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MarkbVet

Parajubaea torallyi or hybrids, anyone?

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Trustandi
46 minutes ago, RJ said:

Jxs doesn’t like being in a pot imo. But yes all about the sam age, I definitely don’t push them either. 

How old are they? 

I think @matthedlund has the elusive Parajubaea x Jubaea as well. 

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MarkbVet
1 hour ago, RJ said:

Pjxj has been done by Patrix. @Ben in Norcal has one iirc. Very few of them around.  I don’t think patrix has been successful the other way around. Ben would know for sure.  No pjcxj that I’m aware but honestly I haven’t been in contact with patrix for awhile. 
 

I know it’s fun to imagine these hybrids as zone 8 hardy but just remember a standard butia is just barely a zone 8 palm. The reality is I would not expect these to be long term, meaning 30+ years in any zone 8 garden. I say plant them , protect them if you can and enjoy them :greenthumb:

To play devil's advocate:  Then there's that global warming thing lol....  who knows what these climate zones will be, going forward the next 30 years, compared to past 30.  Past experience may not be totally accurate now.  I'm certainly seeing less severe winter weather in the Portland area now, compared to the 1980's and prior.   So far my Butia odorata is thriving unprotected, getting a nice trunk, even putting out some new growth right now, in January!  (and it's been a bit colder than average lately).   With a number of good years and good size, I hope for increased hardiness for our rare super cold events.  (I can protect them in the rare really cold event, once every 10-15 years).  Some cultivars these days may have increased hardiness:  Desertscape Nursery in Bend, Oregon (zone 6b) has mature palms that are grown outdoors, producing seed for them, sourced from a cold area of northern Nevada (zone 7)... Desertscape says their mature palms handled temps below 5F for brief periods with only mild frond damage, and they assert that their plants are reliably hardy to zone 7b.  Who knows?  If true, then I suspect at least some strains of B. odorata will be pretty reliable in my relatively mild zone 8a.  

Yes, it's really hard to know if Butia X Parajubaea is gonna be hardy in zone 8.  P. torallyi lives up to 11,000 feet... I don't care where in the world you are,  that's gonna see some cold.  Wet hardiness may be its weakness.  We all know Butia tolerates some wet... so who knows if the BxP hybrid may be as cold hardy as pure Butia,  or even slightly more so, if wet tolerance in the hybrid is improved over pure Parajubaea?   But your comment is a good point; we really don't know yet.  As you say, it's fun to imagine--- and try it until proven wrong!  There will likely be some good surprises, and some bad ones.   The unknown hardiness of BxP is one reason I really want to see JxP or PxJ become more available... it may be even hardier than BxP, both in wet and cold hardiness.  Fun to experiment either way!!     

Edited by MarkbVet
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MarkbVet
1 hour ago, RJ said:

Last I knew they’re roughly a half dozen of them in existence. 

Gimme more, more, MORE!  :w00:

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MarkbVet
34 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

To play devil's advocate:  Then there's that global warming thing lol....  who knows what these climate zones will be, going forward the next 30 years, compared to past 30.  Past experience may not be totally accurate now.  I'm certainly seeing less severe winter weather in the Portland area now, compared to the 1980's and prior.   So far my Butia odorata is thriving unprotected, getting a nice trunk, even putting out some new growth right now, in January!  (and it's been a bit colder than average lately).   With a number of good years and good size, I hope for increased hardiness for our rare super cold events.  (I can protect them in the rare really cold event, once every 10-15 years).  Some cultivars these days may have increased hardiness:  Desertscape Nursery in Bend, Oregon (zone 6b) has mature palms that are grown outdoors, producing seed for them, sourced from a cold area of northern Nevada (zone 7)... Desertscape says their mature palms handled temps below 5F for brief periods with only mild frond damage, and they assert that their plants are reliably hardy to zone 7b.  Who knows?  If true, then I suspect at least some strains of B. odorata will be pretty reliable in my relatively mild zone 8a.  

Yes, it's really hard to know if Butia X Parajubaea is gonna be hardy in zone 8.  P. torallyi lives up to 11,000 feet... I don't care where in the world you are,  that's gonna see some cold.  Wet hardiness may be its weakness.  We all know Butia tolerates some wet... so who knows if the BxP hybrid may be as cold hardy as pure Butia,  or even slightly more so, if wet tolerance in the hybrid is improved over pure Parajubaea?   But your comment is a good point; we really don't know yet.  As you say, it's fun to imagine--- and try it until proven wrong!  There will likely be some good surprises, and some bad ones.   The unknown hardiness of BxP is one reason I really want to see JxP or PxJ become more available... it may be even hardier than BxP, both in wet and cold hardiness.  Fun to experiment either way!!     

