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Just Say No


GregVirginia7

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Went to Home Depot to get deck sealer and saw a “Pindo” palm…grower from FL. It was $70.00 in what looked like a 2 gal. pot. I’m in 7a/b…NOVA…and as tempted as I was, I said no. In fact, I told myself that’s not why I went anyway. I’d love to have a feather leaf type palm in my little environ here but I know, even in our best winters, they won’t survive without massive protection…but it really gets tempting to give it one more try, which indicates past failure even under protection. Any suggestions for a butia (spell check turned butia into BURIAL :lol:) that may do well with minimal protection? I see people on this forum in NC with variations on the butia theme and they seem to do very well…even though they seem to suffer colder vortex type arctic blasts as the frigid winter air gets funneled down the Blue Ridge mountain chain. Any hope out there? Got a prime spot that would get all the sun has to offer in the winter…just wondering. Love the palms I’ve been growing since 2014 but the selection is getting stale. Seems agaves and now cold hardiest mangaves are beginning to take up more space. Again, I couldn’t be happier with the cold hardy troopers I have. I added another Trachy F. to the backyard zone, however…

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I would think it would be like mine and have to be protected from Mid Dec -Early March for you for best results.  

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Buy it, plant it, protect it!  Most of all enjoy it while it graces your presence.  Just my .02.  

In the words of Sir William Wallace, "Every palm dies, not every palm truly lives...."

Happy gardening. 

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2 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

I’d love to have a feather leaf type palm in my little environ here 

I know most will say "bigger is better" but why not try Chamaedorea radicalis?  I had 10 of 11 plants survive 9° unprotected in Feb 2021.  They probably couldn't be subject to that every winter but they would be easier to protect with their smaller size.  I believe a guy is growing one/some in MD.  They're easy to grow from seed, can handle high heat (105° in my San Antonio yard) and drought as well.  I had a 2 year old seedling start flowering before that freeze also.

Edited by Fusca

Jon Sunder

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9 hours ago, Fusca said:

I know most will say "bigger is better" but why not try Chamaedorea radicalis?  I had 10 of 11 plants survive 9° unprotected in Feb 2021.  They probably couldn't be subject to that every winter but they would be easier to protect with their smaller size.  I believe a guy is growing one/some in MD.  They're easy to grow from seed, can handle high heat (105° in my San Antonio yard) and drought as well.  I had a 2 year old seedling start flowering before that freeze also.

Thank you for the advice…will look that one up.

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You can always do what I do and simply containerize it.  I originally got mine mail order as tiny plants, now they are my biggest, most robust growers.  You can always plant them in the future, and growing them to bulk also is a big advantage for cold hardiness.  Mine go into a loft garage from December to early March.  

 

743B3E15-7008-4F4F-8B78-015E40C5B0C2.thumb.jpeg.e836f2777306d0af4e9fe0488ea4f77d.jpeg

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I purchased one of those butia, from Home Depot, last year and I planted it in my yard, here in Raleigh NC zone 7b, last summer. I gave it my best microclimate. Its planted at the base of a large oak tree, on its south side. The roots of the oak tree keeps the soil in that area pretty dry. Immediately to its east is my greenhouse, which gets heated when temps fall below freezing. I don't keep it warm but I do keep it above freezing. Immediately to the west is the two story section of my house. My butia gets full sun during the winter and is protected a bit from northern wind by the oak tree and my neighbors fence and house on the north side of the tree. Since this past winter was its first in the ground, I protected it for about three weeks in January, when we had frozen precipitation events three weekends in a row. I wrapped it in incandecent net lights and then covered it with frost cloth. We had a low of 17f, one snow of 3", one trace amount of snow and a freezing rain event. It came through all of that just fine. No damage at all. I think I might have to protect it for a few weeks ever few winters. And since they don't grow to towering heights like Washy's, I think I can handle protecting it when I need to. I also planted a butia x Jubaea I purchased from Patrick this spring. Its just a little guy but I'm hoping the hybrid will be a little tougher than my regular butia. I'll protect it the same way I protected my butia for the first few years. 

Edited by knikfar
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8 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Thank you for the advice…will look that one up.

Here is a pic of my C. radicalis flowering.  It's a solitary palm about 3' overall height in the pic.  Similar looking palm to the right is C. microspadix which is suckering and a little less cold hardy.

IMG_20200601_165616.thumb.jpg.e8d0bb0faa2dc2d3fe7a3ef3dbe3d993.jpg

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Jon Sunder

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6 hours ago, knikfar said:

I purchased one of those butia, from Home Depot, last year and I planted it in my yard, here in Raleigh NC zone 7b, last summer. I gave it my best microclimate. Its planted at the base of a large oak tree, on its south side. The roots of the oak tree keeps the soil in that area pretty dry. Immediately to its east is my greenhouse, which gets heated when temps fall below freezing. I don't keep it warm but I do keep it above freezing. Immediately to the west is the two story section of my house. My butia gets full sun during the winter and is protected a bit from northern wind by the oak tree and my neighbors fence and house on the north side of the tree. Since this past winter was its first in the ground, I protected it for about three weeks in January, when we had frozen precipitation events three weekends in a row. I wrapped it in incandecent net lights and then covered it with frost cloth. We had a low of 17f, one snow of 3", one trace amount of snow and a freezing rain event. It came through all of that just fine. No damage at all. I think I might have to protect it for a few weeks ever few winters. And since they don't grow to towering heights like Washy's, I think I can handle protecting it when I need to. I also planted a butia x Jubaea I purchased from Patrick this spring. Its just a little guy but I'm hoping the hybrid will be a little tougher than my regular butia. I'll protect it the same way I protected my butia for the first few years. 

