Open real estate

[Billy]

So the other day I could hear the sound of a chainsaw nearby so I went to investigate. Fortunately it was the neighbors removing a big tree that casted a bit of shade on our backyard and of course was dumping a bunch of leaves all over my ginger and into the center cups of my bromeliads(all of which I moved). Now that it’s completely gone it’s time for me to make a move. I’ll eventually landscape that whole planter but first order of business is putting up a big statement palm to create some privacy. Of course the first palm that comes to mind is Dypsis prestoniana but it would be pricey to plant out a 20 gallon and it would take quite a while to get privacy from a smaller size. I started thinking of more common palms and Bismarckia came to mind. As this area will now see a lot more direct sun I think that a Bismarckia would go well there, my only hesitation is that I’m a little scared of how massive they get. Any suggestions for a fast growing palm (other than kings and queens) that will claim that area before the neighbors get any ideas of doing another silly planting? 

[Tracy]

20 minutes ago, Billy said:

I’ll eventually landscape that whole planter but first order of business is putting up a big statement palm to create some privacy.

Billy, I assume this is going in the elevated planter, correct?  A Bismarckia would definitely give you a wide spread with a good deal of privacy, but would be pretty darn massive for that upper planter.  I'm guessing this is in the back on the south side of the lot as opposed to the far west side of the lot?  Fast growing alternatives to Archontophoenix, my first thought is Dypsis leptocheilos but it wouldn't give a lot of privacy once it got above the fence line, but would do a decent job while still a little lower.  If you want this to do screening, clumping Dypsis species are a good bet in our climate.  Going in a little different direction, you can probably find some decent size Pritchardia that would be smaller in foot print than the Bismarckia yet still provide some screening for quite a while.  Some of the Pritchardia will grow pretty fast too.  A bit slower but a spectacular palm for our area would be Sabal mauritiformis, which is my personal favorite of the Sabal genus.  Even a smaller one would look spectacular planted up in that planter with the contrasting colors of the tops and bottoms of the leaves.   Those are just a few thoughts to mull over.  I do like getting into the non-pinnate palms to mix things up if you aren't already growing many palmate or costapalmate palms. 

[Kim]

Will Dypsis cabadae grow in your area? Beautiful clumper. 

[DoomsDave]

@Billy I concur with @Kim and suggest a clumper Dypsis, like baronii, lutescens, onilahensis or cabadae. Or, if you wanna really block the view, Rhapis humilis, Chamadorea costaricana, and so many others.

Phoenix reclinata is too big, I think, though it's thorny, if you're feeling spiteful . . . . 

[iDesign]

Somewhat controversial suggestion, but what about Caryota mitis?

They look messy if you just let them grow wild, but can look stunning (and provide great privacy) if you're willing to do the maintenance. Here's a thread that has photos of some particularly nice mitis...

Alternatively, I also vote for a clumping dypsis. I know Lutescens gets some hate on the forum (esp from Floridians), but I like that the orange color breaks things up a bit.  When well-kept they can be quite attractive.

Rhapis would also be great for screening (and provide some variety).

Either way, you absolutely need a D. leptocheilos if you don't have one yet!!! Just not sure that's the spot 

My two cents...

[Palm Tree Jim]

Perhaps Dypsis heteromorpha would work for you. It's a clumping dypsis that grows at decent rate, has some crownshaft color and has been grown very successfully in San Diego county. 

Also, Dypsis lafamazanga is another option.

 

Jim.

[Little Tex]

Wodyetia bifurcata

[Tracy]

Another species alternative not mentioned when others have brought up clumping Dypsis are the Vonitra clan.  I acquired this as Dypsis crinita, but it could be D fibrosa.  While you will see the obligatory Dypsis onilahensis, lanceolata, lutescens & pembana in many Southern California gardens, it is far less common to see these Vonitra species.  Maybe some people like the clean trunk look?  I like the other species and am growing them, but these have a pretty cool look too.  Added bonus is the colorful emergent leaves.  The density is a plus if you want some screening above the fence line.  I like the D heteromorpha for this application too.

[PalmatierMeg]

Maybe a solitary Dypsis pembana. An awesome fast-growing species.

[iDesign]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Maybe a solitary Dypsis pembana. An awesome fast-growing species.

I was thinking perhaps D. pembana as well (or possibly the similar-looking but not as tall D. lanceolata). Any reason you're suggesting a solitary one?

Curious since I was planning to put two pembanas somewhat near each other in one of my areas that need screening.

