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Best Cold Hardy Livistona

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Xenon
1 minute ago, DAVEinMB said:

Mine looks like garbage right now haha. But I think the question was regarding which one would be best to try as a zone push

Chinensis is crispy at like 22F but might survive 10F (which is why it gets the semi-perennial label)

On the other hand, decora looks ok at 18-19F but is flat out dead at 15F. It might actually be a "better" zone push in MB and will probably last a while with some luck. 

Sorry didn't mean to come off negative (I'm pushing a ton of zone 10 stuff myself haha) but just thought it was important to highlight the big difference between leaf hardiness and bud hardiness. 

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DAVEinMB
12 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Chinensis is crispy at like 22F but might survive 10F (which is why it gets the semi-perennial label)

On the other hand, decora looks ok at 18-19F but is flat out dead at 15F. It might actually be a "better" zone push in MB and will probably last a while with some luck. 

Sorry didn't mean to come off negative (I'm pushing a ton of zone 10 stuff myself haha) but just thought it was important to highlight the big difference between leaf hardiness and bud hardiness. 

No no, I definitely see your point. Regularly burnt foliage and no give up can fall into the perennial category. 

I have a Decora planted less than 10' from my chinensis so we'll see what kinda story the two tell. It was a roll the dice purchase so I'm ok with knowing it's on borrowed time, just wanna see how long that time is. 

I gotcha brother and if I came off negative I didn't mean to. I'll just never get over how tough chinensis is, regardless of how disheveled a winter may leave it looking

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Jtee
2 hours ago, Xenon said:

It has been extremely warm in your area for the last 4 winters, several degrees above average each year (I'm super jealous and would like a turn too haha). 

I have to correct myself earlier, I’ve been here 4 winters now, but Yeah, it reminds me of south central Texas here, we all could grow lots of great palms easily and they’d look great if it weren’t for 4 or 5 days a year that really just hurt and leaf burn some palms. 

Edited by Jtee
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Matt N- Dallas
On 2/18/2022 at 8:33 AM, Meangreen94z said:

I think the more trunk it grows the harder it will be to keep alive. Matt-N-Dallas had two Nitida in San Marcos, one with probably 6-7 feet of trunk? The other just barely forming a trunk(if I remember correctly). He wrapped both, his area saw 6-7°F two nights in a row, along with temperatures below freezing for 5 days. The one barely forming a trunk survived.

Yes- I had l. nitida, subglobosa & decipiens all with 6’-8’ of trunk, unprotected during last Feb’s cold blast down to 6*F & all three died, yet much smaller, non trunked plants of all three varieties lived -unprotected.  Nitida has been the fastest grower by far.  I don’t think any livistona will be long term unless growing in a warm (southern) z9a or warmer.  

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JLM
On 2/17/2022 at 10:15 PM, Jtee said:

Just for kicks here are a clumping of Livestonia in 9a Santa Rosa Beach Florida on Christmas Eve

CAC13BFE-FC23-4138-A05D-D31163683D45.jpeg

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The ones in my neighborhood have crispy tips after 22F. They both have i would guess 2-3 ft of solid trunk. One of them flowers, and i picked some green fruit off of it last summer, however the seedling died. Never really could give a cause of death, it just withered away basically. Anyways, yeah it will look like trash if you have an average winter in zone 8a, but seriously yall let him zone push it if he wants too lol

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ZPalms
22 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

I really need to get some pics of the 6 L. Chinensis that have been growing for the past 10+ years a little south of Myrtle. They're planted at an apartment complex and get no protection and they're fairly tall. Based on the ones I've seen here as well as the ones in Charleston that all pulled through our 2018 winter I would not consider these a perennial in 8b or a stretch in 9a. And I get it, not every equivalent zone is created equal, ie a PNW z8b vs my z8b however they are much tougher than this thread is giving them credit for lol. Single digits every winter, that's a different story. But a moderate to warm 8a i think is worth a shot. @ZPalms find one cheap, baby it till it has some mass and/or is established, then let it ride. I think you'll be surprised. 

