Growing from seed Johannesteijsmannia altifrons, Johannesteijsmannia magnifica, Kerriodoxa elegans, and Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii'

[eatcitrus]

Journey growing from seed
Johannesteijsmannia altifrons - Joey Palm
Johannesteijsmannia magnifica - Silver Joey Palm
Kerriodoxa elegans - White Elephant Palm
Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii'

Buying from RarePalm Seeds.com (RPS)
I ordered these seeds from (RPS) on Dec 29, 2021 to ship to California:
(10) Corypha umbraculifera - Talipot Palm
(5) Johannesteijsmannia altifrons - Joey Palm
(10) Johannesteijsmannia magnifica - Silver Joey Palm
(10) Kerriodoxa elegans - White Elephant Palm
(10) Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii'

This was my first time ordering from them, and did not know that I needed to provide a permit for small lot of seeds orders less than 50 seeds [My Bad]
January 18th, 2022 and my order had not been shipped yet. I realized my error and got the appropriate PPQ-587 Permit. 
PPQ-587 Permit is free and can be applied online. Mine was approved the same day, if not instantly on Jan 18, 2022.
I emailed RPS to change my shipping address to the Inspection Station, and to use the Shipping Label provided by the approved permit on the package exterior.
As well as to include inside the package a copy of my PPQ-587 Permit, a Commercial Invoice, and a Seeds List as instructed my the permit.
I emailed RPS a Seed List that included what was Ordered Permit Information, and Shipping Information.
The Permit said to either include either a Pre-Paid Shipping Label or a Carrier Account Number. I put my Fedex Ground Account.
RPS replied 1 day later to my email, and it was shipped out 4 days later.

Edited April 8, 2022 by eatcitrus

[eatcitrus]

Shipping & Inspection
Jan 21, 2022 - Shipped from Germany
Feb 5, 2022 - Arrived to US (New York)
Feb 6, 2022 - Entered Customs (New York)
Feb 15, 2022 - Departed Customs (New York)
Feb 22, 2022 - Arrived to Plant Inspection Station (California)
Feb 28, 2022 - Got an email from Inspection Officer to provide Invoice for the Order (I emailed back the same day)
Mar 1, 2022 - I received a letter in the mail from the Plant Inspection station that were was an infestation of Anthribidae larvae in the Sabal Palmetto seeds, and those seeds were removed and destoryed. I didn't order Sabal Palmetto, so I didn't think too much and it was just 1 of the 5 things I ordered.
Mar 16, 2022 - I still had not received my package and I am 40 miles from the Inspection Station. I wondered if that letter meant that the entire package was destroyed. So I call the Inspection Station, and spoke with the Inspection Officer that assigned to my package. They said that only the infested seed packet was removed, the rest were shipped via USPS. I noted that I put my Fedex Account Number with the paperwork, and they said that they'll ship it free via USPS unless a physical shipping label is provided. However, if shipped free via USPS, there is no additional tracking from the Inspection Station to the Final Destination. They remember shipping it out early March, so they said it was odd it was taking that long (I assumed someone might have stolen it off my porch at that point).
Mar 23, 2022 - Package Arrived. 61 Days to ship to California.

Contents:
(0) Corypha umbraculifera
(5) Johannesteijsmannia altifrons
(9) Johannesteijsmannia magnifica
(8) Kerriodoxa elegans
(11) Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii'

Resolution to Infestation & Short Shipment
I emailed RPS in regards to the infested and short shipment, and requested a refund for the infested and missing seeds.
They replied 1 day later, and said that they could not do a refund, but could offer replacements in my next order, which for me was an acceptable solution.

Edited April 8, 2022 by eatcitrus

[PalmsandLiszt]

Very sloppy of them to send you fewer seeds than you paid for, particularly with seeds that cost nearly $10 each. RPS has always sent me exactly the number I ordered, no more and no less. I think they must have just been having a bad day when they put your order together. Good to know they quickly sorted it out (having RPS replying to an email is like seeing a double rainbow).

I'm interested to see how you get on with the Licualas, as I received some seeds of this species from RPS not long ago, so yours are probably of the same batch. I've not yet had any luck getting them to germinate.
The other three species should be very easy.

