Is this Royal going to make it?

[Breaktheory]

Hello…

Of the 2 royals I put in last week, 1 was sun acclimated and it has grown about 4 inches and kept most fronds.
 

This one has had pretty much all fronds turn brown and limp and has only grows maybe 1/8” (I’m measuring spear to leaf) I’ve been watering daily, does this have a chance?

 

pix of both the good and bad for comparison

 

thanks

Jon

Edited April 26, 2022 by Breaktheory
add pics

[palmsOrl]

Water the heck out of it going forward and your royal should make it in Los Angeles.

-Michael

[Breaktheory]

Just now, palmsOrl said:

Water the heck out of it going forward and your royal should make it in Los Angeles.

-Michael

I’ve been hand watering both daily - do these guys snap back?

[palmsOrl]

How cold did your location get this past winter?

-Michael

[Breaktheory]

9 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

How cold did your location get this past winter?

-Michael

This was just planted last week

[aztropic]

12 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

I’ve been hand watering both daily - do these guys snap back?

Old fronds won't change,but new fronds will be acclimated. There is a lot of energy stored in the roots and trunk to push new fronds. The tree doesn't want to die. There is no reason it won't start pushing new fronds with warmer weather upon us.Plenty of water every 2 or 3 days...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

[palmsOrl]

I agree with aztropic, the crownshaft and petioles look good, so just water, water, water and be glad you are going into summer.

-Michael

[Billeb]

I planted a huge 15G last year and watered, watered, watered. It slowly declined and wasn’t moving at all. I ended up digging it and the roots were all rotted and super stinky. I went back to the place I got it and he said he had a few out of 50 that did the same thing. I guess I was lucky.  Gave me credit & I got an Encephalartos Lehmanii which is doing awesome! (Huge fan ) It was for the best…..I’m not a huge fan of one being in that area anyway. 
 

The point is….sometimes it’s just out of your hands. I did nothing wrong and it died. Just keep doing what you are doing. Most likely it will be fine. 
 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

49 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Old fronds won't change,but new fronds will be acclimated. There is a lot of energy stored in the roots and trunk to push new fronds. The tree doesn't want to die. There is no reason it won't start pushing new fronds with warmer weather upon us.Plenty of water every 2 or 3 days...

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

I’ve been doing daily slow streams for 15 mins at the base of the tree - is this about right but now spaced out 2-3 days?

[aztropic]

19 minutes ago, Breaktheory said:

I’ve been doing daily slow streams for 15 mins at the base of the tree - is this about right but now spaced out 2-3 days?

Base of the tree correct but, I'd go a little longer than 15 minutes - the 2-3 day timeframe is right though. Put your trickling hose into a 1 gallon jug and figure out how long it takes to fill it. Time to fill a 1 gallon jug,times 30,will give you a 30 gallon application rate that should be applied every 3 days.I've grown hundreds of Cuban Royals for sale in Arizona,and am extremely familiar with what it takes to make this species survive. They LOVE water,and you probably could never over water a royal.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

Edited April 26, 2022 by aztropic

[palmsOrl]

50 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Base of the tree correct but, I'd go a little longer than 15 minutes - the 2-3 day timeframe is right though. Put your trickling hose into a 1 gallon jug and figure out how long it takes to fill it. Time to fill a 1 gallon jug,times 30,will give you a 30 gallon application rate that should be applied every 3 days.I've grown hundreds of Cuban Royals for sale in Arizona,and am extremely familiar with what it takes to make this species survive. They LOVE water,and you probably could never over water a royal.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

This^^^^

-Michael

[Breaktheory]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

Base of the tree correct but, I'd go a little longer than 15 minutes - the 2-3 day timeframe is right though. Put your trickling hose into a 1 gallon jug and figure out how long it takes to fill it. Time to fill a 1 gallon jug,times 30,will give you a 30 gallon application rate that should be applied every 3 days.I've grown hundreds of Cuban Royals for sale in Arizona,and am extremely familiar with what it takes to make this species survive. They LOVE water,and you probably could never over water a royal.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

That’s a lot of Royals! It’s concerning because everything I’ve planted this year is doing well - this tree didn’t seem in great shape when it showed up but it’s worse now.

