Soil

[Ltapia]

Hello guys I’m new 

I live in Albuquerque NM zone 7b the dirt in my yard is sandy dry I bought 2 Trachys 15g roots are coming out of the bottom holes some yellow in some tips but looks healthy any tips to potting in my soil and high dry heat summers any thing helps ?

[GregVirginia7]

58 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Hello guys I’m new 

I live in Albuquerque NM zone 7b the dirt in my yard is sandy dry I bought 2 Trachys 15g roots are coming out of the bottom holes some yellow in some tips but looks healthy any tips to potting in my soil and high dry heat summers any thing helps ?

All soil aside, make sure not to tease the roots when planting…I know they like clay so mine is happy here in NOVA 7a maybe b…not sure how they like sandy soil but they do like water so you may have to pay attention to that given your climate…happy planting…

[Ltapia]

13 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

All soil aside, make sure not to tease the roots when planting…I know they like clay so mine is happy here in NOVA 7a maybe b…not sure how they like sandy soil but they do like water so you may have to pay attention to that given your climate…happy planting…

Thanks I could mix in some more rich clay into it I get from the valley next to the river maybe that will help . Not sure if I should use bag soil too 

[GregVirginia7]

IMHO dirt straight out of the ground is best…amend as you see fit, but the bulk of the backfill should be the dirt it’ll grow in…

[Ltapia]

Anyone else have any tips ?

[Swolte]

I have seen Trachys do well in sand, loam, and clay. In my experience, it is hard to say what they really prefer when it comes to soil. Having said that, I do grow Trachys under different conditions and  the ones in a sandy-organic mounded mix do appear to grow faster. This is by no means a scientific experiment so take that with a huge grain of sand...

One thing that does more reliably predict success is the location. An open location in Full (Texas) sun is not ideal. 

Hope that helps!

[Collectorpalms]

It must be nice to stick things straight into the dirt! I did that with several 5 gallon trachys and were dead within a month of watering them. So now every flower bed I have now is a raised bed, its fire ant heaven. I am looking for the largest load of garden mix for my "New Yard" space to raise it by 2 feet, over 600 sq ft... so a quick estimate is 45 cubic yards/1600 bags of .75 cubic feet of premium soil.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Ltapia]

1 hour ago, Swolte said:

I have seen Trachys do well in sand, loam, and clay. In my experience, it is hard to say what they really prefer when it comes to soil. Having said that, I do grow Trachys under different conditions and  the ones in a sandy-organic mounded mix do appear to grow faster. This is by no means a scientific experiment so take that with a huge grain of sand...

One thing that does more reliably predict success is the location. An open location in Full (Texas) sun is not ideal. 

Hope that helps!

I really appreciate that we got hot dry summers here maybe a partial spot with sun would work thanks !!

[Ltapia]

46 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

It must be nice to stick things straight into the dirt! I did that with several 5 gallon trachys and were dead within a month of watering them. So now every flower bed I have now is a raised bed, its fire ant heaven. I am looking for the largest load of garden mix for my "New Yard" space to raise it by 2 feet, over 600 sq ft... so a quick estimate is 45 cubic yards/1600 bags of .75 cubic feet of premium soil.

Wow what type of soil is in your yard to kill them what zone ?

[Jtee]

34 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

I really appreciate that we got hot dry summers here maybe a partial spot with sun would work thanks !!

Yeah that would probably be better than full sun, especially since the sun pretty much shines all day everyday in ABQ. 
 I did see a windmill that looked pretty good off of Montgomery last summer at a jewelry store. Use to be some raggedy looking ones at a hotel under the Big I. Windmills arnt really a desert plant but give it some water often and it should look good. 

[Ltapia]

That’s

31 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Yeah that would probably be better than full sun, especially since the sun pretty much shines all day everyday in ABQ. 
 I did see a windmill that looked pretty good off of Montgomery last summer at a jewelry store. Use to be some raggedy looking ones at a hotel under the Big I. Windmills arnt really a desert plant but give it some water often and it should look good. 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Ltapia

[Ltapia]

25 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Yeah that would probably be better than full sun, especially since the sun pretty much shines all day everyday in ABQ. 
 I did see a windmill that looked pretty good off of Montgomery last summer at a jewelry store. Use to be some raggedy looking ones at a hotel under the Big I. Windmills arnt really a desert plant but give it some water often and it should look good. 

