Help identifying a palm...

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We're building a new house on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The lot is right on the Gulf of Mexico in the very thin (10 miles/15 km south to north) strip of zone 9A that surrounds the northern gulf coast of the USA. There is a single humble palm on the two acre lot! A photo is attached. Can anybody identify this palm? 

This lonely palm seems to be doing well. We plan to plant many more this summer as the house goes up.

Edited May 20, 2022 by jpg
Added frond photo.

[JLM]

Looks like Washingtonia robusta, or the common name of Mexican Fan Palm. 

The W. robusta has sharp thorns on the fronds, and has purple on the bases. Im not sure what the technical term is for these parts.

If it was a W. filifera, it would have no thorns and green bases. There is also a hybrid called the W. filibusta, which is a mix between the robusta and filifera. 

So, you either have a W. robusta or a W. filibusta that is mostly robusta. I'd lean more towards a solid robusta though.

Also, please post more pics of the palms you end up planting later on, we'd love to see them!

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26 minutes ago, JLM said:

Also, please post more pics of the palms you end up planting later on, we'd love to see them!

Thank you for the ID, JLM. I really want this little tree to survive, and will tell the contractors to take care of it. I will also post liberally as the new trees are selected and planted. The lot is very close the owner of Mule Palms of Mississippi, so I plan to try a few his Mules, as well as a few sable palmettos. There is also a bayou on one side of the property. I want to find something palm-like that will grow in there to replace popcorn trees and snakes!

For some reason, sago palms (cycas revoluta, I think) seem to be used extensively as landscape plantings in this area. I'm not sure I like their appearance. They seem so... primeval!

The old house is on North Captiva Island, FL, and palms were everywhere. We probably had close to 50 sable palmettos on our lot, plus another dozen or so coconut palms. I had to fight volunteer sable palmettos from taking over the place! I even had a volunteer phoenix sylvestris (or so I was told) that came from who where... birds, I guess. I wish I still had the volunteer palm problem!

[JLM]

1 minute ago, jpg said:

Thank you for the ID, JLM. I really want this little tree to survive, and will tell the contractors to take care of it. I will also post liberally as the new trees are selected and planted. The lot is very close the owner of Mule Palms of Mississippi, so I plan to try a few his Mules, as well as a few sable palmettos. There is also a bayou on one side of the property. I want to find something palm-like that will grow in there to replace popcorn trees and snakes!

For some reason, sago palms (cycas revoluta, I think) seem to be used extensively as landscape plantings in this area. I'm not sure I like their appearance. They seem so... primeval!

The old house is on North Captiva Island, FL, and palms were everywhere. We probably had close to 50 sable palmettos on our lot, plus another dozen or so coconut palms. I had to fight volunteer sable palmettos from taking over the place! I even had a volunteer phoenix sylvestris (or so I was told) that came from who where... birds, I guess. I wish I still had the volunteer palm problem!

Oh goodness, anything but popcorn trees. Bananas would probably love it right next to the bayou.

The palm pictured should do well for you, there are lots of them along the coastal FL panhandle areas, which is also 9a. Mules sound like a great choice! If you wanted, you could also find a young Phoenix sylvestris and plant it there too, there are several growing in 8b areas of the panhandle. 

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9 hours ago, JLM said:

Oh goodness, anything but popcorn trees. Bananas would probably love it right next to the bayou.

The palm pictured should do well for you, there are lots of them along the coastal FL panhandle areas, which is also 9a. Mules sound like a great choice! If you wanted, you could also find a young Phoenix sylvestris and plant it there too, there are several growing in 8b areas of the panhandle. 

The banana trees are a great suggestion for the bayou. Any for a recommendation for a cultivar? Edible fruit would be a positive... snake repellant a HUGE positive, lol! Cottonmouths are present, and my wife saw one a few days ago that fits the description!

I also like the Phoenix sylvestris suggestion. The volunteer rooted in the middle of a pathway and grew without any fertilizer or supplemental watering. It looked "strange" compared to the sables and coconut palms around it, so I left it alone. It seemed to grow fast, with nice symmetric fronds and impressive thorns. I eventually dug up a two-foot root ball and transplanted it out of the pathway.  A passer-by identified it as a "Sylvester palm," and it so happened that there were a few specimens on the other side of the island. Those specimens and the birds explained the original source mystery!