Oh that would be awesome to see! It still surprises me that myrtle beach has such a diverse selection of palms being where it's located, It's like it's own mini Florida

I think I'll do it and get L. Chinensis because being bud hardy is important if I'm experimenting with it and trying different things or different locations and if it dies back then I don't got to worry about it being dead dead unless it's severe damage but I've been doing research on greenhouses or similar structures because I'm set on getting my coconut into the ground, and having a greenhouse with a high point would hopefully give me enough space where I could store it and let it recover or get bigger then try and play around with it outside but I'm really excited to try and just have one in general B)

I really need to get one of those personal weather stations so I can figure out what are the temperature is around the yard

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Xerarch

If I wanted similar landscape effect in 8a but far superior recovery from damage I would just go with filibusta.

 

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ZPalms
46 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

If I wanted similar landscape effect in 8a but far superior recovery from damage I would just go with filibusta.

 

I do have some of these that I grew from seed and they are finally going into the ground this spring B) I just want the Livistona for the sake of zone pushing B)

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ZPalms

Just realized that Livistona look like sabals when they are young

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GoatLockerGuns
11 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Just realized that Livistona look like sabals when they are young

The cool thing about Livistona decora, other than their supposed cold hardiness potential, is that they go palmate very young.  They can be used in decorative pots, or in a garden setting, as "mini-palms."  I grew the one pictured below from seed, and snapped this shot today.  It is approximately two years old, and it started going palmate about one year after germination.  They are faster growers than most Sabal sps., go palmate sooner, and do not produce a "heel" like most Sabal sps. do.  However, given my own personal experience with Sabal sps. cold hardiness after last February's Texas freeze event, I can confidently argue that Sabal mexicana, Sabal minor, and Sabal palmetto are much more cold hardy than any Livistona sps.  They would be a safer bet for planting outdoors in a zone pushing environment.

image.thumb.jpeg.412494d91a9932a20fc7abe69d44d342.jpeg

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Little Tex

I had a triple chinensis but only one trunk survived 10 feet of trunk on the biggest one. that was just the freeze though.

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Fusca
1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

The cool thing about Livistona decora, other than their supposed cold hardiness potential, is that they go palmate very young.  They can be used in decorative pots, or in a garden setting, as "mini-palms."  I grew the one pictured below from seed, and snapped this shot today.  It is approximately two years old, and it started going palmate about one year after germination.  They are faster growers than most Sabal sps., go palmate sooner, and do not produce a "heel" like most Sabal sps. do.  However, given my own personal experience with Sabal sps. cold hardiness after last February's Texas freeze event, I can confidently argue that Sabal mexicana, Sabal minor, and Sabal palmetto are much more cold hardy than any Livistona sps.  They would be a safer bet for planting outdoors in a zone pushing environment.

image.thumb.jpeg.412494d91a9932a20fc7abe69d44d342.jpeg

It's true, the decora also start the petiole spines early!  Not an issue with Sabal.

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GoatLockerGuns
27 minutes ago, Fusca said:

It's true, the decora also start the petiole spines early! 

Yep...this one is already spiny.  The spines extend up the the outer sides of the fronds as well.

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ZPalms
5 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

The cool thing about Livistona decora, other than their supposed cold hardiness potential, is that they go palmate very young.  They can be used in decorative pots, or in a garden setting, as "mini-palms."  I grew the one pictured below from seed, and snapped this shot today.  It is approximately two years old, and it started going palmate about one year after germination.  They are faster growers than most Sabal sps., go palmate sooner, and do not produce a "heel" like most Sabal sps. do.  However, given my own personal experience with Sabal sps. cold hardiness after last February's Texas freeze event, I can confidently argue that Sabal mexicana, Sabal minor, and Sabal palmetto are much more cold hardy than any Livistona sps.  They would be a safer bet for planting outdoors in a zone pushing environment.

image.thumb.jpeg.412494d91a9932a20fc7abe69d44d342.jpeg

Oh cool I'll keep this in mind, I think the worst thing growing from seed is how long you gotta wait before they start looking like palms for most seedlings, my filibusta finally started getting their palmy looking leaves in their 3rd or 4th month which was very satisfying for me!