 

Just now, Ltapia said:

That’s

That’s funny you said that I passed by there today it looked good it sits in the sun all day too . Thanks I’m just curious with our dirt here .

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, Ltapia said:

Wow what type of soil is in your yard to kill them what zone ?

Clay with no sand, silt, rock with a PH of 8 + . It's rock hard but expands and contracts with rain and heat. A lot of foundation issues in my area. Recently just saw cracks in my brick. Zone 8b/9a border. 

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, Ltapia said:

 

That’s funny you said that I passed by there today it looked good it sits in the sun all day too . Thanks I’m just curious with our dirt here .

That looks like very workable soil, just add lots of compost and organic matter.

[Ltapia]

6 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Clay with no sand, silt, rock with a PH of 8 + . It's rock hard but expands and contracts with rain and heat. A lot of foundation issues in my area. Recently just saw cracks in my brick. Zone 8b/9a border. 

Oh ok wow

[RJ]

9 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Clay with no sand, silt, rock with a PH of 8 + . It's rock hard but expands and contracts with rain and heat. A lot of foundation issues in my area. Recently just saw cracks in my brick. Zone 8b/9a border. 

Expansive clay is a bitch. Much of Texas has it. I don’t envy you in this regard, and yes it causes lots of foundation problems. Only way around it is to set peers in the bedrock …

[Fallen Munk]

Here in the PNW they like to be planted in rich clay.  Keep in mind that it rains pretty much all year.  The one planted in straight clay don't yellow over the cold winter rains because it's nutrient rich and they grow like crazy.  Once established, 18" to 24" of new trunk in a year is not unheard of.  I think if you tried that in Texas or New Mexico it would be a tomb for the roots unless you kept soaker hoses on it full time.

[Ltapia]

47 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Here in the PNW they like to be planted in rich clay.  Keep in mind that it rains pretty much all year.  The one planted in straight clay don't yellow over the cold winter rains because it's nutrient rich and they grow like crazy.  Once established, 18" to 24" of new trunk in a year is not unheard of.  I think if you tried that in Texas or New Mexico it would be a tomb for the roots unless you kept soaker hoses on it full time.

You mean planting them in sandy fast draining soil would be bad or me adding better dirt/clay ?

[Fallen Munk]

1 hour ago, Ltapia said:

You mean planting them in sandy fast draining soil would be bad or me adding better dirt/clay ?

I think you need a combination soil.  I grew up in Albuquerque and if I remember correctly it was sandy.  You need to amend it so it's heavier.  It will drain too quickly for trachycarpus.   I'd add some clay and compost to your native sandy soil. 

[Ltapia]

30 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I think you need a combination soil.  I grew up in Albuquerque and if I remember correctly it was sandy.  You need to amend it so it's heavier.  It will drain too quickly for trachycarpus.   I'd add some clay and compost to your native sandy soil. 

That’s exactly what I was looking for when u say clay can I buy it or do u mean soil from like the valley ?

[Fallen Munk]

1 hour ago, Ltapia said:

That’s exactly what I was looking for when u say clay can I buy it or do u mean soil from like the valley ?

You can buy bagged Georgia clay but it's expensive.  Better off finding some to dig locally.  You can probably get away with just getting a heavy compost rich soil mix and amending your native soil.  You need it to hold more water, so avoid mixes with perlite or vermiculite, or sand obviously.

[Ltapia]

Ok

Edited May 4, 2022 by Ltapia

[Ltapia]

13 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

You can buy bagged Georgia clay but it's expensive.  Better off finding some to dig locally.  You can probably get away with just getting a heavy compost rich soil mix and amending your native soil.  You need it to hold more water, so avoid mixes with perlite or vermiculite, or sand obviously.

Ok appreciate it man I was gonna just plant them with MG cactus and palm in the ground but I would of shot myself in the foot ! 

