Germination Help

[Borderzoner]

I am in the process of germinating p. dactylifera (from medjool dates),  p. roebelenii,  s. romanzoffiana, and jubaea chilensis. 

First I soaked all seeds in tap water around 70F for a couple days, changing it as needed. Then I set them out to halfway dry at air temp for about 8 hours. Then I put them all in water with some 1% peroxide for 2 days, at about 75-80 degrees. Today I just set them in moist paper towels at room temp ( about 70F).. the point of all of this presumably was to help break down germination inhibitors and saturate the seeds. I didn't want to boil them or anything.. but now they are awaiting further action!

In the past I have had pretty poor success with sprouting medjool seeds (it may have been due to insufficient heat or using straight peat moss..?). I have had good success sprouting other palms, like fresh phoenix canary and butias in loam/soil. However, I have no experience with the others I am currently trying.

With the queen palm seeds, I scrubbed off the yellow sticky pulp as part of the processing. . The wine palm seeds, I could only crack one open today. More were rattling before all the soaking, but I didn't want to risk crushing embryos because they aren't rattling as much now, although they are all floating still.

The pygmy date seeds were most concerning.. very few ( 10 out of 100) sank after soaking for days. They still had on the outer seed coats or whatever (the dark brown coat that holds in the fruit pulp.. I think the pulps were kind of dry, also).. So they must have been dried out for some time before I got them.. anyway, after removing that outer coat and the pulp residues, the actual seeds did indeed sink, although they are light brown in color (not darker brown like a fresh one would be). 

My questions are,

Are the pygmy date and jubaea chilensis seeds still viable? Can they be dried out in storage alright, for perhaps a few months or a year, and still retain good viability?

And what are the best approaches to germinate all these species (p. dactylifera, p. roebelenii, s. romanzoffiana, and j. chilensis) from this point, mostly concerning heat and medium requirements (can these species sprout alright in temperatures between 70-82F, and what is the best mix or medium from these: perlite, peat moss, potting mix, soil, sand? plant them shallow, a bit deeper?)

Trying to stay away from a heat mat if possible.. although I wouldn't want to forfeit germination rates! There is a small unheated spot that does stay 80-85F in the day..

Edited February 8, 2022 by Borderzoner

[Fusca]

11 hours ago, Borderzoner said:

My questions are,

Are the pygmy date and jubaea chilensis seeds still viable? Can they be dried out in storage alright, for perhaps a few months or a year, and still retain good viability?

And what are the best approaches to germinate all these species (p. dactylifera, p. roebelenii, s. romanzoffiana, and j. chilensis) from this point, mostly concerning heat and medium requirements (can these species sprout alright in temperatures between 70-82F, and what is the best mix or medium from these: perlite, peat moss, potting mix, soil, sand? plant them shallow, a bit deeper?)

Trying to stay away from a heat mat if possible.. although I wouldn't want to forfeit germination rates! There is a small unheated spot that does stay 80-85F in the day.

Welcome to Palmtalk!  Most palm seeds (including the ones you mention) germinate best with supplemental bottom heat greater than 80°F - especially during winter months.  I have had success placing ziplock baggies or community pots on top of my satellite TV box.  You can also try using the top of a water heater.  My experience with Jubaea is that they seem to like periods of high heat and cool down cycles.  In Texas I have planted Jubaea seeds in my flower beds outside in November and had sprouts by March.  As far as your pygmy date palm seeds (Phoenix roebelenii) they are a dioecious species so a male palm is needed to pollinate the female.  There's always the risk of obtaining unpollinated fruits which won't germinate.  Viable seeds can still float if the fruit is left on which might be the case with your pygmy date seeds.  Jubaea seeds can also float due to air trapped inside the nut surrounding the embryo (they will rattle when you shake).  Good luck!

[8BPalms]

4 hours ago, Fusca said:

Welcome to Palmtalk!  Most palm seeds (including the ones you mention) germinate best with supplemental bottom heat greater than 80°F - especially during winter months.  I have had success placing ziplock baggies or community pots on top of my satellite TV box.  You can also try using the top of a water heater.  My experience with Jubaea is that they seem to like periods of high heat and cool down cycles.  In Texas I have planted Jubaea seeds in my flower beds outside in November and had sprouts by March.  As far as your pygmy date palm seeds (Phoenix roebelenii) they are a dioecious species so a male palm is needed to pollinate the female.  There's always the risk of obtaining unpollinated fruits which won't germinate.  Viable seeds can still float if the fruit is left on which might be the case with your pygmy date seeds.  Jubaea seeds can also float due to air trapped inside the nut surrounding the embryo (they will rattle when you shake).  Good luck!