Eventually I'll be giving Sabal Mexicana a try and I already got palmetto and maybe eventually minor but I do love trunking palms but I've been thinking minor would be cool in flower beds B)

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GoatLockerGuns
20 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I think the worst thing growing from seed is how long you gotta wait before they start looking like palms for most seedlings

Adonidia merrillii, Bismarckia nobilis, Chamaedorea elegans, Dypsis lutescens, Dypsis pembana, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix dactylifera, Phoenix reclinata, Phoenix sylvestris, Roystonea regia, Sabal causiarum, Serenoa repens, Thrinax radiata, Washingtonia x filibusta, Washingtonia filifera, Washingtonia robusta, and Wodyetia bifurcata can all go palmate/pinnate within 2-3 years with the right grow conditions (I am sure there are more, those are just some that I have had luck with).  IMHO, all will make decent potted/house palms when young; however, some will get larger sooner than others.  What makes a good house plant/palm is all personal preference, and the lighting conditions at your house.

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ZPalms
1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Adonidia merrillii, Bismarckia nobilis, Chamaedorea elegans, Dypsis lutescens, Dypsis pembana, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix dactylifera, Phoenix reclinata, Phoenix sylvestris, Roystonea regia, Sabal causiarum, Serenoa repens, Thrinax radiata, Washingtonia x filibusta, Washingtonia filifera, Washingtonia robusta, and Wodyetia bifurcata can all go palmate/pinnate within 2-3 years with the right grow conditions (I am sure there are more, those are just some that I have had luck with).  IMHO, all will make decent potted/house palms when young; however, some will get larger sooner than others.  What makes a good house plant/palm is all personal preference, and the lighting conditions at your house.

I don't want to go too off topic, but with Majesty Palms, terrible house plants, but do they grow fast? It seems like they always have stock ready to go at big box stores. They must grow quick enough to be profitable, and people let them die to get more for the next season. I was looking at mine and saw the younger one with the dead feathery leaves. Do they also go pinnate early?

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Fusca
1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Adonidia merrillii, Bismarckia nobilis, Chamaedorea elegans, Dypsis lutescens, Dypsis pembana, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix dactylifera, Phoenix reclinata, Phoenix sylvestris, Roystonea regia, Sabal causiarum, Serenoa repens, Thrinax radiata, Washingtonia x filibusta, Washingtonia filifera, Washingtonia robusta, and Wodyetia bifurcata can all go palmate/pinnate within 2-3 years with the right grow conditions

Along these lines there are some palms whose juvenile leaves are already palmate/pinnate from the get go.  Mauritia flexuosa on left of pic below showing first leaf after germination is the only palmate palm that I know of that starts off this way.  Dypsis leptocheilos and Euterpe edulis (and possibly Chamaedorea elegans) start out pinnate.

001.thumb.JPG.e86a7a245c3bc9ec19eb13dcf445429b.JPG

Dypsis leptocheilos:

IMG_20220220_165631.jpg

Edited by Fusca
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spike
38 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Along these lines there are some palms whose juvenile leaves are already palmate/pinnate from the get go.  Mauritia flexuosa on left of pic below showing first leaf after germination is the only palmate palm that I know of that starts off this way.  Dypsis leptocheilos and Euterpe edulis (and possibly Chamaedorea elegans) start out pinnate.

Chamaedorea elegans does grow pinnate, all the home depot clumps are just sprouted seeds. Also syagrus weddelliana?

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DAVEinMB

Ok I got some pics together of the L. Chinensis planting I referenced earlier in the thread. These are at an condo complex in Pawleys Island. Looks like the complex was built in either 08 or 09. In 2011 it doesn't look like they were present but then they appear in 2014 with a picture gap between those years, not sure what year they were actually planted. Here's a few pics of how they've looked over the years with time stamps attached. I've also attached the low temps from the past 10 years or so as recorded by currentresults.com. When I go to True Blue to pick up my Monrovia order I'll get some pics of how they look following this year's winter storm. 

So if the general consensus is zone 8 is a zone push for L. Chinensis (which I'm not sure I completely agree with), at what point in your growing experiment do you consider it a win? These are commercial plantings so they're pretty much on their own and have gone through a number of cold winters including that brutal 2018 nonsense and still look great today. If I got 10 years out of a plant that people told me wouldn't make it and I gave it no special care, I'd be pretty damn happy. Like I said above, if you know you're going to see single digits every year then trying one of these is probably not going to be a good idea...but then again if single digits are common we're not talking zone 8 anymore. And no, they aren't going to look pristine in zone 8 but they will at least live long enough for you to get some enjoyment out of them. 