[Collectorpalms]

8 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Ok appreciate it man I was gonna just plant them with MG cactus and palm in the ground but I would of shot myself in the foot ! 

I would never use MG Cactus mix on any palms in an arid or hot environment. It would be Ok for Cycads as they can rot in wet soil, but almost all palms love water. during the growing season. Even Washingtonia Filifera in the desert have oxygenated water running through their roots. Stagnate water however is a big NO, except for Sabals minor types.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[Ltapia]

36 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I would never use MG Cactus mix on any palms in an arid or hot environment. It would be Ok for Cycads as they can rot in wet soil, but almost all palms love water. during the growing season. Even Washingtonia Filifera in the desert have oxygenated water running through their roots. Stagnate water however is a big NO, except for Sabals minor types.

Thanks I actually have some MG cactus mix in my potted Washingtonia Filiferas making me actually think about pulling that soil out and putting different . I was thinking of getting this with a mixture of my local soil down by the river more clay ish and pitting the trachys and possibly now the Mexicans .

[Collectorpalms]

For potted plants if you just have a couple I recommend this product if you can find it local. https://foxfarm.com/product/salamander-soil Its about $18, online is like $40!

[Fallen Munk]

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I would never use MG Cactus mix on any palms in an arid or hot environment. It would be Ok for Cycads as they can rot in wet soil, but almost all palms love water. during the growing season. Even Washingtonia Filifera in the desert have oxygenated water running through their roots. Stagnate water however is a big NO, except for Sabals minor types.

Agree.  Trachycarpus like water.  They'd dessicate in no time in dry soil in the desert.  I'm not even sure I'd grow Trachycarpus there in the first place.  I've never seen them look very healthy in the desert.  Albuquerque is a weird climate for them, so different from the native China weather that they are used to.

[Collectorpalms]

5 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Agree.  Trachycarpus like water.  They'd dessicate in no time in dry soil in the desert.  I'm not even sure I'd grow Trachycarpus there in the first place.  I've never seen them look very healthy in the desert.  Albuquerque is a weird climate for them, so different from the native China weather that they are used to.

Right there along the Rio Grande River is a low water table. I think the first Filifera that are posted online are growing very close to it. I imagine their roots can tap into, I am not sure trachy roots are vigorous since its not their normal environment to search for water.... However, Some of the oldest tallest in Texas are growing along the Riverwalk in San Antonio....

[Ltapia]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

For potted plants if you just have a couple I recommend this product if you can find it local. https://foxfarm.com/product/salamander-soil Its about $18, online is like $40!

Nice I’m gonna have to get some would you recommend this for the Mexican fan palm in pots and the Trachys going in ground ?

[Ltapia]

1 hour ago, Fallen Munk said:

Agree.  Trachycarpus like water.  They'd dessicate in no time in dry soil in the desert.  I'm not even sure I'd grow Trachycarpus there in the first place.  I've never seen them look very healthy in the desert.  Albuquerque is a weird climate for them, so different from the native China weather that they are used to.

Lol I seen a couple good ones lol must have kept up on them lots of water .. But I already bought them I think they will be good if I care for them . Hopefully 

[jwitt]

Quick tip for growing a trachy in sandy NM(Rio Rancho).  Pic is from April 6 after a 7f winter low. Never protected, (-10f in 2011).

It gets it water from the lawn(there is a 18" buried concrete curb dividing the lawn from the yard. I put coffee grounds(from my Keurig) at the palm base(lowers ph).  It has bloomed the last 3 years and got seed that I harvested in April.

That's all I add to the soil. I do not water it other that natural and lawn.

I do not think a trachy would survive here without supplemental water.  

Plant now or wait til mid/late July.  They kind of go dormant mid summer 

It is full sun. I do use a broom to knock of snow in the winter after a 2" or more snow .

I make clay for some other plants by adding cat litter(unscented) to our soil. 

Welcome to palmtalk.

First pic is 4/6

Second pic is Feb 10, 2 days after 7f.  Rarely burns, except this year.