Thank you! I always get a little nervous when I have to use heat mats inside, not just because of potential fire hazard, but I have had batches of seeds rot from fungus above 80 degrees.. but, they weren't palms, and were probably too damp anyway..

When you say you put seeds in ziplock bags on a water heater/tv box, do you leave the bags open or cracked at all for gas exchange? Also what medium do you use in these bags, and community pots? And do you put plastic over the pots or leave them open?

And how deep do you plant these palm seeds for best germination?

Also if I were to try the 'paper towel in a baggie' method, would it benefit to dampen the towels with 1% peroxide instead of just plain water (more oxygen, more sterile)??

I know some things sprout like crazy with peroxide, others not any better, or even worse..

And I'm aware some things like to sprout better with humics like peat, coir, or rotten log compost... Others best in sand or perlite.. I was thinking about using a general 50/50 mix of humics and inerts for palms...

After I take the pulp off the roebelinni seeds, and they sink, is that generally a good sign? They are still discolored light brown. Not sure how they were stored prior.

I had a feeling jubaea might need something like a stratification, given their extreme cold tolerance and all.. I have been taking them inside and out, soaking 70-80F in peroxide water for a day and then in 35-60F outside in rainwater for a day, and so on.. after couple days I will put them in a mix under some heat. you think this would help germinate quicker (instead of leaving them outside for the remainder of the winter)? 

Thanks!

Edited February 8, 2022 by 8BPalms

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, 8BPalms said:

Thank you! I always get a little nervous when I have to use heat mats inside, not just because of potential fire hazard, but I have had batches of seeds rot from fungus above 80 degrees.. but, they weren't palms, and were probably too damp anyway..

When you say you put seeds in ziplock bags on a water heater/tv box, do you leave the bags open or cracked at all for gas exchange? Also what medium do you use in these bags, and community pots? And do you put plastic over the pots or leave them open?

And how deep do you plant these palm seeds for best germination?

Also if I were to try the 'paper towel in a baggie' method, would it benefit to dampen the towels with 1% peroxide instead of just plain water (more oxygen, more sterile)??

I know some things sprout like crazy with peroxide, others not any better, or even worse..

And I'm aware some things like to sprout better with humics like peat, coir, or rotten log compost... Others best in sand or perlite.. I was thinking about using a general 50/50 mix of humics and inerts for palms...

After I take the pulp off the roebelinni seeds, and they sink, is that generally a good sign? They are still discolored light brown. Not sure how they were stored prior.

I had a feeling jubaea might need something like a stratification, given their extreme cold tolerance and all.. I have been taking them inside and out, soaking 70-80F in peroxide water for a day and then in 35-60F outside in rainwater for a day, and so on.. after couple days I will put them in a mix under some heat. you think this would help germinate quicker (instead of leaving them outside for the remainder of the winter)? 

Thanks!

When I use baggies I zip them up and leave it closed to keep moisture in.  I use sphagnum moss and perlite in the baggie kept moist, not wet by wringing out as much water as possible.  I've not used the peroxide.  For community pots I use a well draining mix (not potting soil) and I often cover as well when indoors.  Mix varies depending on species but with the species mentioned I would use a simple mix of Turface MVP and garden soil.  Phoenix roebelenii seeds have a long shelf life and sinking after cleaning off the fruit is a good sign but not a guarantee.

[teddytn]

I think most people have better luck with Trachycarpus at ambient temp. I’m sure there’s other species that do well germinating at lower temps. I personally have always started all seeds whether in community pots or baggie method with bottom heat from a heat mat. At first I was a little cautious with leaving a heating mat on, I keep it plugged into a surge strip and just don’t think about it anymore honestly. This go around I’ve had 2 heat mats on continuously for 3 months with no problems. I think problems can happen with heat mats if the outer skin of it develops cracks when old and any moisture may get in. I’ve always been cognizant of that and water in my sink and then let all the community pots drain on top of a towel before putting back on the mat. You can somewhat control the temperature the seeds get exposed to if you don’t have a heat mat with a temperature control (which I don’t) by raising a certain pot off the mat or even using a shallower or deeper pot. I have always kept all community pots covered with plastic and all baggies sealed. Even newly emerged seedlings I like to keep a gallon bag over the pot while inside to keep the humidity up, and prevent the need for multi week watering. 