But that's the end of my rant haha, I'll post pics when I get to Pawleys. 

Screenshot_20220220-203815_Chrome.jpg

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2014-2.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2015-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2017-2.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2017-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2019-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2019-2.png

Edited by DAVEinMB
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Jtee

They look good to me!

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GoatLockerGuns
5 hours ago, ZPalms said:

but with Majesty Palms, terrible house plants, but do they grow fast?

Good question.  I have never tried to grow one from seed.  I bought a 5 gallon one from IKEA once; it died a slow miserable death.  I always thought it was my failure as an awful human being; however, after reading all the Majesty horror stories here on Palmtalk, I now think it was the palm's fault.  I would assume, being a more tropical palm, that the growth rate would be faster, and that it would pinnate early (like Chamaedorea elegans or Dypsis lutescens).  Also, I would image that if you were able to grow one from seed, and acclimate it to your home from the start (i.e., lower light levels, drier air, etc.), it might have a better chance of survival.  I do not think there is a big market for Ravenea rivularis seeds though, given the abundance of 1 gallon + big box store offerings.  The ones at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. are probably nursery grown in South Florida (as probably many other palms you find in big box stores).  They get lots of light, water, humility, fertilizer, etc.  They are grown fast for mass production and sales.

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ZPalms
2 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

Ok I got some pics together of the L. Chinensis planting I referenced earlier in the thread. These are at an condo complex in Pawleys Island. Looks like the complex was built in either 08 or 09. In 2011 it doesn't look like they were present but then they appear in 2014 with a picture gap between those years, not sure what year they were actually planted. Here's a few pics of how they've looked over the years with time stamps attached. I've also attached the low temps from the past 10 years or so as recorded by currentresults.com. When I go to True Blue to pick up my Monrovia order I'll get some pics of how they look following this year's winter storm. 

So if the general consensus is zone 8 is a zone push for L. Chinensis (which I'm not sure I completely agree with), at what point in your growing experiment do you consider it a win? These are commercial plantings so they're pretty much on their own and have gone through a number of cold winters including that brutal 2018 nonsense and still look great today. If I got 10 years out of a plant that people told me wouldn't make it and I gave it no special care, I'd be pretty damn happy. Like I said above, if you know you're going to see single digits every year then trying one of these is probably not going to be a good idea...but then again if single digits are common we're not talking zone 8 anymore. And no, they aren't going to look pristine in zone 8 but they will at least live long enough for you to get some enjoyment out of them. 

But that's the end of my rant haha, I'll post pics when I get to Pawleys. 

Screenshot_20220220-203815_Chrome.jpg

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2014-2.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2015-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2017-2.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2017-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2019-1.png

Pawleys L. Chinensis -- 2019-2.png

They look pretty good, If I were passing through and I saw them, I would probably think they were some sort of sabal but that house probably helps a little I'm guessing? I get those same temperatures in my area and If mine were to never makes it off the ground from dying back, I would still be fine with it being more of a perianal and If they burned I wouldn't mind it either, because I'd expect it, but would rather them not burn if I could help it. I know Green Dragan on YouTube keeps one alive in Canada with extensive protection and from the looks of it they look pristine and I could probably pull something together as well, but maybe not to the extent he does because I'm not looking for pristine, a little bit of browning on the tips isn't horrible to me

But if anything I could just dye the burnt parts green haha :floor:

Excited to see the winters results on those!

Edited by ZPalms
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ZPalms
38 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Good question.  I have never tried to grow one from seed.  I bought a 5 gallon one from IKEA once; it died a slow miserable death.  I always thought it was my failure as an awful human being; however, after reading all the Majesty horror stories here on Palmtalk, I now think it was the palm's fault.  I would assume, being a more tropical palm, that the growth rate would be faster, and that it would pinnate early (like Chamaedorea elegans or Dypsis lutescens).  Also, I would image that if you were able to grow one from seed, and acclimate it to your home from the start (i.e., lower light levels, drier air, etc.), it might have a better chance of survival.  I do not think there is a big market for Ravenea rivularis seeds though, given the abundance of 1 gallon + big box store offerings.  The ones at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. are probably nursery grown in South Florida (as probably many other palms you find in big box stores).  They get lots of light, water, humility, fertilizer, etc.  They are grown fast for mass production and sales.

