Some specimens are bluer than other

[Phoenikakias]

I rember  having seen in this forum picture a Phoenix theophrasti specimen growing in the Kopsick Palm Arboretum, which has an attractive pale green - blue color, which is not that common in the sp. Instantly came in to my mind a local specimen with exactly same color. Bear in mind please that in the same area there is a group planting of 13 individuals, having greener foliage. So imo it is not a matter of the particular growth conditions but rather of genetics. Former it really stands out!

[sonoranfans]

Hello Konstantios!  I hope you are well.  I think part of this color might be genetic but also we should remember that blue palms often show more wax(blue) in a more dry climate.  I have seen chamaerops cerifera(?) go from mostly powder blue to light green with almost no blue, the same plant.  The function of the wax is to control heat by reflecting a larger percentage of incident sunlight.  This rflection slows down chlorophyll production and the leaf transpiration and reduces water loss and heat/drought stress.  But I also know there are genetic variations in palms like bake armata and claras, in full sun they persist at different degrees of light blue.  Perhaps a look in the native habitat would be best as they would be in the same climate and thus color variation would perhaps be entirely generic.

[tim_brissy_13]

11 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Hello Konstantios!  I hope you are well.  I think part of this color might be genetic but also we should remember that blue palms often show more wax(blue) in a more dry climate.  I have seen chamaerops cerifera(?) go from mostly powder blue to light green with almost no blue, the same plant.  The function of the wax is to control heat by reflecting a larger percentage of incident sunlight.  This rflection slows down chlorophyll production and the leaf transpiration and reduces water loss and heat/drought stress.  But I also know there are genetic variations in palms like bake armata and claras, in full sun they persist at different degrees of light blue.  Perhaps a look in the native habitat would be best as they would be in the same climate and thus color variation would perhaps be entirely generic.

I’ve always thought this was the case and seen some evidence that drier climates produce bluer or more silver specimens. On the flip side, the bluest and most silver specimens I’ve even seen of many species were at either Nong Nooch or Gardens by the Bay, both of which have truly tropical climates. I’ve always wondered how they did it; do they hand pick juvenile specimens which exhibit certain traits or is there perhaps some cultivation secret like fertiliser or soil conditions?

[sonoranfans]

12 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I’ve always thought this was the case and seen some evidence that drier climates produce bluer or more silver specimens. On the flip side, the bluest and most silver specimens I’ve even seen of many species were at either Nong Nooch or Gardens by the Bay, both of which have truly tropical climates. I’ve always wondered how they did it; do they hand pick juvenile specimens which exhibit certain traits or is there perhaps some cultivation secret like fertiliser or soil conditions?

Copernicia hospita's are very blue in florida(and nong nooch), they can match the armatas I had in arizona.  I have 3 small hospita from the same mother, all are quite blue, but I have seen a lot of greenish blue ones, so selection can help, no doubt.  Dactyliferas in arizona are not all super light blue, but there are examples that are remarkable.   Brahea armata or p. dactylifera not so much in florida.  I have yet to see a comparable blue dactylifera here 11 years in.  The blue protects against excess water loss in a dry season as well, but at the cost of lower photosynthesis.  This is why I said "some species".  Many blue cycads prefer the dry /hot weather of arizona to florida as well.  I think the extended dry seasons in southeast asia do support some drought resistant blue palms.  I expect that palms adapt, over millenia and over seasonal changes.  Some of my (6) amatas would go slightly green in winter in arizona, probably shedding wax, but they would "blue up" in the spring heat.  When a palm looks really blue, very little of the light you see has entered the pallisade mesophyll where chlorophyll exists.  But if the sunlight transmits though the leaf a green tinge is evident, even on hospitas or armatas.  Position a leaf between observer and the sun and see the difference.  Photograph with the sun at your back or at night and the blue/silver will be enhanced but if you are looking towards the sun, the blue will be less evident.   

[Palmarum]

Back in high school, I used to volunteer at Flamingo Gardens, mostly back in the garden's nursery. At the time, one of their pride and joy's was a grouping of Phoenix theophrasti that were grown from wild collected seed and were part of a world-wide distribution program. It was a square block of three-gallon plants, numbering about fifty.

The look of these plants were stunning and I can't ever forget them. When the sun was shining, they were glowing with silver-blue foliage and bright orange-yellow spines. The leaves looked white compared to the black ground cloth. They were so unique and stood out among everything else grown nearby. They were coveted and guarded among the staff as none of them were allowed to go to the garden shop or plant sales to be sold, which I think was part of the distribution deal. They had to be 'used in the garden' in one way or another. I do not remember what became of them. They were grown and kept in the same block for the longest time.

Where ever the seed came from, every plant had the same color variation. When looking back, I would be surprised how silver-blue they were with our humidity and rain fall.

Ryan

[Fusca]

Interesting topic.  Here is a pic of the theophrasti at Kopsick (not my photo) which looks incredibly blue.

Here is a pic of the same palm in the early afternoon this past October.  Doesn't look nearly as blue with the sun shining on it.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Fusca

[iDesign]

I wonder if it's a lighting difference, or perhaps camera settings?

Here is a Photoshop-tweaked version of your photo... not quite a match, but perhaps their camera (or Photoshop) is adjusting the colors somewhat? At a minimum, your camera has more saturation in the color (which you can see by comparing the grass), 

* While both photos are pretty, I agree that the more white one is shockingly beautiful.

[Phoenikakias]

2 hours ago, iDesign said:

I wonder if it's a lighting difference, or perhaps camera settings?

Here is a Photoshop-tweaked version of your photo... not quite a match, but perhaps their camera (or Photoshop) is adjusting the colors somewhat? At a minimum, your camera has more saturation in the color (which you can see by comparing the grass), 

* While both photos are pretty, I agree that the more white one is shockingly beautiful.

If I had to pick one version as closer to true colors, I would opt for the first one. The color of the lawn in the second one looks quite unreal.  Otherwise there are also def genetics involved to some extent.