.jpg

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Blueman

Spider mites... Was it from a greenhouse?  What kind of fertilizer and where was it applied?  

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Plantking165
1 hour ago, Blueman said:

Spider mites... Was it from a greenhouse?  What kind of fertilizer and where was it applied?  

No it wasn't from a green house and it was a 16-5-25 with essential palm micronutrients applied as a liquid around the base

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JLM
14 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

No it wasn't from a green house and it was a 16-5-25 with essential palm micronutrients applied as a liquid around the base

You should check out slow release fertilizers like Palmgain. With slow release you only need to fertilize every 2-3 months during the growing season.

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IHB1979

I think you're dealing with the palm transitioning after transplant. The brown areas look like sunburn which is probably stressing the palm which opens it up to other things. Sounds like you're doing everything you can to get it established, the palm simply needs time to adjust to the new location. If you have sandy soil, it's going to be very difficult to overwater in Central Florida. 

It's hard to tell in the photo, but if you were to move the mulch away, is the coconut planted a little high? Probably not an issue now but may become one down the road. 

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Plantking165
20 minutes ago, IHB1979 said:

I think you're dealing with the palm transitioning after transplant. The brown areas look like sunburn which is probably stressing the palm which opens it up to other things. Sounds like you're doing everything you can to get it established, the palm simply needs time to adjust to the new location. If you have sandy soil, it's going to be very difficult to overwater in Central Florida. 

It's hard to tell in the photo, but if you were to move the mulch away, is the coconut planted a little high? Probably not an issue now but may become one down the road. 

It is actually planted a bit high where you can see the root zone below the mulch but that shouldn't be a huge problem at best it will probably create a small weaker area that might be a problem in a storm but I dint think it's that bad of an issue. Here are pics of tbe newer frond this morning hard to tell in pics but it's yellowish brown all the leaflets are they used to be a nice green it's been in the ground for a month I think its beyond adjusted to sunlight for this to show up now and my young red spicata this week has some yellowing from the tip down pretty quickly too.

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IHB1979

Unfortunately the only fronds that will be truly adjusted are new ones emerging post planting. How many new fonds have emerged since planting? There's just no way a palm that was grown in anything less then full-sun can transition/adjust it's existing fronds to Florida's blazing full-sun. 

Keep doing what you're doing and the palm will look great in a couple months. 

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Plantking165
7 minutes ago, IHB1979 said:

Unfortunately the only fronds that will be truly adjusted are new ones emerging post planting. How many new fonds have emerged since planting? There's just no way a palm that was grown in anything less then full-sun can transition/adjust it's existing fronds to Florida's blazing full-sun. 

Keep doing what you're doing and the palm will look great in a couple months. 

Well im not sure if he had it in full sun prior to me picking it up but that could be the issue there is some pretty bad yellowing on one side of the newest frond it was partly open when I got it ill show you that pic then now 1 month later. You can see the yellow side from the back side of the new frond its been 1 month and it's grown a but but still hasn't put out the new frond that was partly open when I got it. The first pic shows before I put cow manure on top how deep it's actually planted I did put a bit of sand up on the roots higher in that pic but now the manure covers that. I take great care of this palm im quite knowledgeable in coconut palms just some odd things happening pretty rapidly that don't quite add up like the browning areas that are turning dry and dead very quickly. 

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Plantking165

This is also what is spreading all over the palm its a faint dark area that looks water soaked with a brownish color no idea what it is but it's acting fast I notice it more daily look closely at the dark looking areas Screenshot_20220630-111955_Gallery.thumb.jpg.3b34ff1d678f54eb7da9fd8034bfc930.jpgScreenshot_20220630-112019_Gallery.thumb.jpg.e7cf26394154bdd3ddd8c1ebabf41072.jpg

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Merlyn

The reddish-brown areas definitely look like sunburn.  Once you've seen it a couple of times it is easy to recognize.  That's pretty normal for going from partial sun to full blazing sun, especially with how hot it's been recently in central FL.  Normally by the end of May we are getting daily afternoon thunderstorms, which keeps the peak temperatures down during the hottest 2-3pm part of the day.  I have a lot of plants (palms and cycads) with sunburn right now. 

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Plantking165
1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

The reddish-brown areas definitely look like sunburn.  Once you've seen it a couple of times it is easy to recognize.  That's pretty normal for going from partial sun to full blazing sun, especially with how hot it's been recently in central FL.  Normally by the end of May we are getting daily afternoon thunderstorms, which keeps the peak temperatures down during the hottest 2-3pm part of the day.  I have a lot of plants (palms and cycads) with sunburn right now. 

What about those dark sunken looking areas im seeing pop up, seeing more if it daily. 

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Merlyn

@Plantking165 the dark sunken areas on the rachis/petiole still seem like a kind of rachis blight to me.  We discussed that on the other thread, I don't have any other ideas or suggestions for that part.