I really like silver Bismarckia Nobilis trees. A seed seller on eBay claims outdoor hardiness from zones 8b-11, so I suppose we would have a chance. Any cautionary advice about these trees?

Yes, I dread the fight against the popcorn trees. On North Captiva we fought a never-ending battle against Brazilian Pepper. New place, new fight against a different invasive species! There are probably 20 or so large popcorn trees in the bayou undoubtedly hundreds of seedlings. The strategy is to cut down the large trees and treat the stumps with glyphosate. I also plan to purchase a walk-behind brush cutter to tame the undergrowth.

Thanks again for the information and advice, JLM!

[Xerarch]

4 hours ago, jpg said:

I really like silver Bismarckia Nobilis trees. A seed seller on eBay claims outdoor hardiness from zones 8b-11
 

8b is a real stretch for a Basmarckia, sure they have been known to survive (or die) in 8b temps like if you live in a 9b and on a real bad year they got hit with 8b temps.  But planting one in 8b is just asking for it to get obliterated.   I'm sure somebody on the forum could show some looking good in a 9a, but realistically for me, it's a 9b+ palm. 

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31 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

8b is a real stretch for a Basmarckia, sure they have been known to survive (or die) in 8b temps like if you live in a 9b and on a real bad year they got hit with 8b temps.  But planting one in 8b is just asking for it to get obliterated.   I'm sure somebody on the forum could show some looking good in a 9a, but realistically for me, it's a 9b+ palm. 

 Well, I guess that explains why I did not see a single Bismarckia while driving around the neighborhood! To be honest, I am suspicious about the 9a designation. That little 9a band along the Mississippi gulf coast is SO narrow. Thank you for the guidance, Xerarch!

[ahosey01]

16 minutes ago, jpg said:

 Well, I guess that explains why I did not see a single Bismarckia while driving around the neighborhood! To be honest, I am suspicious about the 9a designation. That little 9a band along the Mississippi gulf coast is SO narrow. Thank you for the guidance, Xerarch!

Bismarckia are long-term 9a in dry climates like Arizona and California, and long-term 9b in wet climates like Florida and the gulf.

If you want something similar in terms of size, scale and leaf structure, you could absolutely grow Sabal causiarum.  It will be a slug for the first few years, but should take off immensely once it starts getting some trunk.

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Adam, I googled Sabal causiarum and you're right, it has a wonderful shape that reminds me of Bismarkia. It sounds like it should do well in our humid 9a. I will definitely put it on our list and start looking for a source. Thank you.

[JLM]

9 hours ago, jpg said:

The banana trees are a great suggestion for the bayou. Any for a recommendation for a cultivar? Edible fruit would be a positive... snake repellant a HUGE positive, lol! Cottonmouths are present, and my wife saw one a few days ago that fits the description!

I also like the Phoenix sylvestris suggestion. The volunteer rooted in the middle of a pathway and grew without any fertilizer or supplemental watering. It looked "strange" compared to the sables and coconut palms around it, so I left it alone. It seemed to grow fast, with nice symmetric fronds and impressive thorns. I eventually dug up a two-foot root ball and transplanted it out of the pathway.  A passer-by identified it as a "Sylvester palm," and it so happened that there were a few specimens on the other side of the island. Those specimens and the birds explained the original source mystery!

I really like silver Bismarckia Nobilis trees. A seed seller on eBay claims outdoor hardiness from zones 8b-11, so I suppose we would have a chance. Any cautionary advice about these trees?

Yes, I dread the fight against the popcorn trees. On North Captiva we fought a never-ending battle against Brazilian Pepper. New place, new fight against a different invasive species! There are probably 20 or so large popcorn trees in the bayou undoubtedly hundreds of seedlings. The strategy is to cut down the large trees and treat the stumps with glyphosate. I also plan to purchase a walk-behind brush cutter to tame the undergrowth.

Thanks again for the information and advice, JLM!

I am growing a Bizzy in 8b from seed just to see how it goes. I do not expect it to live long, especially since they grow so fast. I am also growing Queens, which you could also get away with if you wanted. Although im sure you wouldnt want Queens since they are so common where you use to be. 

