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Triple Trachy Takil


NWpalms@206

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Found what I think will make a really cool palm In a few yrs… a triple trunk trachy takil. A tongue twister. Pretty interesting specimen have not seen another like it. Single seed I believe 

0EA96F40-97A2-4B32-A0E2-CC57622237BA.jpeg

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Time to tease the 'Talk with tales of tongue-twisting Trachycarpus takil triple-trunked-trophies.   Trying to trade for a tiny Trachycarpus tesan tomorrow?  Totally tubular tropical trees, it's true. 

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Cool find. I have three small takils. The last couple of winters have been hard here though. I am hoping for a good growing season. Good luck with them/it.

On 5/9/2022 at 10:49 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Time to tease the 'Talk with tales of tongue-twisting Trachycarpus takil triple-trunked-trophies.   Trying to trade for a tiny Trachycarpus tesan tomorrow?  Totally tubular tropical trees, it's true. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ben OK said:

Cool find. I have three small takils. The last couple of winters have been hard here though. I am hoping for a good growing season. Good luck with them/it.

 

Takil seem to be tender young, but tougher mature? I have no mature takil but the young ones I do have have all experinced a little spear funk this winter. All growing out of it nicely though no pulls. 

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1 hour ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Takil seem to be tender young, but tougher mature? I have no mature takil but the young ones I do have have all experinced a little spear funk this winter. All growing out of it nicely though no pulls. 

You are going to need a lot of full sun for all your palms to put on good growth, how much cleared acreage do you have? Butia queens etc... full day sun. Trachycas need 6-8 mimimum/

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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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6 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

You are going to need a lot of full sun for all your palms to put on good growth, how much cleared acreage do you have? Butia queens etc... full day sun. Trachycas need 6-8 mimimum/

Are you referring to the PNW in regards to sun exposure? Around here the ones that are in full sun don’t look nearly as good as the ones that get afternoon shade. 

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9 minutes ago, RJ said:

Are you referring to the PNW in regards to sun exposure? Around here the ones that are in full sun don’t look nearly as good as the ones that get afternoon shade. 

minerals, sun, water, they will grow faster Butia Syagrus hybrids and for that matter trachyarpus WILL grow faster there, here and in the UK... etc... essential to life. A break in the west sun may be the other difference to how they look.

Watched videos from the UK and the Netherlands,  Same Applies.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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5 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

You are going to need a lot of full sun for all your palms to put on good growth, how much cleared acreage do you have? Butia queens etc... full day sun. Trachycas need 6-8 mimimum/

3acres, 2 of which wide open sky, old growth trees perimeter block winds, south facing house and slightly sloped sandy loam soil. Water drains very quickly to an aquifer below my property that I have a class B well providing our drinking and farming water. I get sun 10+ hrs a day. And I have a 20x20 cement foundation greenhouse. 

EB6B04F7-99F1-451E-8E4D-948F8CC7E1FB.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

minerals, sun, water, they will grow faster Butia Syagrus hybrids and for that matter trachyarpus WILL grow faster there, here and in the UK... etc... essential to life. A break in the west sun may be the other difference to how they look.

Watched videos from the UK and the Netherlands,  Same Applies.

They grow plenty fast, perhaps it’s owner neglect, just driving around here the ones out in full sun just don't look nearly as good as the ones that at least get a break in the afternoon from the heat. YMMV 

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1 minute ago, NWpalms@206 said:

3acres, 2 of which wide open sky, old growth trees perimeter block winds, south facing house and slightly sloped sandy loam soil. Water drains very quickly to an aquifer below my property that I have a class B well providing our drinking and farming water. I get sun 10+ hrs a day. And I have a 20x20 cement foundation greenhouse. 

EB6B04F7-99F1-451E-8E4D-948F8CC7E1FB.jpeg

Get growing! Can wait to see progress reports.

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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1 minute ago, RJ said:

They grow plenty fast, perhaps it’s owner neglect, just driving around here the ones out in full sun just don't look nearly as good as the ones that at least get a break in the afternoon from the heat. YMMV 

Are you in the PNW? Washington, BC, Oregon, Idaho?

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Get growing! Can wait to see progress reports.

Oh I’m on it! I work a lot so my landscaping is slow progress but I’m off a couple weeks gonna get a lot done hopefully. Then be patient. 

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1 hour ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Takil seem to be tender young, but tougher mature? I have no mature takil but the young ones I do have have all experinced a little spear funk this winter. All growing out of it nicely though no pulls. 

I am in a zone 7 with hot summers and at least some snow and ice every year. In my experience here, trachycarpus and needle palms are a lot less hardy when small. I try not to plant them until they are about a 5 gallon size or larger. Even then, they are significantly more likely to take damage during their first winter in the ground.

