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Dypsis Mystery

Urban Rainforest

By Urban Rainforest
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

Posted
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At one time I thought this palm may be the true Dypsis Ambositrae (it still might be) but everyone is convinced that the palm Jeff Marcus is selling as Dypsis Onilahensis is the true Abositrae. The problem with this is having grown both from seedlings they are NOT the same palm. So are any of you growing this one? I have never seen it in anyones garden. Not even in Jeff Marcus garden and thats where it came from! I have had people guess that it's some kind of weird triangle or Leptocheilos hybrid among other things. So what do you experts think it is? Just don't say Decipiens  :D . Here is a few pics from 3 years ago.

post-351-1188102896_thumb.jpg

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Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And another.

post-351-1188103079_thumb.jpg

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Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Here are a few from last year.

post-351-1188103195_thumb.jpg

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Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Another.

post-351-1188103255_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And another.

post-351-1188103350_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And onother showing the recurving new lime green frond.

post-351-1188103560_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And here are some pics taken today. It just opened a new frond and is about 6 ft. tall now.

post-351-1188103737_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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This is one of the most colorfull palms I have! Here is some of that color.

post-351-1188103886_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Lots of white too.

post-351-1188103981_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Interestingly this year it has started developing some brownish teddy bear type tomentum.

post-351-1188104118_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And one last pic. I'm really hoping someone out there can ID my palm.

Thanks,

Steve

post-351-1188104377_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
Posted

decipiens?? :D  :D

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Actually to look at this palm in person and look at Decipiens they are quite differant. The fronds on the mystery palm recurve at the top and also have a 180 degree twist, the leaflets are overlapping, and there is almost no petiole. Also my decipiens is very smooth and the mystery palm is rougher with tomentum. Also this palm is twice as fast than my Decipiens. Oh, and differant color fronds but other than that they are the same  ??? .  My Dypsis Decipiens for comparison.

post-351-1188112594_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Tyrone Grand Master

Tyrone

Posted
Posted

I reckon it's a sungrown D ambositrae. The colouring seems right. What is Jeff Marcus selling as D onilahensis? Does anyone have a pic?

regards

Tyrone

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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neoflora Mentor

neoflora

Posted
Posted

Steve, What you have is the true D. ambositrae. I have several in my nursery. One is going in my garden. Some of these are starting to show white on them. They are not as stiff as D. decipens.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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(neoflora @ Aug. 26 2007,10:23)

QUOTE
Steve, What you have is the true D. ambositrae. I have several in my nursery. One is going in my garden. Some of these are starting to show white on them. They are not as stiff as D. decipens.

YES!!! I'll go with that answer. You made my day  :D .

Thanks,

Steve

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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mppalms Proficient

mppalms

Posted
Posted

So, what is what Jeff Marcus is selling as D. ambositrae?  It looks nothing like this palm.

(I'm sure this is an old, solved mystery, but I couldn't find the answer.)

Jason

Menlo Park, CA  (U.S.A.) hillside

Min. temp Jan 2007:  28.1 deg. F (-2.2 deg. C)

Min. temp winter 2008: 34.7 deg. F (1.5 deg. C)

USDA Zone 10A since 2000

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JD in the OC Veteran

JD in the OC

Posted
Posted

I think Ron's right.

I have bought these from Floribunda too, labeled as D. onilahensis.

It sure looks a lot like the true Ambositrae that Jeff Searle showed us pictures of in habitat.  One of my 3 gallon plants has a nice turquiose hue to the leaves.  

Or, maybe its a Dypsis decipiens X ambositrae?  Do they grow in the same local?

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madagascarbob Rising Star

madagascarbob

Posted
Posted

(neoflora @ Aug. 26 2007,10:23)

QUOTE
Steve, What you have is the true D. ambositrae. I have several in my nursery. One is going in my garden. Some of these are starting to show white on them. They are not as stiff as D. decipens.

OK so then what is the fake Ambositrae ?