Edited April 10, 2022 by PalmsandLiszt

[eatcitrus]

Germination (Soaking)
Apr 8, 2022 - Deshelled and started soaking seeds indoors in translucent plastic deli containers (washed and sanitized with isopropyl alcohol) with tap water run through a Brita filter on a south-facing window sill. I put them on the window sill to increase the temperature, even though I've read that these seeds need darkness to germinate. Average daily high was ~69-70F (21C). Water was changed daily. 
Apr 13, 2022 - Seeds were put into growing medium (5 days soaking)

J. altifrons
Cracking J. altifrons seeds was not too difficult.
Most of the shell coming off easily by pressing the bottom of a ceramic bowl against the shell and a desk table, but took a while to pick at the remaining shell stuck to the seed with my fingers.
1/5 was rotten underneath the shell with brown/black splotchy and slippery patterns on the skin but the growth point was not rotten. It was put in an individual container for soaking.
5/5 sank in water
0/5 sprouted after soaking for 5 days
4/5 will move on to growing in medium (the 1 rotten seed will be watched separately)

J. magnifica
Cracking J. magnifica seeds was very difficult.
Half were able to be cracked by the pressing method, but only to just chip off a small piece.
The uncracked seeds were soaked for 1 day, but it did not seem to soften the hard shell at all.
So I used the backside (not sharp edge) of a cleaver and whacked the shells a few times to make a small crack.
A majority of the shell was stuck to the seed, and needed the use of a metal curette nail tool to ship away a half of the shell and expose the growth point.
2/9 were severely rotten at the growth point. All black tissue was removed with the curette. They were put in individual containers for soaking (very low expectations).
9/9 sank in water
5/9 sprouted a 1-2mm white nub from the side growth point after soaking for 5 days
7/9 will move on to growing medium (the 2 rotten seeds were discarded)

K. elegans
No outer shell on K. elegans, no needed to be cracked.
The seeds were very hard like the Johannesteijsmannia. I unknowingly tried pressing them like before, but was no seeing any cracking.
I went online to see how to prep these seeds and saw a cross section of a seed cut opened with freshy tissue near the surface. I realized these didn't have a hard shell to crack.
0/8 were rotten
7/8 sank in water initially, the 1 floating seed sank after 2 days (it was not marked or separated from the group)
2/8 sprouted a 3-5mm cylindrical core from the bottom growth point after soaking for 5 days
8/8 will move on to growing medium

L. peltata var. 'sumawongii'
Cracking L. peltata var. 'sumawongii' seeds was very easy.
The outer shells were able to be cracked open simply by pinching them by hand.
1/11 was moldy with a greyish-white mold on about 25% that individual seed. It was put in an individual container for soaking.
11/11 sank in water
0/11 sprouted after soaking for 5 days
10/11 will move on to growing in medium (the 1 moldy seed will be watched separately)

Seeds moving on to growing medium
(4) Johannesteijsmannia altifrons
(7) Johannesteijsmannia magnifica
(8) Kerriodoxa elegans
(10) Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii'
 

[eatcitrus]

Growing Mediums (2 Types)
I'm hedging my bets with trying 2 different growing mediums, Pal Meir's Soil Mix and Phil Bergman's Palm Soil.

Growing Medium #1: Pal Meir Soil Mix
Using Pal Meir's recommendation for small pots from this post:
https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/50020-lytocaryum-weddellianum-in-pots/&page=7&tab=comments#comment-935358
1/2 Fine Pine Bark (6-8mm)
1/2 Seramis

What I used as available alternatives in the US:
1/2 Fine Fir Bark (E.B. Stone's Orchid Bark (Fine))
1/2 Montmorillonite Calcined Clay (Monto Clay from BonsaiJack.com)

Seramis seems to be only available in Europe. I saw people online saying that Turface MVP is a US alternative.
I also found Monto Clay from BonsaiJack.com that claimed it was the same the same stuff as Turface MVP but with larger particle size.
Just from looking at online photos from Pal Meir's post, it looked like the Seramis used had a larger particle size compared to Turface MVP and Monto Clay.
From online photos, Monto Clay looked larger than Turface, but still looked smaller than the Seramis used in Pal Meir's mix.
Monto Clay is slightly more expensive than Turface MVP, but Turface MVP is only sold in 50lb bags.
I don't think I would have used all 50lbs and have it taking up space or tossing it out.
I went with the Monto Clay in the end and bought 2 gallons.

Seramis (translated from German)
Composition: 100% Raw Clay / Expanded Clay
pH: 5.7
(source: Seramis website, Seramis brochure)

Turface MVP
Composition: Heat Treated Montmorillonite Clay Mineral / Calcined, non-swelling illite clay
pH: 6.5 + 1.0
Particle Size: 3.36mm (16.4%), 2.38mm (41.1%), 1.68mm (23.7%), 0.841mm (18.0%)
(source: Turface SDS, Turface Data Sheet)

Monto Clay from BonsaiJack
Composition: Montmorillonite Calcined Clay
pH: 5.6
Particle Size: 1/4 inch (6.35mm)
(source: BonsaiJack Website)

Growing Medium #2: Phil Bergman's Palm Soil
Phil Bergman is the person behind JungleMusic.net.
Back in November 2021 at his nursery in San Diego, I bought a small 6" pot licuala (labeled as Licuala elegans, but probably a sumawongii) as well as 15 gallons of his Palm Soil (only available at nursery, cannot be shipped).
I repotted the licuala into a 7 gallon container with the soil mix and it has survived 5 months and it put out a new leaf.
I figured, if this works for his palms, it should work for these seeds.

