Baby Hospitas

[Looking Glass]

I picked up a few 4” Copernicia hospitas from floribunda recently.   I potted then up into a mix of my native alkaline sand, some perlite and wood chips mixed with some manure and soil, and topped them off with shell mulch.   This should make a pretty fast draining and alkaline mix.   They are more like seedlings with really big tap roots right now.   

Anyone have any advice, growth predictions, etc….   If they are going to show blue, how long til it comes up?  I’m told the parent was blue.  I expect these to be very slow, but I had so much fun with the lafazamanga seedlings last year, that I couldn’t resist giving these a go.   I’m hoping to get them into full sun soon, but I’m unsure how fast to progress.  
 

 

I’m still after a bigger specimen for the yard too.  But it will be fun to watch these grow.  

Edited May 14, 2022 by Looking Glass

[quaman58]

I got one from Matt in SD a few years ago, which I think originated from Floribuda. I is slow, but has been a sturdy little palm (maybe a foot tall) and is already getting that waxy blue color. It's got some sharp armor on the petiole as well. Easy peasy so far!

[Looking Glass]

18 minutes ago, quaman58 said:

I got one from Matt in SD a few years ago, which I think originated from Floribuda. I is slow, but has been a sturdy little palm (maybe a foot tall) and is already getting that waxy blue color. It's got some sharp armor on the petiole as well. Easy peasy so far!

Pics! Pics!   Mine are terrifyingly tiny at this stage, but I like the sound of easy.  

[Collectorpalms]

Would Calcium Nitrate every time you water have the nearly the same result as sea shells as a top dressing? What is his technique? 

 

 

[Looking Glass]

18 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Would Calcium Nitrate every time you water have the nearly the same result as sea shells as a top dressing? What is his technique? 

 

 

I don’t know, but I just saw that post too.  Somebody grows some very nice Cuban palms right around the corner ( @greengenes )!   That potting mix looks super gritty and fast draining.  

I always put something on top to keep dirt and fertilizer from blowing around out back.  The pool seems to be the final destination for any loose soil, perlite, or fertilizer nubbins.  

Wood mulch for some, those leftover floribunda lava stones for others, and crushed shell for those that like it drier and alkaline.  Not sure if it’s in anyones secret recipe though.  Sargentii seem to like it alright.  I just happen to have a bag of shells I’ve got to do something with.  

[palmfriend]

Hi, 

I have one in the ground grown from seed, now appr. 5 years old, planted out three years ago and is now significantly gaining size since I took out two other

plants that blocked the sun most of the time. It has now full sun from early morning to late afternoon, soil is alcaline, fertilizing three times a year plus 

the rain water that comes down the road always containing "stuff" from our neighbor's lifestock...

It seems to be strong and sturdy - I am happy with this one.

 

Lars

 

[greengenes]

I generally go with a custom mix of coarse sand, perlite, pine bark, and peat. The place that blends it always adds some dolomite to make up the ph from the peat and pine bark. For the copernicias, I haven't had to add limestone rock like I do with some other species. I haven't tested my water but generally south florida has alkaline water as far as i know. While I do use a well drained mix, some copernicias like gigas and fallaensis appreciate more water. I believe they grow in seasonally flooded areas in Cuba. 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, palmfriend said:

Hi, 

I have one in the ground grown from seed, now appr. 5 years old, planted out three years ago and is now significantly gaining size since I took out two other

plants that blocked the sun most of the time. It has now full sun from early morning to late afternoon, soil is alcaline, fertilizing three times a year plus 

the rain water that comes down the road always containing "stuff" from our neighbor's lifestock...

It seems to be strong and sturdy - I am happy with this one.

 

Lars

 

Nice one you've got there!   So by the look of things, I'm definitely in for a long term relationship with these little buggers.   Livestock "stuff" can make for some pretty happy plants.  I grew up with an ever-growing hill of it from our livestock as a kid.     

 

1 hour ago, greengenes said:

I generally go with a custom mix of coarse sand, perlite, pine bark, and peat. The place that blends it always adds some dolomite to make up the ph from the peat and pine bark. For the copernicias, I haven't had to add limestone rock like I do with some other species. I haven't tested my water but generally south florida has alkaline water as far as i know. While I do use a well drained mix, some copernicias like gigas and fallaensis appreciate more water. I believe they grow in seasonally flooded areas in Cuba. 

Whatever you've put together there, your Cuban palms look pretty happy with the recipe!  Great looking stuff!     