Just to clarify: my prior comment that the hybrid may be hardy in zone 8 was referring to PxJ or JxP, not BxP.  Though hoping for that one to be hardy too!    :-)

Edited by MarkbVet

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RJ
12 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

To play devil's advocate:  Then there's that global warming thing lol....  who knows what these climate zones will be, going forward the next 30 years, compared to past 30.  Past experience may not be totally accurate now.  I'm certainly seeing less severe winter weather in the Portland area now, compared to the 1980's and prior.   So far my Butia odorata is thriving unprotected, getting a nice trunk, even putting out some new growth right now, in January!  (and it's been a bit colder than average lately).   With a number of good years and good size, I hope for increased hardiness for our rare super cold events.  (I can protect them in the rare really cold event, once every 10-15 years).  Some cultivars these days may have increased hardiness:  Desertscape Nursery in Bend, Oregon (zone 6b) has mature palms that are grown outdoors, producing seed for them, sourced from a cold area of northern Nevada (zone 7)... Desertscape says their mature palms handled temps below 5F for brief periods with only mild frond damage, and they assert that their plants are reliably hardy to zone 7b.  Who knows?  If true, then I suspect at least some strains of B. odorata will be pretty reliable in my relatively mild zone 8a.  

Yes, it's really hard to know if Butia X Parajubaea is gonna be hardy in zone 8.  P. torallyi lives up to 11,000 feet... I don't care where in the world you are,  that's gonna see some cold.  Wet hardiness may be its weakness.  We all know Butia tolerates some wet... so who knows if the BxP hybrid may be as cold hardy as pure Butia,  or even slightly more so, if wet tolerance in the hybrid is improved over pure Parajubaea?   But your comment is a good point; we really don't know yet.  As you say, it's fun to imagine--- and try it until proven wrong!  There will likely be some good surprises, and some bad ones.   The unknown hardiness of BxP is one reason I really want to see JxP or PxJ become more available... it may be even hardier than BxP, both in wet and cold hardiness.  Fun to experiment either way!!     

As long as you view it as an experiment… that’s what it really is. 
 

On a historical note: 45 years ago today it snowed in Tampa Fl, and Miami. 
 

https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article257496919.html

 


 

 

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NWpalms@206
14 hours ago, Trustandi said:

How old are they? 

I think @matthedlund has the elusive Parajubaea x Jubaea as well. 

He does, Ive seen it, and I think its (BxPjc) x jub... if im not mistaken its also got butia in the mix, somewhere. 

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MarkbVet

Some more news on the Parajubaea hybrid front:   Just talked to Patrick, he says Jubaea X Parajubaea is a 'NO GO", doesn't succeed.   Parajubaea sunkha X Jubaea is likely a no go also, sadly,  as Patrick says P. sunkha 'doesn't take other pollen'.   The only one he's had success with is P. cocoides X Jubaea, which he said is a nice plant, he really likes it (though no definitive hardiness data from him, his own climate is fairly mild).  So there you go...   he didn't specifically rule out P. torallyi but we may be stuck with P. cocoides, likely the least hardy of the genus.  Let's hope those Jubaea genes do good things!

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NWpalms@206
9 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Some more news on the Parajubaea hybrid front:   Just talked to Patrick, he says Jubaea X Parajubaea is a 'NO GO", doesn't succeed.   Parajubaea sunkha X Jubaea is likely a no go also, sadly,  as Patrick says P. sunkha 'doesn't take other pollen'.   The only one he's had success with is P. cocoides X Jubaea, which he said is a nice plant, he really likes it (though no definitive hardiness data from him, his own climate is fairly mild).  So there you go...   he didn't specifically rule out P. torallyi but we may be stuck with P. cocoides, likely the least hardy of the genus.  Let's hope those Jubaea genes do good things!

Did he happen to say any future plans for the PJCxJUB? 

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MarkbVet

@NWpalms@206 i asked Patrick if he has any (or will have) and awaitimg reply...

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NWpalms@206
2 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

@NWpalms@206 i asked Patrick if he has any (or will have) and awaitimg reply...

Fingers crossed! I’ve got 3 on the way today. If he does I’ll have to just order more I guess :) . There were some good ones on his previous list to the one I have, I never thought to ask if there’s any of those hiding somewhere. I’d love a B/J x J, Or that (BxPJC) x J… like Matt has. 