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bgl Grand Master

bgl

Posted
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OK, so maybe it's not decipiens then...! :D  

It so happened that I bought a few palms a couple of years ago from Floribunda under the D. onilahensis name, and seems to me they have more color than you'd normally expect in an onilahensis. I bought them in 1G pots and moved them up into 5G pots earlier this year. Here's one. It does seem a little less sturdy than Steve's though.

post-22-1188179070_thumb.jpg

Leilani Estates, 25 mls/40 km south of Hilo, Big Island of Hawai'i. Elevation 880 ft/270 m. Average rainfall 140 inches/3550 mm

 

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Bo, I have about 50 of those as well. I knew soon as I opened the box that they were not Onilahensis as they had a heel and lots of color varying from red to hot pink and purple. I also knew that I wanted more of whatever it was so I ordered some more from jeff as Onilahensis and it was the same thing again. Here is a pic of one last year right after I got it. I do not believe we are going to have the answers to many of these Dypsis Mysteries for years to come until they get a lot bigger but to me that is what keeps it exciting!

Steve

post-351-1188192074_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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And here is a close up.

post-351-1188192205_thumb.jpg

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Matt in SD Veteran

Matt in SD

Posted
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Hi Steve,

That's an awesom palm.  I agree that it looks like the photos of ambositrae at that stage.  But I remember when we discussed it, you said when it was younger, the seedling didn't really look like the supposed true ambositrae that's going around now (real narrow leaflets, very similar to the onilahensis that Jeff marcus is selling).  That is looked more like a decipiens seedling.  So if that's true I think it must be something else.  It really looks like a cross between an D decipiens and a D decaryi, I remember someone here suggested that possibility.  But who knows, it sure looks like ambositrae now which is a good thing.

Matt

San Diego

0.6 Acres of a south facing, gently sloped dirt pile, soon to be impenetrable jungle

East of Mount Soledad, in the biggest cold sink in San Diego County.

Zone 10a (I hope), Sunset 24

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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Thanks Matt, Your right, the seedlings of the two palms did not match up at all. I've told the history of this palm before but there are a lot of new members so here goes again. I ordered a bunch of Dypsis Decipiens years ago from Jeff at Floribunda. Before he sent the order he called and asked if I would like some red stem Decipiens. I was like thats a no brainer, throw em in. Well when I opened the box up the red stem ones were so differant that you could easily pick them out from the rest. They grew differantly too with fronds that would recurve so much that sometimes half the frond would be buried in potting soil. At this stage they were bright red and the top of the spear was jet black. I had about 10 or 12 and grew them up into 5 gals. Thats when I got stupid  :o . Everybody that saw them wanted to buy them and I sold all except the one I have. This was at the time when Kent Houser was planting Jeff Brusseue's garden and he got a couple. Interestingly I did not see this palm in Jeff's garden so I don't know what happened. Dennis willoughby picked up a couple and I sold the rest to random people. I am just going to take pics every year until we figure it out. Surely I was'nt the only one who got these from Jeff  ??? . There must be one in someones garden somewhere. I was talking to Jeff about this palm and he said he wished he had saved one for himself. So far it has remained a single trunk palm which I like but it will be interesting to see if it splits in the future.

Steve

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Caryota_gigas Experienced

Caryota_gigas

Posted
Posted

Over here in Kiwi land I have a similar conundrum. I got the palm on the left as a D. leptocheilos and the right one as D. ambositrae. The one on the right I currently believe to be true, but the one on the left is no D. leptocheilos, as these do not even survive outdoors where I am, yet this plant does. It also looks purpley in colour like the so called D. onilhensis in the picture above, but is not one of those either. So what is it...

post-636-1188248247_thumb.jpg

Michael

Auckland

New Zealand

www.nznikau.com

http://nzpalmandcycad.com

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Greg in Lake Forest CA Explorer

Greg in Lake Forest CA

Posted
Posted

Steve, while it certainly looks like a beefed up ambositrae, it strikes me as possibly Dypsis pumila.

What do you think?

Greg in Lake Forest, CA

Zone 10

Occasional frost

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Gtlevine Grand Master

Gtlevine

Posted
Posted

Steve, I am quite sure your palm is a Dypsis Decipians as I have seen both mature and young palms of Dypsis Ambositrae in Madagascar and it is quite easy to recognize them. I am going to pull up a photo later today and post what a real Ambositrae looks like that I photographed in Madagascar, hopefully it will clear this up.