Sounds like the popcorn tree removal will be quite the task! Can we get before and after pics of the bayou once its done?

[JLM]

Also for bananas, if you wanted them just solely for the tropical vibe and no fruit, you could try Musa basjoo. If you want fruit, ive seen something about the Orinoco banana being a good candidate for good fruit. Of course if you wanted bananas like the ones in the store, the Cavendish banana is the way to go.

[Xerarch]

7 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

similar in terms of size, scale and leaf structure, you could absolutely grow Sabal causiarum.  

Or Sabal uresana!

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4 hours ago, JLM said:

I am growing a Bizzy in 8b from seed just to see how it goes. I do not expect it to live long, especially since they grow so fast. I am also growing Queens, which you could also get away with if you wanted. Although im sure you wouldnt want Queens since they are so common where you use to be. 

Sounds like the popcorn tree removal will be quite the task! Can we get before and after pics of the bayou once its done?

I followed you; please let us know how the Bizzy does! I think Queens are beautiful, but there were not many on North Captiva. However, there seemed to be lots of lots of Royal Palms (Roystonea regia).

I had never heard of popcorn trees. I think they moved in after Katrina killed off a lot of the native trees. The block some of the Gulf view and seem to be killing off the undergrowth in the bayou. Net time we visit the site (hopefully for the ground breaking) I will count the large trees and get some close-in photos.  Fortunately, control procedures are similar to those for Brazilian Pepper and I have a good chainsaw!

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2 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Or Sabal uresana!

Looked these up: the blue/green versions are stunning. I want a couple! They are now on the wish list!

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5 hours ago, JLM said:

Also for bananas, if you wanted them just solely for the tropical vibe and no fruit, you could try Musa basjoo. If you want fruit, ive seen something about the Orinoco banana being a good candidate for good fruit. Of course if you wanted bananas like the ones in the store, the Cavendish banana is the way to go.

Thanks for the Musa basjoo tip, JLM, it is a lovely plant what would look great at the bayou border after the popcorn trees are gone. The more I research edible bananas, the tougher their cultivation seems to be!

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I wanted to give the group an update on our lonely Washingtonia robusta/Mexican Fan Palm. It seems to have survived the summer and the initial grading of the lot. The pilings for the foundation are being tomorrow, so if it survives that it may be home free.  This sequence of photos represents about eight months of growth:

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It seems to be growing fast. Do you think I should fertilize it?

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Speaking about found "wild" palms, we recently found a small cycad/sago palm and three relatively large stands of sabal minors. There was also a lone tangerine tree!  The property is about four acres so we are still exploring the nooks and crannies. The sago was covered in weeds but after clearing looks healthy.

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Here's one of the sabal minor stands. They somehow established themselves right beside the Gulf!

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I have some questions about the sabal minors, but will post them in a separate thread.

[JLM]

1 hour ago, jpg said:

Here's one of the sabal minor stands. They somehow established themselves right beside the Gulf!

Oh man, i could only dream that. Just imagine how palmy you can make that beachfront!

Looking back on google maps, theres a large gap between 2013-2022 that they did not go back to your lot. Your property is beautiful! Perfect place for a home and a palmy paradise. I can only imagine how storm surge prone that location is though.

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36 minutes ago, JLM said:

Oh man, i could only dream that. Just imagine how palmy you can make that beachfront!

Looking back on google maps, theres a large gap between 2013-2022 that they did not go back to your lot. Your property is beautiful! Perfect place for a home and a palmy paradise. I can only imagine how storm surge prone that location is though.

We like the beach too! The wave action is normally not too bad because of the protection afforded by a barrier island off the coast. We are going to go all out on the palms and were very happy to find the little sabal minors. Yes, the property is very much prone to storm surges. Many houses along this shore were wiped out by Hurricane Katrina. We are building about 200 feet back from the water. The foundation pilings are 60 feet deep, with the ground floor pilings adding another 10 feet. It looks like the foundation will end up be being 1/3 the total cost of the house!

Overall, we're striving for a look that's open, tropical, and not too inviting to snakes!