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25 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

I am in a zone 7 with hot summers and at least some snow and ice every year. In my experience here, trachycarpus and needle palms are a lot less hardy when small. I try not to plant them until they are about a 5 gallon size or larger. Even then, they are significantly more likely to take damage during their first winter in the ground.

I’ve told myself nothing under 15g goes in ground, I can get things to that size in the greenhouse (unheated for now) while still acclimating them somewhat. I just potted up a few 5g to 15g had to restrain from planting. I think a key to success in PNW is size of plant when it’s planted in ground and exposed to its first winter. The 20g Jubaea x Queen is next!

D6FA431E-820B-4999-8FAE-C92D47933B27.jpeg

Edited by NWpalms@206
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1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Are you in the PNW? Washington, BC, Oregon, Idaho?

Nope… SC 

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  • 7 months later...

I've got a small double trunk takil. We are having a cold blast right now so I hope it will make it because even I have experienced them to be pretty tender when young. I think in natural habitat they grow under a lot of canopy before they are tall enough and get full exposure to frost. And I've also noticed even though they are supposed to be hardier than fortunei, in their natural habitat it rarely gets very cold. Another thing I've noticed is, that they seem to be much more drought tolerant than fortunei even in pots.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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15 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

And I've also noticed even though they are supposed to be hardier than fortunei

There is no evidence to support this yet. Anecdotally they seem to be less cold tolerant. 

The main issue is that there are very few actual T takil in cultivation. So many mislabeled palms, so people are reporting on takil hardiness when they don’t actually have one. I’ve finally seen real ones in person and they have a distinct appearance. 
 

I bought a “takil”’from a very well known specialty nursery. It looked right when small but as it gets bigger l now know it’s something else. The nursery owners have also come to the same conclusion in speaking with them. They are so hard to find here in North America. Whatever my palm is I can say it’s less hardy than fortunei as it takes damage some winters. 
 

Good luck with your palm. If it’s small it doesn’t hurt to throw a blanket over it. 

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40 minutes ago, Chester B said:

There is no evidence to support this yet. Anecdotally they seem to be less cold tolerant. 

The main issue is that there are very few actual T takil in cultivation. So many mislabeled palms, so people are reporting on takil hardiness when they don’t actually have one. I’ve finally seen real ones in person and they have a distinct appearance. 
 

I bought a “takil”’from a very well known specialty nursery. It looked right when small but as it gets bigger l now know it’s something else. The nursery owners have also come to the same conclusion in speaking with them. They are so hard to find here in North America. Whatever my palm is I can say it’s less hardy than fortunei as it takes damage some winters. 
 

Good luck with your palm. If it’s small it doesn’t hurt to throw a blanket over it. 

Here in Europe it went like this: "No they are very frost tender" -> "They are as hardy as fortunei" -> "They are not as hardy as fortunei" -> "They are the hardiest of all Trachycarpus" 😂

So if yours is a true takil and mine are too (which I'm almost a 100% sure of), we're both as well seeing that they are more tender. Indeed there is a lack of evidence because they are so rare. And even though they are a bit more common here than in the US, there are no really big takils I know of in a private garden. I think the only people who got big true takils are Gary Gregg and everybody he sold them to. Still there have to be some takils with some size around here in Europe, because when seeds (true ones) first were available a nursery in Germany grew them and they were sold for many years even with some trunk on it. I wanted to buy one when only some were left a couple of years ago, but I didn't have the money...

That being said it's also cool becuase this makes this palm special and curious.
Oh and yup, I covered them up with some old palm leaves, after the first night with -5°C (~25 Fahrenheit). Thank you for the adive though!

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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6 hours ago, Hortulanus said:

Here in Europe it went like this: "No they are very frost tender" -> "They are as hardy as fortunei" -> "They are not as hardy as fortunei" -> "They are the hardiest of all Trachycarpus" 😂

So if yours is a true takil and mine are too (which I'm almost a 100% sure of), we're both as well seeing that they are more tender. Indeed there is a lack of evidence because they are so rare. And even though they are a bit more common here than in the US, there are no really big takils I know of in a private garden. I think the only people who got big true takils are Gary Gregg and everybody he sold them to. Still there have to be some takils with some size around here in Europe, because when seeds (true ones) first were available a nursery in Germany grew them and they were sold for many years even with some trunk on it. I wanted to buy one when only some were left a couple of years ago, but I didn't have the money...

That being said it's also cool becuase this makes this palm special and curious.
Oh and yup, I covered them up with some old palm leaves, after the first night with -5°C (~25 Fahrenheit). Thank you for the adive though!