[msporty]

I would head over with a six-pack of beer in hand and make friends. Let them know you love plants and explain how messy the tree was and how it hindered your landscaping dreams. You could invite them to a palm meeting or give them a tour of local homes with great landscaping (e.g. Tracy). There are plenty of neighborhoods that have become palm-rich gardens inspired by a gregarious palm lover!

 

It is too easy to go to Moon Valley and buy some 24" boxed non-fruiting olive or Palo Verde 'Desert Museum' and win the war in a weekend.

 

Given the opportunity, I would recommend getting a clumping Dypsis (upright or weeping oni, cabadae, or lanceolata). A great non-palm idea would be Ficus dammaropsis or auriculata.

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, msporty said:

You could invite them to a palm meeting or give them a tour of local homes with great landscaping (e.g. Tracy). There are plenty of neighborhoods that have become palm-rich gardens inspired by a gregarious palm lover!

It is too easy to go to Moon Valley and buy some 24" boxed non-fruiting olive or Palo Verde 'Desert Museum' and win the war in a weekend.

Given the opportunity, I would recommend getting a clumping Dypsis (upright or weeping oni, cabadae, or lanceolata). A great non-palm idea would be Ficus dammaropsis or auriculata.

Good suggestion.  I'm not sure if this is next door or behind Billy, but if it is on the cul-de-sac behind him, then there is a home right across the street from his neighbor that has a large Jubea out front and other beautiful palms along the side and in the back yard.  Even if it is next door, the house pictured below is in the same little infill development as his neighbor.  So one doesn't have to walk far to find fellow palm junkies.  Another former Palm Society member and nurseryman, Horace Anderson, lived about a few houses away before he passed.  The house still has some of his spectacular collection of plants & palms too.

The real decision point is how much Billy wants the planting to be a focal piece versus a screening focal piece.  That will make the decision between a solitary palm and clumping species a lot easier.

1 hour ago, iDesign said:

Curious since I was planning to put two pembanas somewhat near each other in one of my areas that need screening.

Others may disagree, but if your focus is on screening, Dypsis pembana doesn't seem to produce as many trunks here in California as some of the other clumping Dypsis.  Two solitary won't give a lot of screening either.  Unless you find a large specimen, I don't know how one determines that a solitary will remain solitary.  I have them growing in 5 spots, with varying results of density with 1 to 6 trunks, all planted from 5 to 7 gallon size originally.

[Billy]

I definitely agree that it would be a great idea to grab a six pack of beer and head over to the neighbors to have a chat about how I'd like to plant a beautiful palm in my elevated planter that will provide us both some privacy. As far as the selection for the first palm that will be planted, I know it will for sure be a fan palm to contrast the nearby howea fosteriana, mt.lewis kings, D. lutescens and B. alfredii. I was initially thinking Bismarckia but now after seeing Tracy's beautiful Pritchardias I'm starting to lean more towards a P.hillebrandii or P. aylmer-robinsonii. Which ever one I end up choosing, I'm hoping for a nice 15 or 20g...we shall see. I'll definitely post photos of the new plantings when the time comes. 

[Billy]

Forgot to mention...the house is in the cul-de-sac around the corner and that is a good point that you make, Tracy, they would have a view looking straight across at their neighbor's massive Jubaea chilensis and Bismarckia. That house has some pretty impressive palms for only being there since 2010 er so, I don't remember exactly but I suppose they must have bought those palms at a pretty decent size because they're massive now. The side yard has a nice Chambeyronia and Rhopalostylis behind the Bismarckia...pretty cool stuff. 

[Billy]

So after what feels like a 3 year hiatus, here we are again. I finally got around to throwing something in the ground. I landed on this little 15g Bismarckia. Although it will be quite some time before this palm serves it’s purpose and blocks out the neighbor’s window, I had to get started. In fact, now that this palm is in the ground it’s encouraging me to plant more. Next up…perhaps a few Chambeyronias to contrast the silver blue of the Bismarckia with some red. We shall see, time will tell but for now I had to start somewhere…

[Billy]

Forgot the photo…

[Billy]

The ginger sprouts that are trying to come back in the corner will be removed for future palm plantings 

[Tracy]

18 hours ago, Billy said:

Forgot the photo…

As you consider what else you want to plant nearby, I will share a pair of photos from a couple of years ago of the one I have in Carlsbad and what happens to adjacent palms.  You can see in the first photo how the Dypsis lanceolata trunks are all pushed to the left (west of the Bismarckia).  The second photo shows the one remaining trunk of my Dypsis lanceolata planted to the Bismarckia's east, which was getting bent.  The last time I was there I pulled off some of the now dead lower leaves of the Bismarckia so it wasn't pressing on the D lanceolata, and it seemed to be ok, but I haven't been over in the backyard since winter.  Just be aware that the weight and rigidity of the Bismarckia leaves will win against most other palms planted too close.