 

I've been thinking of trying to find seeds somewhere and grow one myself because I really want to know what the speed is from seed to the size they sell at box stores because for them to grow that quickly for selling purposes is insane to me. I can't really find any information online on their actual growth speed except being a slow-growing plant when that can't be true then it wouldn't be profitable so maybe that's just information on potted majesty in a unsuitable conditions :huh:

Do they grow quickly outdoors in South Florida in the ground? I feel like I should open a majesty thread

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DAVEinMB
On 2/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, ZPalms said:

It still surprises me that myrtle beach has such a diverse selection of palms being where it's located, It's like it's own mini Florida

Yea like a B- Florida... or C+ even. We got all the general craziness just not the growing conditions lol

But I 100% agree from the palm standpoint. Before I really got into palm trees, zone pushing, etc I was basically blinded by the number of sabals here and was overlooking all the hidden gems. Now that I'm becoming more versed I'm learning to appreciate this area's climate and its growing potential 

Edited by DAVEinMB
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ZPalms
Just now, DAVEinMB said:

Yea like a B- Florida... or C+ even. We got all the general craziness just not the growing conditions lol

north ocean blvd Is so crazy, all the loud modded cars and people, I don't know what it's like during the off season but it's chaotic :floor:

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DAVEinMB
1 minute ago, ZPalms said:

north ocean blvd Is so crazy, all the loud modded cars and people, I don't know what it's like during the off season but it's chaotic :floor:

That off season window seems to be closing more and more every year which isn't a bad thing necessarily, but it does mean that the chaos switch stays on longer lol

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ZPalms
1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

But I 100% agree from the palm standpoint. Before I really got into palm trees, zone pushing, etc I was basically blinded by the number of sabals here and was overlooking all the hidden gems. Now that I'm becoming more versed I'm learning to appreciate this area's climate and its growing potential 

I don't know how but I completely missed this part, It was 3 am when I replied, I think, but It's 5 am now, but there's something about growing palms in areas where they don't make up a majority, makes it feel special and I really love zone pushing and my goal is for washingtonia domination in my area B) but as of now I don't really have anything staple in the ground yet except a sabal, but I'm excited to eventually have some of my palms in the ground this spring and actually have stuff to show off.

Even in areas where palms are more common, seeing the less common palms in your area is amazing because when I go to Myrtle Beach, I don't see anything but sabals and butias and didn't realize there were more diverse trees there; even washies are amazing when I see them!!!!

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D Palm

My Livistonia Chinensis took less damage than Washingtonia at 19-20F.   About 50% burn, Washy took about 80%.  They both typically take no damage but had a freak Arctic Blast without day time temps reaching the 60's a few days.  It will probably look really bad or die in NC. Worth a shot all the way up to Myrtle Beach, SC in my opinion.  They are common finds in N. Florida retailers/nursery.  Have multiples of both species, damage was consistent among the batch. 

You could protect it, but the fronds achieve a good size.

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Jtee

Was putting gas at the gas station where this livistonia is located and took a few more pics. It’s looking great in zone 8b nearing the end of winter. Even has some suckers popping up. 

81AD2164-7C15-4B41-95E3-CCDDE3547EC1.jpeg

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26E7D74B-635D-4778-9606-E95277AF8141.jpeg

9319B065-351E-4656-B858-F4258F331C12.jpeg

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Fusca
9 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Was putting gas at the gas station where this livistonia is located and took a few more pics. It’s looking great in zone 8b nearing the end of winter. Even has some suckers popping up. 

81AD2164-7C15-4B41-95E3-CCDDE3547EC1.jpeg

518E8E3D-88DF-4F58-A5CC-4C615DD4D90C.jpeg

Looks great, but those are volunteer seedlings.  Livistona are all solitary palms and don't sucker.