 

[Kaname-kun]

Here's a 7-gal blue hospita I recently bought. It should be put in the ground, but I'm waiting for a cycad to either flush or die, so it's going to stay in its pot for a while even though roots are peeping out the drainage holes . . . .  

[Merlyn]

I bought a bunch of seedlings from NatureGirl, these were ones that had "blue" parents but were not the "super silver" type.  Mine were about the same size as your Floribunda arrivals...and still are about the same size as your Floribunda arrivals.  I've had them in way too much shade, probably no direct sun in the afternoon.  IIRC Charlene's growing area had a bit more sun, so I'm not sure what is "optimal" for them.  Here's a kinda awkward photo of some of mine, after about 10 months in the pots.  It's probably an example of too much water, not enough sun, too many weeds. 

[Kim]

I can't answer any of your questions, but I'm quite taken by the aesthetically pleasing seashell mulch! Very attractive.

Good luck with your beautiful babies! I think of Copernicias as very slow, but also very rewarding in terms of beauty. 

[aztropic]

21 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

Anyone have any advice, growth predictions, etc….   If they are going to show blue, how long til it comes up?  I’m told the parent was blue.  I expect these to be very slow, but I had so much fun with the lafazamanga seedlings last year, that I couldn’t resist giving these a go.   I’m hoping to get them into full sun soon, but I’m unsure how fast to progress.  

 

 

 

They will probably take full sun as soon as they are acclimated to it. Now for the disappointment... It has been my experience that if Copernicia species are going to be blue,they will show it from the very first sprouted leaf. I've grown hospita from seed I picked myself off of very blue parents up to 3 gallon size,and all were a very healthy dark green - but never showed any sign of blue. Probably hybridized...Sold them all as green hospita without ever planting one in my yard. 

On a habitat seed collecting trip to Cuba,I only found 3 good seeds of blue Copernicia yarey,(basically a smaller version of hospita). All 3 sprouted in Arizona,and all 3 were blue from the very first sprout same as a Bismarck. Here is one that I planted in my own yard,now 7 years old from seed...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

[Looking Glass]

57 minutes ago, aztropic said:

They will probably take full sun as soon as they are acclimated to it. Now for the disappointment... It has been my experience that if Copernicia species are going to be blue,they will show it from the very first sprouted leaf. I've grown hospita from seed I picked myself off of very blue parents up to 3 gallon size,and all were a very healthy dark green - but never showed any sign of blue. Probably hybridized...Sold them all as green hospita without ever planting one in my yard. 

On a habitat seed collecting trip to Cuba,I only found 3 good seeds of blue Copernicia yarey,(basically a smaller version of hospita). All 3 sprouted in Arizona,and all 3 were blue from the very first sprout same as a Bismarck. Here is one that I planted in my own yard,now 7 years old from seed...

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

About the blue….  I’m aware based on past research.   I’ve also read that green and blue hospitas grow side by side in Cuba, so it isn’t due to serpentine soil, like some other species.  
Old threads here it’s said that all hospitas are blue, but Palms of Cuba disagrees it seems?   

I asked about this prior to ordering.  So I wasn’t surprised when they showed up.  I figured that it’s a fun little project either way.   Will be interesting to see how they turn out.  Maybe (unlikely) getting them out and into alkaline soil and full sun will bring out the wax, but only time will tell.  Either way it will be fun to see what they become.  

I keep squinting and looking and saying, “ is that a little grey there, or is it just some dust?”  LOL!

I picked them because they are slow and interesting.  Everything in pots here is growing so fast lately. 

It seems baby Copernicia and Coccothrinax are like a box of chocolates…..   If they are hybridized, I hope it’s a cool combo.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by Looking Glass

[Looking Glass]

6 hours ago, Kaname-kun said:

Here's a 7-gal blue hospita I recently bought. It should be put in the ground, but I'm waiting for a cycad to either flush or die, so it's going to stay in its pot for a while even though roots are peeping out the drainage holes . . . .  

So when you said you were going to get a Hospita, you meant you were on 95 southbound, approaching the exit!  Great catch!  I’m still in the market for a bigger one for the ground.  
 

4 hours ago, Kim said:

I can't answer any of your questions, but I'm quite taken by the aesthetically pleasing seashell mulch! Very attractive.

Good luck with your beautiful babies! I think of Copernicias as very slow, but also very rewarding in terms of beauty. 