[Billeb]

@Tracy I remember another thread you talked about how close Bismarckia can be planted to adjacent walls and other trees. Before reading that thread I planted an Archontophoenix Tuckeri fairly close (approx 4ft) from my Bismarckia with the hopes that it would eventually grow over the Bismarckia and kinda push thru the fronds to unobstructed skies. Currently…..my Bismarckia is growing like crazy but the Tuckeri is definitely gaining steam. I’m hoping my vision will come to fruition or the Tuckeri may end up looking like your Lanceolata. Only time will tell. I’ll post pictures when I get back in town to show my 1yr growth of the blue specimen. 
 

-dale

[Tracy]

52 minutes ago, Billeb said:

Tuckeri fairly close (approx 4ft) from my Bismarckia with the hopes that it would eventually grow over the Bismarckia and kinda push thru the fronds to unobstructed skies. Currently…..my Bismarckia is growing like crazy but the Tuckeri is definitely gaining steam. I’m hoping my vision will come to fruition or the Tuckeri may end up looking like your Lanceolata.

It will be an interesting thing to watch for you Dale.  My neighbor planted a Syagrus romanzoffiana in a narrow planter just behind the Bizzie.  Initially the Queen was winning the race up, but as you can see above, the Bizzie picks up steam once it forms trunk.  A year after the photo above, that race is evening out now.  It will be interesting to see what sort of pressure the Bizzie is putting on the Queen when I get over there early next month for a transition in our tenants.  Maybe the thicker trunk of the Queen will help it stand up straight.... or maybe not.  Either way good luck with your Tuckeri and look forward to seeing the spacing.

[Billy]

Another update on the elevated planter…

Yesterday I acquired a 15g watermelon Chambeyronia that had seen quite a bit of full sun where it was grown about 20 minutes inland from where I live so I deemed the palm ready for the sun exposure at this location. I would have never planted the palm in such a sunny location but I felt it would be silly to throw a palm that’s been blasted on by way more intense inland full sun into a shadier location here at the coast so I took advantage of the fact that this palm is sun grown. Keeping in mind Tracy’s advice, I tried to plant the palm as far away as possible from the Bismarckia. I measured it and the Chambeyronia is 9’6” away from the Bismarckia. Really hoping that’s not too close but it may be borderline. I know Chambeyronia’s are slow growers but it’s advantage is that it has a head start on the Bismarckia. The Chambeyronia is 6’8” from the base of the trunk to the tip of the spear where the Bismarckia is still just a pup. So we’re off to the races! The goal here is for the Chambeyronia to shoot up to the sky and go vertical before the Bismarckia does. Hopefully this wasn’t a naive move on my part. Only time will tell…

[Billy]

[Billy]

The chambeyronia is also slightly tilted as you can see in the first photo. This worried me a little so I try to straighten it out yesterday afternoon and it's a little better. At least it's tilted away from the fence rather than leaning towards it. I figure it may straighten itself out as it grows?

[Billeb]

On 5/18/2022 at 12:15 PM, Tracy said:

……It will be an interesting thing to watch for you Dale……. Either way good luck with your Tuckeri and look forward to seeing the spacing.

I measured it and it is 4ft but looking at it now…..I may have made a mistake!! 

Can’t do much about it now.  Hopefully it pushes thru into the sky as I hope. If not….”If he dies..he dies” : Ivan Drago - Rocky IV. 
 

-dale

 

[Billy]

Holy smokes that Bismarckia’s kegging! Still an up an comer. That thing’s gunna be a bomber. It kinda already is haha…
 

If it’s me I’d almost consider digging up and relocating the Tuckeri. Especially after seeing what happened to Tracy’s lanceolata. 

[Billy]

Here’s the photo with the measurement…will I able to get away with this?

[Billeb]

2 hours ago, Billy said:

Holy smokes that Bismarckia’s kegging! Still an up an comer. That thing’s gunna be a bomber. It kinda already is haha…
 

If it’s me I’d almost consider digging up and relocating the Tuckeri. Especially after seeing what happened to Tracy’s lanceolata. 

I’m not worried about it. Like I said, if it starts looking like crap, I’ll dig it out. I’ve got another one in the front corner of my yard that is doing awesome. Planted out as a 2G last year and it’s done really well. (picture attached) I’m kinda optimistic actually tho. Lanceolata and Archontophoenix are totally different. I feel like a Lanceolata would have problems cuz it’s not a very big trunked tree whereas Archontophoenix might be able to deal with it. I don’t know, I’m likely just talking myself into it. 
 