[aztropic]

Gotta have faith in the people you buy from... The palms I sell are planted and transplanted (up potted) to larger pots a MINIMUM of 1 year. I don't want any future owner of MY palms to fail. If I can grow it,you should be able to too,with minimal effort. I always give specific advice,with every palm I sell. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

[Breaktheory]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

Gotta have faith in the people you buy from... The palms I sell are planted and transplanted (up potted) to larger pots a MINIMUM of 1 year. I don't want any future owner of MY palms to fail. If I can grow it,you should be able to too,with minimal effort. I always give specific advice,with every palm I sell. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

Unfortunately the nursery is not backing up their tree and has offered a discount on a new one if this doesn’t last 2 years.

[Breaktheory]

@aztropic 2 questions for you…

 

-Should I add any fertilizer or just continue the heavy watering?

-How long will it take to snap back to the point of normal Spear growth - my other Royal has already put out 6” in under 2 weeks!

 

[D Palm]

It will focus on root growth if it has been recently planted. Liquid fertilome root stimulator will help it achieve that goal faster and move on to frond growth. Water it more.

[Breaktheory]

Update on this one…been watering 20-30 gallons (30 min slow hose flow)every 3 days into a 24” ring to make sure no water escapes from the root zone - this is in addition to standard hose spray watering for the surrounding area. 
 

All fronds are now looking dead and brown - the only green frond is the one slowly emerging but it’s only moved less than half an inch in 2 weeks and starting to go limp and get tip burns.

I was hoping the new frond would come out fresh but if that dies there will be no green on the tree

 

 

 

[Billeb]

1 hour ago, Breaktheory said:

…but it’s only moved less than half an inch in 2 weeks and starting to go limp…

 

On 4/26/2022 at 2:49 PM, Breaktheory said:

…..and has only grows maybe 1/8” (I’m measuring spear to leaf)…

How are you measuring this again? Above is from your earlier post. Not sure it will be much different but all the people I know typically just put a sharpie mark on the emerging spear so the visual growth is very easy to determine. Much much easier to see growth rather than measuring how I believe you are doing. See my Kentiopsis Oliviformis below and note the black mark on the emerging spear. 

That being said……it doesn’t look too good. But don’t give up on it. A couple weeks is nothing. I just yanked out a Burretiokentia that was stalled and I waited nearly 1yr.  It took me a while to learn but this palm tree game isn’t for the type that need instant gratification.  It’s a long game unfortunately. 
 

-dale
 

[Breaktheory]

I’m doing the sharpie method but my estimations are based on looking 11 feet up to see how far separated the line has become - any way you cut it, the line has not moved much at all.

I don’t know if this could mean anything but the guy delivering it dropped the tree on the truck tail gate hard, scraping the trunk - is it possible this trauma could be causing the tree to decline?

[aztropic]

No. Palms are monocots that don't have any cambium layer to injure. Think of the palm trunk as you see it as 1000 little individual palm trunks inside. If a few get damaged around the edges,there are still hundreds of trunks left to do the job.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

[aztropic]

Here's a picture of a palm at an apartment complex I used to live at in Florida. It was nearly killed in the 1989 deep freeze,yet is still alive 33 years later,albeit with major trunk damage...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Edited May 1, 2022 by aztropic

[3 Milesfrom Gulf of Mexico]

Try throwing a few bags of mulch around those Royals.  Mulch, Mulch and more Mulch has worked for my palms.  

[Breaktheory]

3 hours ago, 3 Milesfrom Gulf of Mexico said:

Try throwing a few bags of mulch around those Royals.  Mulch, Mulch and more Mulch has worked for my palms.  

I have about 2 feet of Gromulch around the base now

[Breaktheory]

Captains log May 6:

leaves are all fried and emerging frond is starting to yellow and burn.