From my understanding in Europe and the UK you have much better access to different Trachycarpus species so I have no doubt you have the right palm. Here in North America it can be hard to find the different species. We have much more access to all the different Sabal species. 
Last night was my coldest night of the year at -4C. Seems to be cold everywhere right now. 

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11 minutes ago, Chester B said:

From my understanding in Europe and the UK you have much better access to different Trachycarpus species so I have no doubt you have the right palm. Here in North America it can be hard to find the different species. We have much more access to all the different Sabal species. 
Last night was my coldest night of the year at -4C. Seems to be cold everywhere right now. 

Yes. It's the best comparison. Sabals are to North America what Trachycarpus are to Europe. Even though they are not native here they have a great tradition for over a century now.

I even had -8°C for two hours the other day. But what's actually the worst is that the frost is so prolonged.

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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On 12/17/2022 at 8:41 AM, Chester B said:

There is no evidence to support this yet. Anecdotally they seem to be less cold tolerant. 

I have one takil seedling with two strap leaves.  I got the seed from a trusted source.  It has survived two nights unprotected this year with lows of 22F.  I was also surprised when I just checked my collection that I have two T. latisectus out there right next to it.  They look fine.

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On 5/13/2022 at 5:51 PM, RJ said:

Are you referring to the PNW in regards to sun exposure? Around here the ones that are in full sun don’t look nearly as good as the ones that get afternoon shade. 

I agree.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

As it has warmed up I actully see some damaged foliage on at least one of my 5 takils that are planted out. They are still pretty small but on fortuneis the same size, there is no damage at all. I also had another 12 takils in pots next to the wall of the house. The pots freezed completely and I put them inside after noticing. They are not showing any damage (yet). The lowest temperature was -8°C for around two hours. The remaining days of the cold blast it's been getting down to tempertures around -2 to -5 or even -6 Celsius. I even covered them up after 3 days of freezing temperatures. As I've experienced it before they take damage especially when young and they are not as hardy as fortunei. And at this probabaly not even as hardy as princeps. This thread encouraged me once again to follow the current winter conditions in it's natural habitat and something that only realised now is that even though it get's pretty damn cold there they also get quite a warm up at daytime! It looks like because they are growing on the foothills of the Himalaya the cold comes gets down from the higher elevations in the north and at days time the warmth frome the south manages to push the cold back higher up and this every night. So what might be harmful to them is just prolonged frost even if it's just a few degrees bewlow freezing. (At least when they are small.)

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Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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I just checked again today and some of them actually spear pulled. Not a good sign but the spear pull wasn't that deep. I just try to keep them dry and might treat them with hydrogen peroxide. At the same time a small Phoenix canariensis is (still) looking good for now. When small they might be weaker than CIDPs. I will give an update in spring!

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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I have also noticed they are more tender than fortunei young, but luckily my 10 or so 5g ones were in the greenhouse for the recent ice blanket Seattle area got. My two larger (5ft) seem to be pretty unphased though. One had Christmas lights and one was unprotected completely. We’ll see in spring what grows out. Hopefully no damage at that size. Had to spray copper on a T.nanus that I see some funk in the spear. Hoping it doesn’t pull either. 

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Takil was the only Trachy I ever lost to spear rot, it was small/potted but it had just started to really look like a true Takil. Since then I haven’t even looked in the direction of any rare palms, aside from the Wagnerianus I replaced it with.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought part of the rumor or marketing on why takil was more hardy was because in habitat it is found at higher ratios vs fortunei at the higher end or even the highest point of its native elevation range. Though the latitude and ultimate lows trachycarpus sees in his native range is mild compared to where they are Zone pushed. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update to this: All of my small Takils have some type of damage. Every one had spear pull but all to a different extend. Some have more foliar damage others just a light spear pull (not as deep) some rather deep. The ones in pots are just fine. One thing that came back to my mind and that I should mention is that the ones I planted out were the weakest of the batch just to test them. I also noticed on the damaged palms in the ground that size makes a huge difference even though they are all the same age some have thicker bases than others and the ones that start to form just that tiny hint of a trunk are usually the ones that got the least damage. This winter they fared the worst of all the palms I have planted out. Same age P. canariensis and P. theophrastii that were protected with thick mulch and 3 layers of frost fleece fared better WAY BETTER at least for what I can see now before spring hits. I protected the Takils as well but only a bit later. Maybe that already was enough to damage them idk. At seedling size they might not even be a 9a palm. I can imagine that once they form a real trunk they can take temperatures like most Butias would.

Yes it's me Hortulanus 😂

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