Gary

Rock Ridge Ranch

South Escondido

5 miles ENE Rancho Bernardo

33.06N 117W, Elevation 971 Feet

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MattyB Grand Master

MattyB

Posted
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(Greg in Lake Forest, CA @ Aug. 27 2007,14:07)

QUOTE
Steve, while it certainly looks like a beefed up ambositrae, it strikes me as possibly Dypsis pumila.

What do you think?

Hasn't it been many years since D. pumilla has even been seen?  That would be awesome though.  I want one.  I want one of everything though.

Matt Bradford

"Manambe Lavaka"

Spring Valley, CA (8.5 miles inland from San Diego Bay)

10B on the hill (635 ft. elevation)

9B in the canyon (520 ft. elevation)

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Jason in Orlando Experienced

Jason in Orlando

Posted
Posted

Michael, the palm on the left looks like it could be either D. lanceolata or D. "Mayotte."  Can't remember if either or both have heels (not in a position to go out and look either...).  Leaflets look more like D. lanceolata.

Jason

Skell's Bells

 

 

Inland Central Florida, 28N, 81W. Humid-subtropical climate with occasional frosts and freezes. Zone 9b.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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(Greg in Lake Forest, CA @ Aug. 27 2007,17:07)

QUOTE
Steve, while it certainly looks like a beefed up ambositrae, it strikes me as possibly Dypsis pumila.

What do you think?

Not sure Greg although I don't recall seeing all that red in pics I've seen of Pumila.

Steve

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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(Gtlevine @ Aug. 27 2007,18:04)

QUOTE
Steve, I am quite sure your palm is a Dypsis Decipians as I have seen both mature and young palms of Dypsis Ambositrae in Madagascar and it is quite easy to recognize them. I am going to pull up a photo later today and post what a real Ambositrae looks like that I photographed in Madagascar, hopefully it will clear this up.

Gary

Gary, I'm not sure what I have. Thats why I posted this message. It did seem to match pics that Jeff Searle posted from his trip to Madagascar. Having grown and seen hundreds of Dypsis Decipiens in many gardens here and in Hawaii I do not believe it to be Decipiens. As I said before except for the other ones I had and sold I have not seen this palm anywhere. I would love to see your pic of the true Ambositrae in habitat. I have about 50 of the palm that Floribunda is selling as onilahensis that suposedly is the real deal.

Steve

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Jeff Searle Grand Master

Jeff Searle

Posted
Posted

I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the fun......... :D

Jeff

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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Urban Rainforest Grand Master

Urban Rainforest

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(Jeff Searle @ Aug. 27 2007,20:47)

QUOTE
I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the fun......... :D

Jeff

What ? And miss out on another Dypsis mystery meltdown!BRB...I think I need a strong drink to sort all this out  :o

Steve

Urban Rainforest Palms,Cycads and Exotics. Were in San Diego Ca. about 5 miles from the beach on Tecolote canyon. It seems to be an ideal growing climate with moderate temps. and very little frost. Vacation Rental in Leilani Estates, big island Hi PM me if interested in staying there.

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Gtlevine Grand Master

Gtlevine

Posted
Posted

As promissed, here are two views of the true Ambositrae in the botanical garden of Tana. Once you have seen this palm you can recognize it. Some of the seedlings shown like Bo's and a couple others look like Ambositrae, but your big plant has leaves just like Decipians, the Ambositrae's I have seen all have a greener and more delicate leaf as Bo describes, but then again, I am far from any kind of expert. I do know I brought back true Ambositrae seed last April, so I will have them.

DSC_0116.jpg

DSC_0117.jpg

Gary

Rock Ridge Ranch

South Escondido

5 miles ENE Rancho Bernardo

33.06N 117W, Elevation 971 Feet

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Greg in Lake Forest CA Explorer

Greg in Lake Forest CA

Posted
Posted

This true ambositrae is really a good palm in So. Cal., I'm growing a bunch as well.

Here is the only photo of Dypsis pumila I've seen, doesn't look quite right, but nonetheless, I want one:

post-16-1188267832_thumb.jpg

Greg in Lake Forest, CA

Zone 10

Occasional frost

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