Nursery owner (Cambridge Pines) assures me all is well since center of tree is green (what else is he gonna say?) and suggested a cup of Palmgain mixed into a 3 foot circle surrounding the tree.

On the plus side, the growth rate has really increased - it’s moving about a 1/4” to 1/2” inch a day now. First 2 weeks it hadn’t even hit an inch.

Still deep watering every 3 days for about 30 gallons.  Hose trickle contained to root base inside mulch circle.

The trunk is starting to peel revealing an inner layer of green which I assume is a good thing?

 

[awkonradi]

How has your weather been?  I am not an expert, but I think 30 gallons every three days be on the low side.  That palm is on a slight hill, and I think it would be almost impossible to over water it in warm weather.

[JohnAndSancho]

It'll look great in a few months. 

[Breaktheory]

1 hour ago, awkonradi said:

How has your weather been?  I am not an expert, but I think 30 gallons every three days be on the low side.  That palm is on a slight hill, and I think it would be almost impossible to over water it in warm weather.

It’s been in the high 70s to low 80s….it is on a hill but I have a 3 foot mulch ring around it that does a good job confining the water to the root zone with no spillage. I can definitely up the water but since the soil is clay and not very well draining I didn’t want to create a swamp overwatering.

[Billeb]

10 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Nursery owner (Cambridge Pines) assures me all is well since center of tree is green (what else is he gonna say?)

On the plus side, the growth rate has really increased - it’s moving about a 1/4” to 1/2” inch a day now. First 2 weeks it hadn’t even hit an inch.

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve been buying stuff from Ed for years. I have quite a few trees in my current garden from him. If the tree ends up turning for the worst….he’ll take care of you. 
 

Good news on the movement. that’s definitely a good sign.  try not to focus on the outer fronds. If the middle is growing and looks ok….your good. 

-dale

[Breaktheory]

8 minutes ago, Billeb said:

I’ve been buying stuff from Ed for years. I have quite a few trees in my current garden from him. If the tree ends up turning for the worst….he’ll take care of you. 
 

Good news on the movement. that’s definitely a good sign.  try not to focus on the outer fronds. If the middle is growing and looks ok….your good. 

-dale

Thanks Dale - It seems like a nice nursery and he’s trying to be helpful so I’m holding out hope…I’m just hoping that new frond doesn’t fry

 

[8BPalms]

Maybe root damage was excessive when it got transplanted? I wouldn't fertilize hardy at all for a few months if it was indeed root damage stressed. Did you try and fertilize like right after you planted it? Maybe fertilizer pH was off or it was too strong.. too many salts? Idk. I'd just mulch it with plain real mulch, nothing added.. pine bark seems to be the best for me, cheapest too so you can buy more and mulch more.. keep it moist for sure too

[Breaktheory]

46 minutes ago, 8BPalms said:

Maybe root damage was excessive when it got transplanted? I wouldn't fertilize hardy at all for a few months if it was indeed root damage stressed. Did you try and fertilize like right after you planted it? Maybe fertilizer pH was off or it was too strong.. too many salts? Idk. I'd just mulch it with plain real mulch, nothing added.. pine bark seems to be the best for me, cheapest too so you can buy more and mulch more.. keep it moist for sure too

Could be root damage, I’m not sure what’s going on although I can tell you it was heavily shaded at the nursery and is now in full on all day sun - 

I didn’t fertilize at all when planting…planted with a 50/50 mix of Kellog’s and native in a hole double the rootball size and 10” deeper to make up for my clay rocky soil.

I only just now fertilized at the suggestion of the nursery that sold me the palm. This is 3 and a half weeks after planting.

I’ve been using Gromulch since it has compost in addition to the wood in a mulch circle but I’m open to trying anything at this point.