I saw he posted the Palm Soil recipe online:
10% Amended Topsoil (has about 1/3 high quality topsoil and 2/3 humus)
15% Pumice, #2
15% 0 - 1/8 inch Pine Bark
15% Nitrolized Redwood Shavings
20% Perlite, #2
10% Coarse Washed Sand, #12
15% Coarse Peat Moss
To this formulae above he adds, per cubic yard: "one lb. dolomite, one lb. osmocote (14-14-14), and lb. [sic] of a microelement mix called Micromax Plus."
pH: 6.3-6.5
(source: JungleMusic website)

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by eatcitrus

[eatcitrus]

Seed Updates (only Kerriodoxa elegans survived)
(0) Johannesteijsmannia altifrons: Thrips ate the growth point of the seeds, 1 seed did not germinate
(0) Johannesteijsmannia magnifica: Thrips ate the growth point of the seeds
(2) Kerriodoxa elegans: 2 of the 8 seed survived, the other 6 rotted at the growth point or had thrips eat at the growth point.
(0) Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii': All 10 seeds did not germinate

Of the 2 K. elegans that did survive, one was planted in the Pal Meir mix, one was planted in the Palm Soil.
As over these past 4 months when I would check on all the seeds I would try to nudge the seed at the surface to see if there was a root anchoring them to the medium. These 2 seeds were doing better than the others.

The one in the Pal Meir mix was doing better. I gently shook the container on its side to remove the medium to reveal what lies below.
The seed sent down a 10cm root and created a white bulb at the bottom of the container that resembled a bamboo shoot (~2cm diameter, 3cm tall) with plenty of roots

The one in the Palm Soil was not doing as well. I gently shook the container on its side to remove the medium, which retained more moisture than the Pal Meir mix.
The seed also sent down a 10cm root, but that root had rotted and broke; however, there was a small white bulb at the bottom (0.5cm diameter, 1cm long) with small root nubs.
I removed the remnants of the rotten seed-to-bulb root on the bulb, then rinsed it with 3% hydrogen peroxide.
I moved the bulb to a container with the Pal Meir mix, since the other seed looked much bigger in that mix.
Hopefully this bulb can survive without that seed umbilical cord.

The L. peltata var. 'sumawongii' seeds were planted underneath the surface so it was hard to know if anything was happening.
So after unearthing the other seeds, I went to check on them and no signs of germination or growth.

 

[PalmsandLiszt]

13 hours ago, eatcitrus said:

Seed Updates (only Kerriodoxa elegans survived)
(0) Johannesteijsmannia altifrons: Thrips ate the growth point of the seeds, 1 seed did not germinate
(0) Johannesteijsmannia magnifica: Thrips ate the growth point of the seeds
(2) Kerriodoxa elegans: 2 of the 8 seed survived, the other 6 rotted at the growth point or had thrips eat at the growth point.
(0) Licuala peltata var. 'sumawongii': All 10 seeds did not germinate

Sorry to hear you joey seeds didn't make it. I have 4 J. altifrons seedlings that seem to be doing well in Pal Meir mix; only one seedling succumbed to something or other just after starting to push up its eophyll into the light, and then stalled and collapsed. With J. magnifica I have had less luck; one started pushing a spear up, then stalled and died like the altifrons; another never made it to the surface (although I don't think thrips had anything to do with it). These were in identical media and conditions as the J. altifrons, so it seems that J. magnifica needs something slightly different.
I have a new four of them incubating in moss (which I probably ought to check by now). I'm not tremendously optimistic, as RPS is now selling germinated J. magnifica seeds (E.U. only so I can't buy them), so if the ungerminated seeds are simply the ones that haven't done anything, that doesn't bode particularly well.

All the joeys that are doing well I germinated in sterile moss until the root was at least 2 or 3 inches long; I'd do this with Kerriodoxa too and any other remote germinator. I don't know whether not doing this was a factor in your failure.

14 hours ago, eatcitrus said:

The one in the Palm Soil was not doing as well. I gently shook the container on its side to remove the medium, which retained more moisture than the Pal Meir mix.
The seed also sent down a 10cm root, but that root had rotted and broke; however, there was a small white bulb at the bottom (0.5cm diameter, 1cm long) with small root nubs.
I removed the remnants of the rotten seed-to-bulb root on the bulb, then rinsed it with 3% hydrogen peroxide.
I moved the bulb to a container with the Pal Meir mix, since the other seed looked much bigger in that mix.
Hopefully this bulb can survive without that seed umbilical cord.

If the seed was very light or empty when you cut the cord, then there should be a good chance that the embryo has exhausted everything the seed could provide it with and might well yet survive. I'd suggest putting it nearer the surface (but deep enough that it doesn't dry out) so the spear can reach the light faster.

 

I've still have had no success either with the RPS L. p. summawongii seeds (using moss baggie method). I wonder if they are simply old seeds.