[8BPalms]

This is a thought.. I gather used coffee grounds in quantity and even a small pile outside will get HOT in the winter, like at a minimum 80 degrees and I've had big mounds get very hot (130+)(steaming) in the center, even just a few inches under the surface, and stay that way as long as they are 'topped off' regularly. I do remember constructing a small greenhouse/ propagator in the top of a giant coffee/mulch mound one winter, and it actually worked well without being completely sealed. It got to 19F that winter and seeds were still germinating inside, unaffected. Including mangos. I actually did sprout some palm seeds in there, but they were just sabals or something.. I might set that back up, shortly ..

The only thing is the grounds get innoculated by fungi, I think mainly some type of fusarium. I don't know if this could be devastating to some palm sprouts, if it came in proximity to a root?)

[oasis371]

I am germinating 25 Jubaea seeds in a mix of orchid bark and perlite.  My heating source is on top of my basement LED fixtures, directly beneath the steam heating pipes. So temps are around 90-95 by day and 75-80 by night.  First time I am germinating these. Previous palm germinating experience limited to Cocos, Washys, Trachys ,and Phoenix.

[Borderzoner]

16 hours ago, oasis371 said:

I am germinating 25 Jubaea seeds in a mix of orchid bark and perlite.  My heating source is on top of my basement LED fixtures, directly beneath the steam heating pipes. So temps are around 90-95 by day and 75-80 by night.  First time I am germinating these. Previous palm germinating experience limited to Cocos, Washys, Trachys ,and Phoenix.

Did you feel the need to crack the jubaeas out their nuts?

And do phoenix generally have better success fresh or dried for a bit?

[Borderzoner]

Do y'all ever soak seeds in fertilizer water or fertilize them immediately in a substrate to induce quicker sprouting?       (Ovbiously.. pH balanced..)

Citrus can often take pretty strong fertilizer from just a seed, where papayas and mangos could never tolerate it.. might have to do partly with salt sensitivities...palms I feel like would usually respond well though? Is it the ammonia/urea and salts that help irritate the seeds to sprout? 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Borderzoner

[oasis371]

Not sure about the Phoenix, most palms are not known for seed viability, Phoenix may be be different due to desert origins of many of their species. No, I did not crack open the nuts on the Jubaea.

[8BPalms]

Did I pick this too early (today)?? After pulp is gone the nuts are brown, but the eyes are still green!? It's s. rom.

Same sized seeds as those from yellow fruit, but the yellow ones are a bit heavier, but have also been soaking..

[8BPalms]

I've got to know,, are they even viable? I don't like how the eyes are green and

[8BPalms]

I was kind of trippin. Poked the eyes out and the sockets are brown.

I did indeed pick them probably a week or two before they would start to turn yellow. most are starting to fade off the green slightly. So apparently this is a better time to germinate than if they were yellow/orange? I take ALL the pulp off every seed anyway, does it really matter in terms of viability/germination?

Would it be smart to leave the seeds on the whole panicle for a few days to suck up anything they need? I was going to actually submerge the whole panicle in water for a couple days..? I don't think the fruits will continue to ripen after being picked?

One last consideration- apparently this is the first time this mother palm has ever fruited, and they've had it in the ground 12 years. It was probably already mature or nearly so when they planted it back then, now it is at least 30 ft tall. Does have some trunk scarring at the bottom. May have seen 14-15F. Definitely has seen 18-19F. Not a hybrid (although I'm sure hoping a butia in the area hybridized these seeds!!)

Edited February 12, 2022 by 8BPalms

[JLM]

20 minutes ago, 8BPalms said:

I was kind of trippin. Poked the eyes out and the sockets are brown.

I did indeed pick them probably a week or two before they would start to turn yellow. most are starting to fade off the green slightly. So apparently this is a better time to germinate than if they were yellow/orange? I take ALL the pulp off every seed anyway, does it really matter in terms of viability/germination?

Would it be smart to leave the seeds on the whole panicle for a few days to suck up anything they need? I was going to actually submerge the whole panicle in water for a couple days..? I don't think the fruits will continue to ripen after being picked?

One last consideration- apparently this is the first time this mother palm has ever fruited, and they've had it in the ground 12 years. It was probably already mature or nearly so when they planted it back then, now it is at least 30 ft tall. Does have some trunk scarring at the bottom. May have seen 14-15F. Definitely has seen 18-19F. Not a hybrid (although I'm sure hoping a butia in the area hybridized these seeds!!)