-dale

[James B]

9 minutes ago, Billeb said:

I’m not worried about it. Like I said, if it starts looking like crap, I’ll dig it out. I’ve got another one in the front corner of my yard that is doing awesome. Planted out as a 2G last year and it’s done really well. (picture attached) I’m kinda optimistic actually tho. Lanceolata and Archontophoenix are totally different. I feel like a Lanceolata would have problems cuz it’s not a very big trunked tree whereas Archontophoenix might be able to deal with it. I don’t know, I’m likely just talking myself into it. 
 

-dale

Tuckeri are rockets compared to Dypsis. They will grow up much faster than Bismarckia. It might get muscled in on, but it will be looking down at that point.

[Billy]

12 hours ago, Billeb said:

I’m kinda optimistic actually tho. Lanceolata and Archontophoenix are totally different. I feel like a Lanceolata would have problems cuz it’s not a very big trunked tree whereas Archontophoenix might be able to deal with it. 

A good point you make here! I agree. Will be interesting to see what happens. I love this kinda stuff

[Billy]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:43 AM, Little Tex said:

Wodyetia bifurcata

I may end up doing this back in the corner just to add something with a little height and some ringed trunk. Will post photos if/when it happens. 

[Billy]

Look out here comes the color! Just barely getting started. So much fun to slowly piece it together. Of course bromeliads will be moved around but this is just an idea of how I want to fill it in with color around the palms. Always nice to take advantage of the shade palms give. 

[Tracy]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:00 AM, Tracy said:

Well perhaps there is hope...  I was doing some work at the house and was able to get an update on the Dypsis lanceolata.  With the Bismarckia pressing down less, the D lanceolata looks like it's under less stress and will survive.  Speed is on the Bizzie's side I guess.

On the other side... Dypsis lutescens must have got the message and the trunks are just all growing arched away from the Bizzie.

[pohonkelapa]

On 4/18/2022 at 4:39 PM, Tracy said:

Billy, I assume this is going in the elevated planter, correct?  A Bismarckia would definitely give you a wide spread with a good deal of privacy, but would be pretty darn massive for that upper planter.  I'm guessing this is in the back on the south side of the lot as opposed to the far west side of the lot?  Fast growing alternatives to Archontophoenix, my first thought is Dypsis leptocheilos but it wouldn't give a lot of privacy once it got above the fence line, but would do a decent job while still a little lower.  If you want this to do screening, clumping Dypsis species are a good bet in our climate.  Going in a little different direction, you can probably find some decent size Pritchardia that would be smaller in foot print than the Bismarckia yet still provide some screening for quite a while.  Some of the Pritchardia will grow pretty fast too.  A bit slower but a spectacular palm for our area would be Sabal mauritiformis, which is my personal favorite of the Sabal genus.  Even a smaller one would look spectacular planted up in that planter with the contrasting colors of the tops and bottoms of the leaves.   Those are just a few thoughts to mull over.  I do like getting into the non-pinnate palms to mix things up if you aren't already growing many palmate or costapalmate palms. 

Great suggestions!

[Billy]

Another update…

We’ve made a few changes since the first palm planting(watermelon Chambeyronia Macrocarpa) went in. Over the last week we added a wodyetia bifurcata as @Little Tex had suggested. I figured the foxtail would easily out run the bizzie as she’s already shooting for the sky. The foxtail is definitely closer than I would like it to be but it’s a small planter and I’m trying to do my best with the little space available. I’m sure others have done more daring than these plantings but I think it’ll still be a little tight. It will be fun to watch unfold. Here’s a few photos showing the spacing measurements as well as a nice surprise from the Chambeyronia! I screamed yesterday afternoon when I got home from work and could see the frond backlit from the sun showing some red color…wooooo!

[Billy]

So there’s 9’4” between the Chambeyronia and the Bismarckia, and 6’4” between the Bismarckia and the Foxtail. I gave the Chambeyronia more space as the foxtail is already trunking. The foxtail trunk will without a doubt have to put up with those stick fronds pushing on it’s trunk down the road but I think the crown will always be in the clear. By the way, thanks @Tracy for sharing photos of your experience with the Carlsbad Bismarckia. That thing’s an absolute beauty and I love how clean you have the trunk looking. Another thing I really appreciate is the way the Bismarckia has caused the Lutescens to lean away like that. Definitely a super tropical look an a great color contrast! 

[Billeb]

Your way good on the spacing I think. And congrats on your color confirmation/surprise. 
 

-dale