Zone Pushing in 7b

[knikfar]

I'd love to see what my fellow zone 7b palm enthusiasts are growing that aren't typically thought of as hardy or are considered marginal in zone 7b. Please share what you're growing, how long you've been growing it, what temperature extremes its experienced and what protection methods, if any, you use. 

[knikfar]

27 minutes ago, knikfar said:

I'd love to see what my fellow zone 7b palm enthusiasts are growing that aren't typically thought of as hardy or are considered marginal in zone 7b. Please share what you're growing, how long you've been growing it, what temperature extremes its experienced and what protection methods, if any, you use. 

For everyone's information, I have a butia I've been growing outside for the past year. I protected it for about three weeks in January when we had three frozen preciption events. Other than that, its been on its own and is doing great. I also just planted a butia yaytay x jubaea so we'll see how that goes. And I'm trialing some super hardy washingtonia that I grew from seed collected from the long term Washy in Fayetteville NC, all here in my Raleigh NC yard. 

[Little Tex]

Can I see pictures?

Please?

[Honez]

I am 7B here.  I have 3 Butia's, about 80 Sabal Palmettos, 2 Windmill palms, a handful of CIDP's starting to germinate, and a key lime tree haha.  We will see what I can keep alive this year.  Seems everything I try just dies.

[NCFM]

I'm located about 20 miles NW of Greensboro, and I've been growing palms here for three years. In ground I have three trachycarpus fortunei, three sabal minor, one sabal louisiana, one cycas revoluta, and two washingtonia robusta which I protect using insulation board boxes when we get temps below 25F.

I am also growing sabal minor, sabal causiarum, sabal mexicana, sabal palmetto, washingtonia robusta, phoenix canariensis, and ravenea rivularis in pots.

The lowest temp I saw this winter was 16 degrees, and the two years before that were even milder. I didn't have any palms yet during the awful 2018 freeze event, but I'm sure I would've had some losses

 

[Honez]

I miss being back home in the Carolinas!  

All of my palms are in pots because my soil is about the hardest clay you can find.

[knikfar]

3 hours ago, Little Tex said:

Can I see pictures?

Please?

The larger one is my butia capitata and the smaller is my butia hybrid. 

[knikfar]

3 hours ago, Honez said:

I am 7B here.  I have 3 Butia's, about 80 Sabal Palmettos, 2 Windmill palms, a handful of CIDP's starting to germinate, and a key lime tree haha.  We will see what I can keep alive this year.  Seems everything I try just dies.

Well that sounds like a lot that hasn't died. Great job! How old is everything? Do you protect in the winter? How about lowest temps experienced? 

[knikfar]

2 hours ago, Honez said:

I miss being back home in the Carolinas!  

All of my palms are in pots because my soil is about the hardest clay you can find.

I think some species prefer the clay. During the 2018 super cold we had, many trachycarpus closer to the coast died while those here in Raleigh didn't skip a beat. My soil is mostly clay loam I think. But I still amend when I plant. 

[WSimpson]

One of my most showy palms is my Butia . I'm sure you have seen this picture but I don't see any around here anywhere close to as big as mine . I just noticed Shaylen hiding behind it .

Will

 

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Edited March 17, 2022 by Will Simpson

[Honez]

31 minutes ago, knikfar said:

Well that sounds like a lot that hasn't died. Great job! How old is everything? Do you protect in the winter? How about lowest temps experienced? 

No all of my older tracy's and pindos from last year died.  I made some posts on here trying to save them.  The sabals are all seedlings going into their second year, but I honestly have no clue how many of those are even still alive.  The current palms are all new to start over so to speak.  If these die I am done, to many thousands wasted trying to figure this out haha.  Everything I have that is new are all 5 years or younger.  The sabal and CIDP seedlings are brand new plants.

For winter I spent about 1k to get a greenhouse and seal it up.  Then it has a heater, grow lights, and a fan.  But the older palms I put into it last fall that were healthy, are all dead now.  Spears pulled out in Feb and the middles were dead, rotten and brown.  So I just started over, again for the third year in a row.  I know out of the 80 Sabal seedlings at least 8 are for sure still alive.  I will repot them all within the next week or two.  Hopefully these new Butia's and tracys make it through winter this year.  

As far as lows, the lowest we got to was 12 degrees this year at night.  the lowest the greenhouse got to was 39 degrees. 

 

[knikfar]

32 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

One of my most showy palms is my Butia . I'm sure you have seen this picture but I don't see any around here anywhere close to as big as mine . I just noticed Shaylen hiding behind it .

Will

 

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I have seen this beauty and it gives me hope for my own. Gorgeous. 

[knikfar]

3 minutes ago, Honez said:

No all of my older tracy's and pindos from last year died.  I made some posts on here trying to save them.  The sabals are all seedlings going into their second year, but I honestly have no clue how many of those are even still alive.  The current palms are all new to start over so to speak.  If these die I am done, to many thousands wasted trying to figure this out haha.  Everything I have that is new are all 5 years or younger.  The sabal and CIDP seedlings are brand new plants.

For winter I spent about 1k to get a greenhouse and seal it up.  Then it has a heater, grow lights, and a fan.  But the older palms I put into it last fall that were healthy, are all dead now.  Spears pulled out in Feb and the middles were dead, rotten and brown.  So I just started over, again for the third year in a row.  I know out of the 80 Sabal seedlings at least 8 are for sure still alive.  I will repot them all within the next week or two.  Hopefully these new Butia's and tracys make it through winter this year.  

As far as lows, the lowest we got to was 12 degrees this year at night.  the lowest the greenhouse got to was 39 degrees. 