Thank you…maybe that butia is still available and I’ll try it…it was a good size and I’ve protected other palms in the past so I can do that. Like you, I have a good microclimate place for it so maybe I’ll let it’s FL origin slide…who knows…a super cold arctic trough may dip its way through, but there’s always ways to combat that…my best cold hardy Chamaerops green variety is my best proof…maybe a generic “pindo” is worth a try.

image.thumb.jpg.18b0fb63e6bb85e4bd73862572dafaa4.jpg

image.thumb.jpg.218196ff58b2b75765c5c172075ff57b.jpg

That’s a 2’ trunk for any interested zone 7 a/b readers!

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10 hours ago, oasis371 said:

You can always do what I do and simply containerize it.  I originally got mine mail order as tiny plants, now they are my biggest, most robust growers.  You can always plant them in the future, and growing them to bulk also is a big advantage for cold hardiness.  Mine go into a loft garage from December to early March.  

 

743B3E15-7008-4F4F-8B78-015E40C5B0C2.thumb.jpeg.e836f2777306d0af4e9fe0488ea4f77d.jpeg

Thank you for that…my winter storage is less than limited but I am happy with my south facing microclimate…if I try a butia again, I’ll protect it better but not over protect it. Truth be told, I probably under protected my first one with cover but no small incandescent backup…anyway, appreciate the help here. If I get one, I’ll purchase a 5’, heavy duty wire tomato cage and use that as a winter exoskeleton…that method, when wrapped in black landscaping cloth has proven very reliable as a sun’s rays absorber…top it with an umbrella and lay some lights around the base for those nights in the teens and there you have it…till it gets too big and then it’ll contribute its own cold hardy abilities with just minor protection when necessary. Guess I’m changing this to Just Say Yes? :lol:

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@GregVirginia7 to quote the owner of the company I work at. “Why say no when it feels so good to say yes?” Lol, I hate when he says it because it means I have more work to do, but in your case you should do it! :D

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3 minutes ago, teddytn said:

@GregVirginia7 to quote the owner of the company I work at. “Why say no when it feels so good to say yes?” Lol, I hate when he says it because it means I have more work to do, but in your case you should do it! :D

That cage arrangement I talked about really makes it easy…may not look that great, but it’s tidy, contained and reliable, as long as the palm is young…

26AA20D9-9457-4EAD-A919-F599199AB06B.thumb.jpeg.f04e7aa103c259cc81a442f584388e9d.jpeg

Here it is when used on the Brazoria. If it gets super cold, you can wrap up the opening…lights are laid out like a blanket under the blanket of landscaping fabric…the fabric allows the heat to rise through it…probably makes the heat more evenly distributed…

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@GregVirginia7 so do you not protect your Chamaerops? It looks awesome. I just scored a huge one at a local nursery for $40 but put it in a nice pot. Maybe when it outgrows me I will give it a shot..

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Another vote for leaving the Pindo in a pot.  mine spends most of the winter next to my garage (southern exposure) and spends the night in the garage if it's going to be below 20 F or so.  (I just leave it ina wagon and wheel it in and out as needed. So I have one nice feather palm for the pool in the summer.

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10 hours ago, ColumbusPalm said:

@GregVirginia7 so do you not protect your Chamaerops? It looks awesome. I just scored a huge one at a local nursery for $40 but put it in a nice pot. Maybe when it outgrows me I will give it a shot..

I always have but nothing too extreme…

BF84E439-F079-444E-ADAE-36C377B3BD03.thumb.jpeg.4d3a8d2d7cee632e57e2174cc9e11cb0.jpeg

The tenting material is pretty thin…an umbrella tops the cover. A shepherd’s hook it the main support…clothes pins hold the fabric together. On cold, sunny winter days, the black fabric really pulls the heat energy from the sun inside…no data but I think it’s worked well…however, this past winter I let it go on its own and it did great. It was a pretty mild winter though. As for your zone, you would have to protect far better than me. I’m going to be minimal on the protection from now on…only protecting in the worst of winter cases.

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@GregVirginia7 ah ok, thanks for the pic! I would probably make another wood structure like I used for the Waggie if I planted it. There is this overhang at my new house that is south exposure with a bed under it that I am guessing stays pretty dry so may try it there in a couple years. 

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17 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Thank you…maybe that butia is still available and I’ll try it…it was a good size and I’ve protected other palms in the past so I can do that. Like you, I have a good microclimate place for it so maybe I’ll let it’s FL origin slide…who knows…a super cold arctic trough may dip its way through, but there’s always ways to combat that…my best cold hardy Chamaerops green variety is my best proof…maybe a generic “pindo” is worth a try.

image.thumb.jpg.18b0fb63e6bb85e4bd73862572dafaa4.jpg

image.thumb.jpg.218196ff58b2b75765c5c172075ff57b.jpg

That’s a 2’ trunk for any interested zone 7 a/b readers!

I got a chamaerops at Home Depot last year to. It was in the house plant section, just hiding. I planted it outside and didn't protect it at all this winter. One node had spear pull but the other leaves stayed perfectly green. The other nodes had no problem and started pushing out new fronds a few weeks ago. 

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