People use it as topdressing for plantings, walkways, and such around here, so it’s readily available, but can be pokey-pokey if it gets underfoot.  Copernicia are unique beauties.  I have room for 1, maybe 2, of the smaller species here.  

Edited May 15, 2022 by Looking Glass

[sonoranfans]

My experience agrees with scott, blue ones are showing blue as strap leaf palms, an they get more intense as leaves divide.  I bought (3) from redlands nursery, all showed blue as strap leafers and are are more blue now.  Blues ones were fairly common, 4-5 years ago but it seems no so much any more.  I havent seen them at redlands list of available palms for the last couple years.  These are very slow as strap leaf palms, and they are fussy/slow in containers.  Of the (3) I have, all were the same size 4+ years ago and the one has not had a setback has doubled the size of the other two.   Need to be very cafeful planting these into the ground.  They like high drainage wet soil with a slight alkalinity.  Like bismarckia the genetics seem to control wax production so genes are luck of the draw with blue color.  First pic is a strap leafer throwing its first divided leaf in a 4x4x14 nursery pot, secon shows my the most and least blue ones in sun with green palms for contast.

[aztropic]

5 hours ago, Kim said:

I'm quite taken by the aesthetically pleasing seashell mulch! Very attractive.

As an ex Floridian, I remember it being quite common,back in the day. I've even adopted it's use in my Arizona garden, as a tribute to my past. Not sure if there is any nutritional benefit for my Cuban palms, but it definitely starts conversations with my customers here in the desert...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Looking Glass]

28 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

My experience agrees with scott, blue ones are showing blue as strap leaf palms, an they get more intense as leaves divide.  I bought (3) from redlands nursery, all showed blue as strap leafers and are are more blue now.  Blues ones were fairly common, 4-5 years ago but it seems no so much any more…..

….Need to be very cafeful planting these into the ground.  They like high drainage wet soil with a slight alkalinity.  Like bismarckia the genetics seem to control wax production so genes are luck of the draw with blue color.  .

Wow.  Now that’s blue.   They don’t seem to be as common now as they were a few years ago, for sure.   It seems to take a bit of hunting in more out of the way places.   

I’ve got the usual coastal, quick draining, sand based FL soil.  Alkaline except where I modify it.  I don’t keep it super dry, with the grass needing irrigating.  Seems like a decent choice for a Copernicia here…. But I can’t fit any of the super huge varieties, or the ones that like things bone-dry like Ekmanii.  

[JeskiM]

Well, I can only relate to my experience, so here it goes:

In spring 2018 I germinated a bunch of Hospitas from seed. The seed source was RPS. I placed them in a communal pot and most of them germinated.  When they were one year old I pulled them all out of the communal pot and into individual pots. At this time they all had 1 or 2 strap leaves.  It was very clear that some of them were more robust than the others. The more robust ones, since they were larger went into 2-3 gal. pots. The smaller ones went into 1 gal. pots. I only had two fatalities from moving them into their own pots which left with about a dozen plants.

In that Second year of growth the new strap leaves were coming out very blue in color.

All of mine are still in pots. They seem to grow about as fast as my non-trunking Sabals that are in ground.  All the pots are located on the South facing side of my house where it can be brutally hot with some reflected heat off of the house.

I've attached some pics of the two largest specimens, which started the 1st palmate leaves last year (4th growth season).

Also are two pics of the less robust ones that are still in strap leave phase.

These pics don't do the blue coloring justice, it's quite intense. So I would say that you should hopefully see some blue color starting as early as the 2nd strap leaf.

-Matt

[Looking Glass]

4 hours ago, JeskiM said:

 

Your smaller straps are an exact match for the stage mine are at.   Yours are quite blue.  I guess that means they are 3-4 years old perhaps, based on what you describe.  Man, patience if needed for the Carribean stuff.  

Yours are looking excellent by the way. 

[aztropic]

Here's some green hospita offspring,grown from seeds I picked myself off blue trees...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

Edited May 21, 2022 by aztropic

[Looking Glass]

The baby Hybrid-Hospitas did OK over this year.   The tiniest one shriveled up and went to heaven though.   I put the others off to the side on some bags of manure a couple months ago.   Just noticed recently, they root-punctured the plastic bags and grew right into them.    …..the roots on these little sprouts are something else…..

 

Also, @Kaname-kun let me snag these two true-blue hospitas off of him today (Thanks!).  They look great in the evening sun.   Can’t wait to get them in the ground later in the week…..  those roots need room to roam.   