[Johnny Palmseed]

3 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Could be root damage, I’m not sure what’s going on although I can tell you it was heavily shaded at the nursery and is now in full on all day sun - 

I didn’t fertilize at all when planting…planted with a 50/50 mix of Kellog’s and native in a hole double the rootball size and 10” deeper to make up for my clay rocky soil.

I only just now fertilized at the suggestion of the nursery that sold me the palm. This is 3 and a half weeks after planting.

I’ve been using Gromulch since it has compost in addition to the wood in a mulch circle but I’m open to trying anything at this point.

Heavily shaded straight to full sun? That’s most likely the problem right there. It’s not used to that. The thing is almost guaranteed to fry. And it’s freshly planted so it doesn’t have an extensive root structure. It will most likely be expending it’s energy to form roots. If it were already established and went from shade to sun, like when a tall tree is removed, it would simply push out new growth to replace the burned up stuff. It’s trying to fight 2 battles at the same time. I would say you have a 50:50 chance. Keep watering and it might pull through. But I can tell you from experience that when I planted a similar sized royal from a 25 gallon container, it took a very long time to see any top growth. It spent several months forming roots before I saw any movement up top. 

[Breaktheory]

4 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

Heavily shaded straight to full sun? That’s most likely the problem right there. It’s not used to that. The thing is almost guaranteed to fry. And it’s freshly planted so it doesn’t have an extensive root structure. It will most likely be expending it’s energy to form roots. If it were already established and went from shade to sun, like when a tall tree is removed, it would simply push out new growth to replace the burned up stuff. It’s trying to fight 2 battles at the same time. I would say you have a 50:50 chance. Keep watering and it might pull through. But I can tell you from experience that when I planted a similar sized royal from a 25 gallon container, it took a very long time to see any top growth. It spent several months forming roots before I saw any movement up top. 

Thanks Johnny…it has severe sunburn for sure you can see that even the trunk is browning and peeling.

It’s strange that it’s picking up top speed though but probably not great since the frond is frying as it emerges.

At what point do you call it quits and pull the tree before it falls over?

[Billeb]

2 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

……It’s strange that it’s picking up top speed though but probably not great since the frond is frying as it emerges.

At what point do you call it quits and pull the tree before it falls over?

If there’s movement, there’s no concern for calling it quits yet. Let it ride. I wouldn’t change anything. 
 

-dale

[Looking Glass]

It’s going to look terrible for a year.  The neighbors are all going to gawk at it and you might feel a little embarrassed.  Keep caring for it, and be patient.  I bet in a year-to-18 months, you’ll be looking at a good looking Palm.  I’d get a water wand and hose, and make sure you’re drenching that original rootball well.  If you’re watering 2 feet away, it might not be hitting those roots if your bowl isn’t backfilling well. 

[96720]

It is absolutely normal for the fronds to brown and split that’s how it gets rid of old fronds. The bad thing as others have noted is going from shade to full sun you can expect those fronds to burn but as long as the spear is green it should be ok. I know how impatient it gets when you want instance success but royals are extremely tough palms!!

[DoomsDave]

@Breaktheory keep us apprised brotha.

 

[DoomsDave]

3 hours ago, 96720 said:

It is absolutely normal for the fronds to brown and split that’s how it gets rid of old fronds. The bad thing as others have noted is going from shade to full sun you can expect those fronds to burn but as long as the spear is green it should be ok. I know how impatient it gets when you want instance success but royals are extremely tough palms!!

Yeah, but not like that.

Bummed! 

[Breaktheory]

2 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Yeah, but not like that.

Bummed! 

!

[Johnny Palmseed]

21 hours ago, Breaktheory said:

Thanks Johnny…it has severe sunburn for sure you can see that even the trunk is browning and peeling.

It’s strange that it’s picking up top speed though but probably not great since the frond is frying as it emerges.

At what point do you call it quits and pull the tree before it falls over?

It won’t fall over even if it dies. At least, not before your HOA would demand it’s removal. You would know if it’s gone if there’s no top growth and everything’s brown. Keep the water on it and hope for the best. If you can mist the leaves, it might help too.