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Plantking165
6 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Plantking165 the dark sunken areas on the rachis/petiole still seem like a kind of rachis blight to me.  We discussed that on the other thread, I don't have any other ideas or suggestions for that part.

Yeah thats still bad but this is different it's recently this week showing up on leaf blades all across the palm pretty rapidly nowhere on the rachis or petiole this is new I have absolutely no idea what it is either 

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Merlyn
22 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

Yeah thats still bad but this is different it's recently this week showing up on leaf blades all across the palm pretty rapidly nowhere on the rachis or petiole this is new I have absolutely no idea what it is either 

Ah, I thought you meant the sunken spots on the rachis/petiole.  The brown spots on the older fronds are typical of new transplants.  The palm "eats" the old fronds to power new root and frond growth.  Cutting them off early just deprives the palm of nutrients.  So if the *new* fronds are looking nice, but the *oldest* fronds are looking ragged, then that's totally normal.  As a reference, here's my notes on deficiencies:

  • Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
  • Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
  • Magnesium - Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
  • Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
  • Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
  • Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
  • Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
  • Dolomitic Lime or Azomite - Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
  • Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

The yellowing and dead spots are a sign of a potassium deficiency, but you don't normally want to fertilize right after transplanting.  At least 1 month after the transplant you could give it a small amount of timed release granular fertilizer...maybe 1/2 a handful sprinkled nearby.  At 2 months a "normal" dose is okay.

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Plantking165
24 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Ah, I thought you meant the sunken spots on the rachis/petiole.  The brown spots on the older fronds are typical of new transplants.  The palm "eats" the old fronds to power new root and frond growth.  Cutting them off early just deprives the palm of nutrients.  So if the *new* fronds are looking nice, but the *oldest* fronds are looking ragged, then that's totally normal.  As a reference, here's my notes on deficiencies:

  • Nitrogen - Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe
  • Potassium - Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards
  • Magnesium - Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis
  • Iron - Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.
  • Manganese - Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency
  • Boron - Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open
  • Water - Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
  • Dolomitic Lime or Azomite - Magnesium Carbonate – slower release and adds Magnesium, helps avoid Potassium deficiencies in Cuban Copernicias. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis
  • Garden Lime - Calcium Carbonate – fast release but works well. 5Lb per palm on full-size Copernicias and a bit less on Kentiopsis Oliviformis

The yellowing and dead spots are a sign of a potassium deficiency, but you don't normally want to fertilize right after transplanting.  At least 1 month after the transplant you could give it a small amount of timed release granular fertilizer...maybe 1/2 a handful sprinkled nearby.  At 2 months a "normal" dose is okay.

I wasn't referring to brown spots I meant this darkened area I'm seeing pop up from low fronds to new ones and here are a pic from this morning vs now its worse and I have no idea what's causing this and it's rapid spread. As you can see it spreads down the leaflets Screenshot_20220630-111955_Gallery.thumb.jpg.6daa6b770a342d42cb5aefc847736afd.jpgScreenshot_20220630-111955_Gallery.thumb.jpg.6daa6b770a342d42cb5aefc847736afd.jpg20220630_173239.thumb.jpg.4e822a6297ae36117c3c7ad38d31a913.jpg20220630_173222.thumb.jpg.ad4a8234c77d5b0cf817e0d9c48f6870.jpg

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Merlyn

@Plantking165 I didn't even notice that in the original photos.  The original photos are pretty typical for a recent transplant.  The additional discoloration just looks like a bit more of the same, just milder.  A foliar spray (if done in bright sun) can cause discoloration or some sunburn.  I honestly don't obsess so much about individual palms, because I currently have 317 palms, 225 cycads, around 300 agaves/aloes/cacti and a total of just under 1000 individual plantings in the ground.  It will literally take 3-6 months for a palm to root in and acclimate to new sun and soil.  You can expect weird discoloration, rapid death of old fronds, excessive yellowing, all kinds of things happen when you take a palm out of a greenhouse and put it in the ground.  If you've given it some fungicide and some timed-release fertilizer then perhaps step back and let it grow into place?

I would comment that adding cow manure to any palm planting is generally not recommended.  It's great for things like bamboo, bananas, and other tropicals.  But compost is not a great choice for palms, cycads, agaves, aloes, or cacti.  It tends to stay "mucky" when wet, even if thoroughly mixed into the soil.  That can potentially cause root rot.  Palms prefer extra aeration for roots, adding things like perlite, Turface MVP, or pumice is a better choice.  So for future plantings you could add a bit of perlite and a bit of generic "topsoil" or "potting mix" to the hole and mix it up really well into your native sand...but avoid the compost.

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Plantking165
7 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Plantking165 I didn't even notice that in the original photos.  The original photos are pretty typical for a recent transplant.  The additional discoloration just looks like a bit more of the same, just milder.  A foliar spray (if done in bright sun) can cause discoloration or some sunburn.  I honestly don't obsess so much about individual palms, because I currently have 317 palms, 225 cycads, around 300 agaves/aloes/cacti and a total of just under 1000 individual plantings in the ground.  It will literally take 3-6 months for a palm to root in and acclimate to new sun and soil.  You can expect weird discoloration, rapid death of old fronds, excessive yellowing, all kinds of things happen when you take a palm out of a greenhouse and put it in the ground.  If you've given it some fungicide and some timed-release fertilizer then perhaps step back and let it grow into place?

