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Allen

Sabals - prevent cross-pollination technique needed

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Allen

I have several Sabals coming into bloom that I want to prevent cross-pollination on.  S. minor, brazoriensis, birmingham, louisiana.  What method can I use to prevent this?  I see the pollination bags but I can't seem to find big-long ones that will fit these long blooms.  What is the best way here?  Quick lesson here appreciated

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Fusca

I've read where vacuum bags can be used when making hybrids to prevent cross-pollination.  But I don't think you need to worry about it because it seems to be pretty rare in nature for Sabals to hybridize.

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Allen
2 hours ago, Fusca said:

I've read where vacuum bags can be used when making hybrids to prevent cross-pollination.  But I don't think you need to worry about it because it seems to be pretty rare in nature for Sabals to hybridize.

So bees, etc won't cross these Sabal varieties?  S. minor, brazoriensis, birmingham, louisiana.  ?

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Fusca
1 hour ago, Allen said:

So bees, etc won't cross these Sabal varieties?  S. minor, brazoriensis, birmingham, louisiana.  ?

I don't know that for a fact but I have read here on Palmtalk that Sabals don't typically hybridize naturally for whatever reason.  Maybe different flowering times?  I've only heard of one Sabal hybrid (palmetto with causiarum) at the University of Florida campus and for all I know it might have been crossed intentionally.  Maybe it's different among distinct varieties of minor that are flowering at the same time but I haven't heard about this occurring before.

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PalmatierMeg

Hybridization among Sabal species does occur but is not rampant like Phoenix. I've found my various Sabals have staggered flowering times, which give them little chance to hybridize. For example, my Sabal miamiensis x mexicana Leu Garden - itself a rare hybrid - flowered a couple months ago while all my trunking Sabals have yet to flower. My pure Sabal miamiensis is flowering now. The best way to prevent hybridization is to cut off all flower spathes except the one you want to harvest. If they have staggered flowering times, no problem.

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Will

Just put a paper sack around the flower stock and close it with a pin or somethin so its not open on the bottom. At least thats how we prevented corn to cross. 

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Allen

Never got a firm answer so here is what I ended up using.  A 4 foot super lightweight mesh bag found on amazon.

Louisiana is right by another minor and i want to eliminate the cross possibility.  Small bees going on them like crazy

Seed stalks 8-9', palm 6'

sabal2.jpg

sabal1.jpg

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Collectorpalms
14 hours ago, Allen said:

Never got a firm answer so here is what I ended up using.  A 4 foot super lightweight mesh bag found on amazon.

Louisiana is right by another minor and i want to eliminate the cross possibility.  Small bees going on them like crazy

Seed stalks 8-9', palm 6'

sabal2.jpg

sabal1.jpg

Can you give a link. I had another issue. On the night of the blood moon, I had a zillion caterpillars come out in the middle of the night and start eating my seeds. I battled them, and sprayed the hell out of them and killed the majority of them and haven't seen another since. But I don't think I got great pollination on my other sabals, either from the spray or lack of beneficial insects. I still have a few that have not opened...

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Joe NC
8 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I had a zillion caterpillars come out in the middle of the night and start eating my seeds. 

I also have an army of these that eats nearly 100% of the flowers on my trunking Sabals.  They started on my S. mexicana, but have spread to palmetto and now even minors.

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/cabbage-palm-caterpillar-or-palmetto-borer

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/palms/cabbage_palm_caterpillar.htm

I'm not trying to get seeds, but they do make the flowers look terrible and leave them covered in large amounts of caterpillar turds.  The caterpillars pupate within the boots, and use the fibers to build cocoons.  

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Collectorpalms
6 hours ago, Joe NC said:

I also have an army of these that eats nearly 100% of the flowers on my trunking Sabals.  They started on my S. mexicana, but have spread to palmetto and now even minors.

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/cabbage-palm-caterpillar-or-palmetto-borer

https://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/orn/palms/cabbage_palm_caterpillar.htm

I'm not trying to get seeds, but they do make the flowers look terrible and leave them covered in large amounts of caterpillar turds.  The caterpillars pupate within the boots, and use the fibers to build cocoons.  

You nailed that one. They  are the thing of nightmares.  You can just hear the turn fall to know they are feeding. As soon as the daylight broke they were burrowing into the palm fiber before birds can get them. This has only been a recent issue, and I do not know why they have not come back yet...

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