 

 

 

 

[tiburcio]

10 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

The baby Hybrid-Hospitas did OK over this year.   The tiniest one shriveled up and went to heaven though.   I put the others off to the side on some bags of manure a couple months ago.   Just noticed recently, they root-punctured the plastic bags and grew right into them.    …..the roots on these little sprouts are something else…..

 

Also, @Kaname-kun let me snag these two true-blue hospitas off of him today (Thanks!).  They look great in the evening sun.   Can’t wait to get them in the ground later in the week…..  those roots need room to roam.   

 

 

 

 

are these copernicias still growing in your area? or go into dormancy? do you water them sparingly??

[Looking Glass]

3 hours ago, tiburcio said:

are these copernicias still growing in your area? or go into dormancy? do you water them sparingly??

I don’t know about dormancy, but I’ve noticed that Coccothrinax, Pseudophoenix, and likely Copernicia seem to slow down a lot when it cools off.   They really love the heat and sun.  Still, it been in the 80s most days and lows in the 70s at night.  I think we will drift to the high 60s at night later this week, but it doesn't get very cold here.  

Over the summer, I gave the babies a lot of sun, and kept them quite wet.   They are drought tolerant, but crave water when it is hot.  

[Kaname-kun]

Those seedling roots are amazing.  Post photos when you get those larger ones in the ground. They found a great home!

[sonoranfans]

I'd be careful with the roots, they can be sensitive.  I guess this is the best time of the year for sustaining root damage.  They also may turn more green in shade, these are full sun palms and the blue (wax) is an adaptation to hot sun and intermittent dry conditions.  there are green hospita as well. The wax reduces the amount of photosynthetic light( by reflection) that enters the leaf palisade mesophyll, which is where chlorophyll is synthesized  This can prevent excessive heating( by chlorophyll synthesis in the even of a dry spe[[).   Typically on a short term time scale, plants deal with heating by transpiration which permits evaporative cooling.  But there is only so much evaporation can do especially if the plant is low in water.  So on a longer time scale, the palms have adapted to produce wax in high heat/temps.  In the event of low sun the plant may reduce wax production and shed some wax(blue) as needed.

[Merlyn]

Also FYI - I found out the hard way that Copernicia do not like going totally dry.  I had a couple of Baileyana seedlings in 1g pots, and 3 of them went dry in an October heatwave.  One of my nursery area fan sprayers got clogged and didn't cover them.  I noticed about 2 weeks into the drought, but by then they had already started shriveling up.  Once they started there was no stopping the eventual death.  Fortunately I still have 2 from the same batch, they were literally 1 foot to the left and within range of the other fan sprayer, so they were totally fine.

[JubaeaMan138]

4 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Also FYI - I found out the hard way that Copernicia do not like going totally dry.  I had a couple of Baileyana seedlings in 1g pots, and 3 of them went dry in an October heatwave.  One of my nursery area fan sprayers got clogged and didn't cover them.  I noticed about 2 weeks into the drought, but by then they had already started shriveling up.  Once they started there was no stopping the eventual death.  Fortunately I still have 2 from the same batch, they were literally 1 foot to the left and within range of the other fan sprayer, so they were totally fine.

Agree with this 100 percent . Lost a handfull of seedlings to this  this year already. Backed off my watering to much this winter . 

[Kaname-kun]

Ok, you inspired me to plant the 25-gal--pushing my digging and lugging limits--just before the rain last night. 

[Looking Glass]

16 minutes ago, Kaname-kun said:

Ok, you inspired me to plant the 25-gal--pushing my digging and lugging limits--just before the rain last night. 

That’s a beauty for sure!   Really nice.   I’ve been thinking about your place a lot the last few days.  So many nice palms there (Super Tropicals - Tropicals - Cubans).  Makes me think, “I can cram a hell of a lot more stuff here!”  Great collection.  

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Looking Glass said:

  Makes me think, “I can cram a hell of a lot more stuff here!”  Great collection.  

Yeah, I thought I was "done" with about 10 palms, a couple of donated sagos and ponytails from a friend, and a couple of random plantings of Hawaiian Ti, coleus, and philodendrons.  Then I found this forum.  And I added a few more relatively rare ones like Fallaensis and got into cycads from ChuckG.  At one point my wife made the mistake of saying, "The backyard still looks kind of sparse."  Now there's about 450 individual plantings in the backyard.  I blame it on her. 