I would comment that adding cow manure to any palm planting is generally not recommended.  It's great for things like bamboo, bananas, and other tropicals.  But compost is not a great choice for palms, cycads, agaves, aloes, or cacti.  It tends to stay "mucky" when wet, even if thoroughly mixed into the soil.  That can potentially cause root rot.  Palms prefer extra aeration for roots, adding things like perlite, Turface MVP, or pumice is a better choice.  So for future plantings you could add a bit of perlite and a bit of generic "topsoil" or "potting mix" to the hole and mix it up really well into your native sand...but avoid the compost.

The compost is just on top should be ok other than that it's full sand. Do you think it could be I sprayed the heritage sc fungicide over a week ago is affecting it now? I sprayed before it got dark so no sun for a while. And yeah I am picky with the few palms I have especially since I've put good amounts of money into it. You have alot of palms and plants so I can see where you wouldn't be as concerned as I am. As for the spider mite infestation do you think it's ok to use avid miticide now or wait and just rub the mites off by hand as I see them fornow. 

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Merlyn

I don't know if compost has anything to do with your issues.  But if the watering (or rain) only makes the compost wet and doesn't filter through to the sand & rootball, then your palm could be water-stressed despite *appearing* to receive water.  That's one of the many reasons that people on here (with decades of palm growing experience) say to avoid compost for basically all palm species.

If you got the concentration of Heritage SC right, I wouldn't think that is a problem.  It's rated for foliar and soil drench.  So as long as you applied a "normal" amount to the palm I wouldn't be concerned about it.  Just don't apply 10x the label recommendations.

As far as Avid goes, spider mite infestations are pretty rare in outdoor palms in full sun.  Usually the rain washes them off, and full sun is a good deterrent.  One of the common recommendations for indoor palms is just to take the palm into the shower and spray off the spider mites.  I didn't see any signs of mites in your photos, but apparently the red palm mite loves cocos and doesn't spin webs.  They are apparently easy to spot visually:

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/palms/red_palm_mite.htm

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Plantking165
1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

I don't know if compost has anything to do with your issues.  But if the watering (or rain) only makes the compost wet and doesn't filter through to the sand & rootball, then your palm could be water-stressed despite *appearing* to receive water.  That's one of the many reasons that people on here (with decades of palm growing experience) say to avoid compost for basically all palm species.

If you got the concentration of Heritage SC right, I wouldn't think that is a problem.  It's rated for foliar and soil drench.  So as long as you applied a "normal" amount to the palm I wouldn't be concerned about it.  Just don't apply 10x the label recommendations.

As far as Avid goes, spider mite infestations are pretty rare in outdoor palms in full sun.  Usually the rain washes them off, and full sun is a good deterrent.  One of the common recommendations for indoor palms is just to take the palm into the shower and spray off the spider mites.  I didn't see any signs of mites in your photos, but apparently the red palm mite loves cocos and doesn't spin webs.  They are apparently easy to spot visually:

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/palms/red_palm_mite.htm

There are mites lots of them they may be red palm mite or spider mites im not.  sure its gotten worse than that they are everywhere.20220627_164108.thumb.jpg.e6ed2f4ff71571a8512068fef5bbf204.jpg

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Merlyn
8 minutes ago, Plantking165 said:

There are mites lots of them they may be red palm mite or spider mites im not.  sure its gotten worse than that they are everywhere.20220627_164108.thumb.jpg.e6ed2f4ff71571a8512068fef5bbf204.jpg

Gotcha, yeah those look like red mites.  Regular spider mites tend to weave small webs on the underside of leaves, but apparently the red palm mite does not.  If you have a loupe or magnifying glass I'd take a look and see if they are tiny aphids or spider mites.  I'd guess based on the size that they are mites.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21983877/

"Spray treatments with etoxanole, abamectin, pyridaben, milbemectin and sulfur showed mite control in Florida."  So Abamectin/Avid is effective against them.

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Plantking165
46 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Gotcha, yeah those look like red mites.  Regular spider mites tend to weave small webs on the underside of leaves, but apparently the red palm mite does not.  If you have a loupe or magnifying glass I'd take a look and see if they are tiny aphids or spider mites.  I'd guess based on the size that they are mites.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21983877/

"Spray treatments with etoxanole, abamectin, pyridaben, milbemectin and sulfur showed mite control in Florida."  So Abamectin/Avid is effective against them.

They are mites bc they are red pic doesn't show that well, there is a bit of webbing it looks like when I'm out there but they could be spider mites or rpm not too sure but they will be sprayed soon as these afternoon showers stop on a daily 

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