 

Back in the summer of 2018, which was the summer that followed our 100 year cold event along our coast, I collected fresh sabal seeds from a larger plant that appeared to have no damage at all. And I know it wasn't protected because its in the parking area of a closed business. That parent tree spent a week below freezing and a low temp of 0F. I've grown more babies from that plant that I know what to do with. My greenhouse is full of them. I also have 7 of them planted in my yard as individuals and three clumps of multiples. The clumps have been out there for two winters now with no protection at all and they seem to be doing just fine. I think 17f was the low temp for Raleigh this winter. 

[Honez]

Nice, I am from Wilmington.  So I have always wanted a BHI variant of the Sabal.  I keep telling myself every time I go back home to go take the ferry over and get some seeds but I always forget.  

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 hour ago, knikfar said:

The larger one is my butia capitata

Looks more like Butia odorata.  If it truly is a Butia capitada (which are rare in cultivation), where did you get it?  FYI...Butia odorata are commonly mislabeled Butia capitada in the nursery trade due to a convoluted naming and taxonomy history.

 

ST10500 (Butia odorata).pdf v55n1p48-49.pdf

[knikfar]

1 minute ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Looks more like Butia odorata.  If it truly is a Butia capitada (which are rare in cultivation), where did you get it?  FYI...Butia odorata are commonly mislabeled Butia capitada in the nursery trade due to a convoluted naming and taxonomy history.

 

ST10500 (Butia odorata).pdf 2.35 MB · 0 downloads v55n1p48-49.pdf 83.65 kB · 0 downloads

I purchased it at Home Depot last summer. It was labled Capitada but I wouldn't know the difference between that and odorata by looking at the plant. Is there any benefit to odorata over capitata?

[GoatLockerGuns]

23 minutes ago, knikfar said:

Is there any benefit to odorata over capitata?

I am not really an expert on Butia or anything; however, from what I have read about it, if you bought it from Home Depot then it is probably Butia odorata (AKA Pindo Palm).  I think the true Butia capitada presents with a more dwarf stature...like maybe 5 meters high max?  When most people speak of Pindo Palms, I believe they are actually talking about Butia odorata.  I think this is the most common of the Butia genus cultivated/sold.  I personally think the nursery trade, and big box stores in particular, often mislabel their wares.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, knikfar said:

I purchased it at Home Depot last summer. It was labled Capitada but I wouldn't know the difference between that and odorata by looking at the plant. Is there any benefit to odorata over capitata?

Rich is correct.  99.9% of Butia sold in big box stores are either Butia odorata (common in Texas) or catarinensis (common in Florida/SE).  Both of these species are native to far southern Brasil south into Uruguay and Argentina - well south of the Tropic of Capricorn and therefore cold hardy.  These species were lumped together with capitata several years ago and are still sometimes mistakenly mislabeled.  Doesn't happen too much these days but I purchased an odorata from Lowe's a few years ago labeled as capitata.  There is a true species of Butia capitata which is native to north/central Brasil (Mines Gerais, Goias and Bahia states which are tropical) and capitata is quite rare in cultivation so you are not likely to ever see one for sale.  Probably a zone 9 palm.  Odorata and catarinensis are much more cold hardy.

[knikfar]

11 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Rich is correct.  99.9% of Butia sold in big box stores are either Butia odorata (common in Texas) or catarinensis (common in Florida/SE).  Both of these species are native to far southern Brasil south into Uruguay and Argentina - well south of the Tropic of Capricorn and therefore cold hardy.  These species were lumped together with capitata several years ago and are still sometimes mistakenly mislabeled.  Doesn't happen too much these days but I purchased an odorata from Lowe's a few years ago labeled as capitata.  There is a true species of Butia capitata which is native to north/central Brasil (Mines Gerais, Goias and Bahia states which are tropical) and capitata is quite rare in cultivation so you are not likely to ever see one for sale.  Probably a zone 9 palm.  Odorata and catarinensis are much more cold hardy.

I just hope I’m able to keep mine alive for a long time to come, whatever variety it is

[Chad king NC]

I live just north of Winston Salem, NC in what I consider to be 7a.  However most winters are 7b/8a.  I am pushing a trachy princeps,  butia, CIPD, a couple of palmettos and a Chamaerops humilis cerifera.  I just dug up my silver saw.  It was never gonna make it.  The last coupme yrs I have only used frost cloth for protection.   In 2018 I had to use heat cables as well.

[Nomad NYC]

Some  of what I'm currently growing in ground in my own 7B Zone :

1 ) European Fan Palm  ( Southern Queens ) :

 

2) Canary Island Date Palm ( Southern Queens ) :

 

3) Sabal Minor ( Central Brooklyn )

 

( I also have Sabal Palmetto seedlings -  they are still under winter wraps, so I'll show them off soon them in another post )

Edited April 3, 2022 by Nomad NYC

[Nomad NYC]

  As promised, here are the pictures of my seed grown, in-ground Sabal Palmetto plants taken last month , around the beginning of April Both of them survived the winter ( with the help of some plastic Victorian Bell cloches ), though it appears  one more so than the other  :

1) While this first one was in a good microclimate and protected, it  unfortunately didn't receive much sunlight at it's location during winter , being  in a dark corner of the yard. With the result  that all it's leaves took cold damage. Hopefully,  it should recover as the weather continues to gets warmer here.

2) Now this one was in a much better area of the yard that receives sunlight all times of the year,  plus also in the same microclimate ( southern facing wall  / fence that also blocks cold blasts from north ) . Looking much better than the first one, right?

Both of these plants are five years old, but as sabals, they are growing very slowly  - even more so with their active time limited to practically half the year in my zone.  But I believe that  their growth can be somewhat accelerated if given added nutrients, so I'm looking into giving them some sort of palm fertilizer very soon.