[Darold Petty]

37 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

  At one point my wife made the mistake of saying, "The backyard still looks kind of sparse."  Now there's about 450 individual plantings in the backyard.  I blame it on her. 

How lucky you are !  When acquiring a new plant most of us must use the phrase  "  What ? That old thing ?  It's been around forever!"    

[Merlyn]

5 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

How lucky you are !  When acquiring a new plant most of us must use the phrase  "  What ? That old thing ?  It's been around forever!"    

Oh yeah, I am not going to let that one go...ever.  I get a new plant and say, "Oh, well you said it looked kind of sparse!"  😛

[palmfriend]

Cool thread with really great images of this species!

Here is the one I posted six months ago...

Here are two pictures taken just days ago...

and

It is not a rocket but you can see the progress - glad to have it.

 

Lars

 

[Looking Glass]

Well, I finally got around to putting the bigger and bluer of the two in the ground today.    The roots are like big carrots, and about as fragile.  I broke some.   Hopefully not too many.   I’m a bit nervous about this one, but we shall see.  The soil there was rich and black before hitting sand about 2 feet down.   

Something tells me these would ideally go into the ground very young….

[Looking Glass]

The little 4 inchers are doing well 1 year out.   Some of the 20 inch roots broke off, but it didn’t seem hurt them too much.   I put them in a saucer to discourage the long roots, but with all the rains, they end up sitting in standing water most of the time now.  Perhaps it mimics Cuba’s seasonally flooded plains, because they seem to enjoy it during this hot season.   I’m going to get them soak for the wet season.  They made progress but are pretty slow.  

 

Despite the root trauma, the two small in-grounders are doing well.   Hope to see some faster growth in the heat and rain….

 

 

Post your Happy Hospita pics if you have any…

[aztropic]

Here's my blue yarey,which is basically a smaller mature form of hospita. Much slower growing in the desert than in Florida,but a steady grower none the less.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Merlyn]

@aztropicI've been wanting to get a Yarey, as I already have Hospita, Gigas, Baileyana and Fallaensis.  I had Hospita as being the smaller of the two, at 8-12' crown diameter and Yarey at 12-15' crown diameter.  Do I have that backwards? 

Edit: nevermind, answered my own question on Palmpedia.  In order of crown diameter it's Yarey, Hospita, Gigas, Baileyana, Fallaensis.  Though from photos it looks like Bailey and Gigas might be similar, so that's maybe a tossup in terms of size.

[aztropic]

10 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@aztropicI've been wanting to get a Yarey, as I already have Hospita, Gigas, Baileyana and Fallaensis.  I had Hospita as being the smaller of the two, at 8-12' crown diameter and Yarey at 12-15' crown diameter.  Do I have that backwards? 

Edit: nevermind, answered my own question on Palmpedia.  In order of crown diameter it's Yarey, Hospita, Gigas, Baileyana, Fallaensis.  Though from photos it looks like Bailey and Gigas might be similar, so that's maybe a tossup in terms of size.

😄I collected the seeds for these blue yareys myself,off wild trees in habitat. (Cuba) Might have been the dry conditions they naturally grow in,but they may have been only 2/3 the size at most,compared to the actual hospitas on a different part of the island. Good species for the smaller residential garden.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Looking Glass]

Well, I up-potted the baby hospitas today.   It was about time.  They grew a bit over summer with the heat and constant rain.  They were sitting in pure mud in standing water most of the summer.   Roots were trailing all over out of the 1g pots….

There are two strongees pulling way ahead, two mediums, and a super-weakling I was going to dispose of….  But I had left over mix.  I planted the strongest up to ?5g and the smaller ones to 3g.  All went into a gritty mix of manure, perlite, sand and fine wood mulch.   

I had to dissect the pots off the roots.  The strong ones held it together.   With the smaller ones, everything just fell apart and they were left bare rooted, but every large root and even most fine roots stayed intact.  Up they carefully went.  Fertilized with long acting granules and topped with a light dressing of crushed limestone this time.  Now they have a bit more room.   I moved them to very intense sun areas out back, for fall-to-spring.   

The in-ground Hospitas are enjoying the heat and sun.  This guy suffered a lot of root trauma with planting, but sits in super heavy all-day sun, and is outgrowing his little brother noticeably (had to increase the circle a bit).  

 

This one gets full sun in a different spot, but a little AM and PM shade, and seems a little slower, but is still doing well….