Edited May 5, 2022 by jwitt
Added pic

[Ltapia]

6 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Quick tip for growing a trachy in sandy NM(Rio Rancho).  Pic is from April 6 after a 7f winter low. Never protected, (-10f in 2011).

It gets it water from the lawn(there is a 18" buried concrete curb dividing the lawn from the yard. I put coffee grounds(from my Keurig) at the palm base(lowers ph).  It has bloomed the last 3 years and got seed that I harvested in April.

That's all I add to the soil. I do not water it other that natural and lawn.

I do not think a trachy would survive here without supplemental water.  

Plant now or wait til mid/late July.  They kind of go dormant mid summer 

It is full sun. I do use a broom to knock of snow in the winter after a 2" or more snow .

I make clay for some other plants by adding cat litter(unscented) to our soil. 

Welcome to palmtalk.

Wow I appreciate the tip I’m close to Rio Rancho  as well good to see one planted , so you planted straight into tho ground without adding anything too it . I also have two Mexican fan palms and I recently got a Mediterranean fan palm too all in pots right now .

[jwitt]

Straight into the sand. 

Seen all robustas end up dying here. You want fififera or hybrid.

Got a med that survived 2011. Currently blooming.  It is against a south wall 

3/21

Edited May 5, 2022 by jwitt

[Ltapia]

4 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Straight into the sand. 

Seen all robustas end up dying here 

Got a med that survived 2011. Currently blooming.  It is against a south wall 

3/21

Wow so the med is still alive ? Do you winter protect any of your palms ?

[jwitt]

 

Still alive! In fact, it was planted on my northside when it survived -10f.  It saw 0f the next winter and I moved it to the southside in 2013. It is a somewhat slow grower.  I do not protect any of my palms.  

No protection, other than the rocks you see. Mass=hint.  Solar is our key!

[Ltapia]

9 minutes ago, jwitt said:

 

Still alive! In fact, it was planted on my northside when it survived -10f.  It saw 0f the next winter and I moved it to the southside in 2013. It is a somewhat slow grower.  I do not protect any of my palms.  

No protection, other than the rocks you see. Mass=hint.  Solar is our key!

Wow I was debating on planting the med and the Mexican fans .. rocks for protection huh.

How is your robusta?

[jwitt]

6 minutes ago, Ltapia said:

Wow I was debating on planting the med and the Mexican fans .. rocks for protection huh.

How is your robusta?

No robusta, those are filifera.  Grown from hand picked seed.

The larger rocks near a small palm in full sun will release heat at night here.

Med palms need a good siting here in my opinion(against a wall or such) to gain mass. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by jwitt

[Ltapia]

3 minutes ago, jwitt said:

No robusta, those are filifera.  Grown from hand picked seed.

The larger rocks near a small palm in full sun will release heat at night here.

Oh wow thanks for the tip on that now I’m paranoid about my robustas lol

[jwitt]

Just now, Ltapia said:

Oh wow thanks for the tip on that now I’m paranoid about my robustas lol

I've seen robusta grow 3-5 years here unprotected. They die.  Seen some protected ones persist longer, but all eventually died.  I have never attempted robusta myself. 

Nothing wrong with protection.  For me, palm selection(hardiness/variety) and siting gives me ease of mind and allows me to sleep. 

I've killed more than I got.  

Way more!

[Collectorpalms]

3 hours ago, Ltapia said:

Nice I’m gonna have to get some would you recommend this for the Mexican fan palm in pots and the Trachys going in ground ?

You can mix it with the compost and your native soil.. There is beneficial fungi in it. 

The old adage I learned buy a $5 tree and dig a $50 hole. You will be rewarded. Not buy a $50 tree and put it in a $5 hole. 

Example I planted a row of Oaks. I started off really well with nice big holes, but by the time I was done I was so wore out that I had tiny hole. 20 years later, you can tell in the growth of the trees,

Plant now, they will languish in pots over summer. They will do better in the ground, you still might have a month or two of coolish nights Trachycarpus roots can get establish... As for Washingtonias, well be prepared to protect those every year if you plant them for sure. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Collectorpalms