If you're talking about s romanzoffiana, i germinated one of mine on a cable box. The fruit was ripe and was on the ground when i picked them up, otherwise i wouldnt have had any of the seeds. The tree was very tall.

[8BPalms]

Well I was most anxious about the stage of the fruit- they are still green, and I don't know how viable the seeds will be..?

[Fusca]

10 hours ago, 8BPalms said:

Did I pick this too early (today)?? After pulp is gone the nuts are brown, but the eyes are still green!? It's s. rom.

Same sized seeds as those from yellow fruit, but the yellow ones are a bit heavier, but have also been soaking..

Supposedly they might actually germinate better from immature fruit!  I read that somewhere but wasn't the case in my experience.  With most palm species it's best to wait until the fruit changes to a different color and begins to drop off on its own, but you can probably still germinate some of these.  With Syagrus romanzoffiana you'll soon have plenty of additional seeds to work with!

[8BPalms]

35 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Supposedly they might actually germinate better from immature fruit!  I read that somewhere but wasn't the case in my experience.  With most palm species it's best to wait until the fruit changes to a different color and begins to drop off on its own, but you can probably still germinate some of these.  With Syagrus romanzoffiana you'll soon have plenty of additional seeds to work with!

Damn. I saw conflicting info about using green seeds with s.r., but most seemed to recommend it. I found a study that said intermediate ripeness is most ideal: they rated green as immature, yellow-intermediate, orange-ripe. But 'green' in their study had very low germination, so I don't understand why people would recommend using green syagrus seeds.. You don't think very many of these will sprout? Can the fruit ripen any more off the tree?

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, 8BPalms said:

Damn. I saw conflicting info about using green seeds with s.r., but most seemed to recommend it. I found a study that said intermediate ripeness is most ideal: they rated green as immature, yellow-intermediate, orange-ripe. But 'green' in their study had very low germination, so I don't understand why people would recommend using green syagrus seeds.. You don't think very many of these will sprout? Can the fruit ripen any more off the tree?

I don't know for sure but seems to me that the fruit can ripen more after harvesting.  Better question is can the embryo develop more after harvesting which is doubtful.  My "experiment" wasn't very scientific - I collected 4 orange fruits and 4 green fruits from neighboring trees.  I cleaned all fruits and soaked seeds overnight.  I planted in separate community pots with the same medium and got 2 germinations from the ripe seed and zero from the unripe.  Maybe a different technique makes a difference with the green fruit?

 

[8BPalms]

48 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I don't know for sure but seems to me that the fruit can ripen more after harvesting.  Better question is can the embryo develop more after harvesting which is doubtful.  My "experiment" wasn't very scientific - I collected 4 orange fruits and 4 green fruits from neighboring trees.  I cleaned all fruits and soaked seeds overnight.  I planted in separate community pots with the same medium and got 2 germinations from the ripe seed and zero from the unripe.  Maybe a different technique makes a difference with the green fruit?

 

Darn. Well I guess we'll see if these sprout. The effort involved though..

I have propagation liner trays outside trenched in on a sunny hill where the surface ground temp is 90-105 in full sun, for about half the day or so, on sunny days/about every other day. They have vented bags over them and rain protection in case of a storm. The only problem is the air temp can be 45-70F outside when the ground temp is 80-100F. Which means after the sun goes down it won't be that hot anymore,  anywhere 40-75F. And it won't heat up outside consistently until late March.. can queen seeds still germinate alright under these fluctuation conditions? They will have reliable 85-100F heat when the hill is sunny for 6 hours or so unless it's overcast. Or do they *need* consistent heat in the 80s and 90s to sprout??

Edited February 12, 2022 by 8BPalms

[8BPalms]

If it reaches 98-106F in the hottest time of the day will that kill them? What is the upper range cutoff temp?

Thanks

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, 8BPalms said:

If it reaches 98-106F in the hottest time of the day will that kill them? What is the upper range cutoff temp?

Thanks

No problem with those temperatures but might accelerate drying out of medium.

[Than]

I have two heat mats on, 24/7 for almost 3 months now. 

I have a question about using pure perlite (or almost pure) in community pots in a propagator. How often do you water it to keep it moist? I have difficulty telling when perlite is too dry.