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buffy

I'm not sure how bud hardy they ultimately are, but I have a few Livistona saribus in the ground that are barely fazed after 20F this winter.  A small L. chinensis is totally brown. What have others experienced with these. 

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Fusca
4 minutes ago, buffy said:

I'm not sure how bud hardy they ultimately are, but I have a few Livistona saribus in the ground that are barely fazed after 20F this winter.  A small L. chinensis is totally brown. What have others experienced with these. 

I have a green petiole form of L. saribus which is what I assume you have also.  Last February I dig it up and kept it in the garage for a week since it was planted as a 3-gal just a few months before.  This year mine also went unfazed at 23° unprotected.  I think Jason (tank) had a trunking saribus survive 14° in Gainesville in 2010.

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Jtee
1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Looks great, but those are volunteer seedlings.  Livistona are all solitary palms and don't sucker.

That’s what I meant,  Brian farted for a moment. I couldnt remember the name( volunteer seedlings) so went with suckers. 

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DAVEinMB

Ok let's add confusion to the temperature debate haha. I pass these everyday on ocean blvd and figured I'd include them in the discussion. This is how they look today after the freezing rain and two dips to 19F. How warm did their little microclimate stay? I don't know. Were they covered in ice? I don't know. All i know is they are showing very very minimal foliage damage, if any. 

Western exposure, canopy from hotel, lots of concrete. 

20220221_142141.jpg

20220221_142126.jpg

20220221_142108.jpg

20220221_142049.jpg

20220221_142059.jpg

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ZPalms
1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

Ok let's add confusion to the temperature debate haha. I pass these everyday on ocean blvd and figured I'd include them in the discussion. This is how they look today after the freezing rain and two dips to 19F. How warm did their little microclimate stay? I don't know. Were they covered in ice? I don't know. All i know is they are showing very very minimal foliage damage, if any. 

Western exposure, canopy from hotel, lots of concrete. 

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how they look mostly untouched cause if freezing rain and freezing weather is usually the thing that kills them back then how much freezing rain did they even get, The building, concrete, rocks and whatever else is keeping them real nice looking, I wonder if ground temperature and cold roots makes them struggle and it's not whats happening on the surface?

Edited by ZPalms

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Jesse PNW

Well that's one heck of a microclimate.  Great place for some zone pushing. 

What's the consensus on Washingtonia compared to Livistona in terms of hardiness?  I assume Washy's grow faster and would recover from winter damage more quickly.  I assume Livistonas would handle PNW winters better but wonder how they'd fare in summer.  

Edited by Jesse PNW
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Allen
1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

Ok let's add confusion to the temperature debate haha. I pass these everyday on ocean blvd and figured I'd include them in the discussion. This is how they look today after the freezing rain and two dips to 19F. How warm did their little microclimate stay? I don't know. Were they covered in ice? I don't know. All i know is they are showing very very minimal foliage damage, if any. 

Western exposure, canopy from hotel, lots of concrete. 

 

Pretty much the best microclimate I've ever seen.  Probably at least +5F.  Remember that cold air comes down at night and that is why canopy is so important.  Cold air flows over it like rain over a umbrella

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Chester B
13 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Well that's one heck of a microclimate.  Great place for some zone pushing. 

What's the consensus on Washingtonia compared to Livistona in terms of hardiness?  I assume Washy's grow faster and would recover from winter damage more quickly.  I assume Livistonas would handle PNW winters better but wonder how they'd fare in summer.  

I've never seen a Livistona planted outside in the PNW other than my own.  Even on the southern coast you don't see Livistona but you will see big Washies plus a whole lot more.  Considering chinensis are pretty regularly found in stores you would expect to see some around as many house plants find their way outside.

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DAVEinMB

As we continue our journey of David finds chinensis in Myrtle I present to you these specimens. 

These are planted at the entryway to a housing development west of the waterway. They are very exposed but are planted next to a small pond which I'm sure helps them a bit. Pics taken today

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Alicehunter2000

2014 Polar Vortex. My nitida showed no damage after 2 days of below freezing temps. My ultimate low was 19F. Two weeks later had another prolonged freeze event with frozen rain for another 2 days. No damage to nitida but all of my chinensis got leaf fried but survived.  L. saribus got leaf fried and survived also.

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