[Scott W]

"Queen palm seeds to be used for propagation should be half ripe to fully ripe with the fruit pulp removed. Soaking the cleaned seeds in water for two days prior to planting in a well-drained, but uniformly moist potting soil can improve germination in this species. Queen palm seed germinates slowly and erratically, taking from six weeks to six months. As with most palm species, high temperatures (90–95°F) are required for seed germination"

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ST609

 

"Seed from green fruits of queen palm (Syagrus romanzoffiana) germinate better than seed from half-ripe or ripe seed (Broschat and Donselman 1987), perhaps due to inhibitors in the fruit."

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/ep238

 

Yeah, conflicting information for sure.  I've never tried to germinate green queen seed, always half ripe to fully ripe.  I have seed from three different queens germinating in here.  Had the heat mats at 95f but I think that is just for germination as I lost a few that cooked when they sent their radicle down....so backed it down to 88f.

 

[Fallen Munk]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:32 PM, 8BPalms said:

This is a thought.. I gather used coffee grounds in quantity and even a small pile outside will get HOT in the winter, like at a minimum 80 degrees and I've had big mounds get very hot (130+)(steaming) in the center, even just a few inches under the surface, and stay that way as long as they are 'topped off' regularly. I do remember constructing a small greenhouse/ propagator in the top of a giant coffee/mulch mound one winter, and it actually worked well

Studies show that caffeine from used coffee grounds inhibits germination. 

[GoatLockerGuns]

13 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Studies show that caffeine from used coffee grounds inhibits germination. 

There have been a number of studies on the effect that caffeine has on the germination of various species that would suggest this.  That is why it is no longer recommended to use coffee grounds as compost in your garden.  Attached is a paper suggesting the negative effect of caffeine on Vigna subterranean germination.  As I understand it (and I am definitely no expert), the general thinking is that those plants that produce substances that act as stimulants in humans (i.e., coffee, tobacco, coca, etc.), produce these substances as a survival mechanism.  Supposedly their growth habitat in the wild is crowded (i.e., dense forest/jungle), and when they drop their leaves into the surrounding area, these compounds act as germination inhibitors to prevent/limit other plants from growing nearby as they decompose (thus, the coffee, tobacco, or coca plant gets a competitive advantage when it comes to forest under-story "real estate").  At least, that is how I understand it.

 

On 2/27/2022 at 7:59 AM, Scott W said:

Seed from green fruits of queen palm (Syagrus romanzoffiana) germinate better than seed from half-ripe or ripe seed (Broschat and Donselman 1987), perhaps due to inhibitors in the fruit.

I have successfully germinated Syagrus romanzoffiana from green fruits.  From experience, I cannot say that is "better" than from ripe fruit; however, it definitely can be done.  I mean, at least you know you are using truly "fresh" seed when the fruits are still green.  You just need to make sure that the actual seed inside has darkened (i.e., turned brown or black).  I have also successfully germinated Sabal mexicana from green fruit.

Caffienepaper.pdf

[Fallen Munk]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:12 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

That is why it is no longer recommended to use coffee grounds as compost in your garden. 

Been saying that for years but apparently anecdotes are stronger than actual science.

[GoatLockerGuns]

13 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Been saying that for years but apparently anecdotes are stronger than actual science.

Although, If you already had the palms/plants you wanted growing nicely, a few coffee grounds around them might act a natural weed preventative.  According to this research. you would then be using caffeine for one of its natural indented purposes.

[8BPalms]

On 3/2/2022 at 6:44 PM, Fallen Munk said:

Been saying that for years but apparently anecdotes are stronger than actual science.

I was using the grounds in terms of germination just as a heat source. I made a crater in the top of the mound and put a buffer layer of leaves down, then cracked bags of seeds in their own medium, and a cracked glass cover on top. It was 25F outside the glass and still at least 75-85 inside!

[8BPalms]

On 3/3/2022 at 8:03 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Although, If you already had the palms/plants you wanted growing nicely, a few coffee grounds around them might act a natural weed preventative.  According to this research. you would then be using caffeine for one of its natural indented purposes.

The big one was the small one's size two years ago.  That is from constant mounding with leaves and used coffee grounds, about 50/50 of each! It may stunt smaller plants for a small amount of time, till it has rained through a couple times.

[8BPalms]

Also this is a ravenea riv comparison about 2 years from the smaller size on the left. It is on a water bank in very moist leaf compost mound. Not much coffee grounds but I may start mounding soon and see what happens. The leaves do get fried most winters. How big you guys think it might get??

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 hour ago, 8BPalms said:

It may stunt smaller plants for a small amount of time, till it has rained through a couple times.

Yeah, all of the literature I have read refers to caffeine preventing germination.  If you already have a plant or germinated seedling planted, then the caffeine in the coffee grounds may not be as much of an issue.  Also, I think the jury is still out on the amount of caffeine that actually remains in "spent" coffee grounds.  The filtering process to make coffee may transfer much of it to the coffee, and probably dilutes (at some of it) from the remaining coffee grounds.  Still, I do not use it my compost just to be on the safe side.  I mean, there is so much leftover organic kitchen waste, I do not think some missing coffee grounds from mix really matters.

[8BPalms]

14 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Yeah, all of the literature I have read refers to caffeine preventing germination.  If you already have a plant or germinated seedling planted, then the caffeine in the coffee grounds may not be as much of an issue.  Also, I think the jury is still out on the amount of caffeine that actually remains in "spent" coffee grounds.  The filtering process to make coffee may transfer much of it to the coffee, and probably dilutes (at some of it) from the remaining coffee grounds.  Still, I do not use it my compost just to be on the safe side.  I mean, there is so much leftover organic kitchen waste, I do not think some missing coffee grounds from mix really matters.

There are definitely considerations using coffee grounds. When fresh they attract fusarium, maggots and dog vomit slime mold, get very hot in a mound, sludge when wet and cake when dry, release a lot of tannins and some caffeine (in used grounds), and can stunt small plants for a while.  However these cons pretty much go away after a few months (especially if you have a lot rain). When they are broken down more and worms start processing the grounds turn into something like peat, similar to sphagnum peat but richer. Sometimes it can be fluffy like coir, but not as 'clean' (leaves an organic residue). This is probably after 9-12 months sitting outside. It is very rich as this point almost like Black Kow and is very helpful food for your plants, but low in at least nitrogen and some other nutrients, and probably still best mixed or layered with other mulch. I normally throw a lot of limestone and granulated fertilizer on top wherever there are significant amounts of coffee grounds. I assure it will greatly enhance sandy and break down clay soils, like other mulch will but perhaps even better over time, and is free! 

[Than]

On 2/9/2022 at 3:58 AM, teddytn said:

I think most people have better luck with Trachycarpus at ambient temp. I’m sure there’s other species that do well germinating at lower temps. I personally have always started all seeds whether in community pots or baggie method with bottom heat from a heat mat. At first I was a little cautious with leaving a heating mat on, I keep it plugged into a surge strip and just don’t think about it anymore honestly. This go around I’ve had 2 heat mats on continuously for 3 months with no problems. I think problems can happen with heat mats if the outer skin of it develops cracks when old and any moisture may get in. I’ve always been cognizant of that and water in my sink and then let all the community pots drain on top of a towel before putting back on the mat. You can somewhat control the temperature the seeds get exposed to if you don’t have a heat mat with a temperature control (which I don’t) by raising a certain pot off the mat or even using a shallower or deeper pot. I have always kept all community pots covered with plastic and all baggies sealed. Even newly emerged seedlings I like to keep a gallon bag over the pot while inside to keep the humidity up, and prevent the need for multi week watering. 

Why not place an aluminium (or aluminum in the US) tray on the mat first? That's gonna give you piece of mind.

[Scott W]

1 hour ago, ego said:

Why not place an aluminium (or aluminum in the US) tray on the mat first? That's gonna give you piece of mind.

That's what I have done, using the extra wide foil so as to not use multiple pieces.

[Than]

3 hours ago, Scott W said:

That's what I have done, using the extra wide foil so as to not use multiple pieces.

Do you still spill water on the heat mat sometimes?

[Scott W]

1 hour ago, ego said:

Do you still spill water on the heat mat sometimes?

It's under five inches of dirt.  I'm sure water still gets to though, as I deep water the beds every so often.

[8BPalms]

Is it okay if the medium dries out sometimes, before the seeds actually sprout? I don't want to rot/damp them off, but if drying out for a little bit is worse, then I'd rather overwater sometimes (still with good drainage of course)

[8BPalms]

The medium is Coco coir, sphagnum peat, sand, earthworm castings, limestone. Full sun for 5-6 hours. I did not have perlite on hand. I was thinking about fertilizing, as sometimes it induces germination

[8BPalms]

This next round of ~300 syagrus will be in mostly perlite and Coco coir, does that sound best, or the mix above, or something else?

[8BPalms]

Hey I had some batch of green/yellows that were fermenting in water (the fruit was fermenting) for a week or so, this won't affect seed viability will it? (Will anaerobic bacteria from rotting fruit find their way into the seeds easily?)