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NWpalms@206

Does Rich Lindberg do Parajubaea crosses? What about his J/B F3 crossed with a Parajubaea? That might make a nice one

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matthedlund
10 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

He does, Ive seen it, and I think its (BxPjc) x jub... if im not mistaken its also got butia in the mix, somewhere. 

I think you mean my Parajubaea cocoides X Jubaea chilensis that's a few years old now. It's planted out and finally starting to pick up speed, although it's still a very slow grower. I wrapped it for our week of terrible weather we had this Christmas. It's been unwrapped a few weeks and looks good so far. I'll report back come spring.

20220102_110516.jpg

20211219_161551.jpg

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matthedlund
31 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Does Rich Lindberg do Parajubaea crosses? What about his J/B F3 crossed with a Parajubaea? That might make a nice one

A friend sent him pollen from California but none of the seeds set.

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matthedlund
4 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Fingers crossed! I’ve got 3 on the way today. If he does I’ll have to just order more I guess :) . There were some good ones on his previous list to the one I have, I never thought to ask if there’s any of those hiding somewhere. I’d love a B/J x J, Or that (BxPJC) x J… like Matt has. 

I have a Pjc x J and B x Pjt. Plus a few more.

20211219_161456.jpg

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NWpalms@206
11 minutes ago, matthedlund said:

I think you mean my Parajubaea cocoides X Jubaea chilensis that's a few years old now. It's planted out and finally starting to pick up speed, although it's still a very slow grower. I wrapped it for our week of terrible weather we had this Christmas. It's been unwrapped a few weeks and looks good so far. I'll report back come spring.

20220102_110516.jpg

20211219_161551.jpg

Yes, I had thought you said it was (BxPJC) x J. Thats even cooler just PJC x Jub. There can’t be many of those around. Was that one of Patrick’s I can’t remember. 

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NWpalms@206
6 minutes ago, matthedlund said:

A friend sent him pollen from California but none of the seeds set.

That’s lame. I wonder if it’s possible to hybridize the two. Or if anyone has done j/b x pj or B/j x pj. 

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matthedlund
17 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Yes, I had thought you said it was (BxPJC) x J. Thats even cooler just PJC x Jub. There can’t be many of those around. Was that one of Patrick’s I can’t remember. 

@Love them palms has a Parajubaea cocoides X (Butia x Jubaea) if I remember correctly. I think a couple of folks have the Parajubaea c. X Jubaea. @Ben in Norcal how is your's doing?

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Chester B

@matthedlund kind of a side note.  Will be you carrying more of the hybrid palms going forward, there seems to be some interest but granted we're a small bunch!

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matthedlund
10 minutes ago, Chester B said:

@matthedlund kind of a side note.  Will be you carrying more of the hybrid palms going forward, there seems to be some interest but granted we're a small bunch!

I just sold out of the Jubutia F3 x Syagrus rom., but I still have about 6 of the x Syagrus schizophylla in 5 gallon. I also have hundreds of Butia x Syagrus rom. seed right now. I hope to offer more this season, but we'll see!

Edit: as always, things will eventually wind up on my website www.wanderlustnursery.com. I have lots of non-hybrid palms that will be added in the new couple of months.

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Chester B
1 minute ago, matthedlund said:

I just sold out of the Jubutia F3 x Syagrus rom., but I still have about 6 of the x Syagrus schizophylla in 5 gallon. I also have hundreds of Butia x Syagrus rom. seed right now. I hope to offer more this season, but we'll see!

Ok sounds good.  I did place an order after you updated your site, so am looking forward to the goodies coming in the mail.

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Trustandi
38 minutes ago, matthedlund said:

@Love them palms has a Parajubaea cocoides X (Butia x Jubaea) if I remember correctly. I think a couple of folks have the Parajubaea c. X Jubaea. @Ben in Norcal how is your's doing?

I also have the Parajubaea X B/J. So far, we have 3 people with Parajubaea x B/J so far in the Puget Sound area. I would love to visit your nursery @matthedlund. Your Parajubaea x Jubaea is so deep green I am jealous. 

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Chester B

@matthedlund do you have any pics of the  x Syagrus schizophylla?

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matthedlund
9 hours ago, Chester B said:

@matthedlund do you have any pics of the  x Syagrus schizophylla?

Unfortunately I'm on vacation this week. I can post a pic next week, or @NWpalms@206 can post a pic of his.

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NWpalms@206

Don’t Gotta ask me twice! 

J/B F3 x Syag Schizo or the “Parrot Mule Palm”. This is from the batch at Wanderlust currently. It’s grown faster than I expected, that spear is now a full frond in. just a few weeks. Compared to J/B and B x PJSunkha. This actually one of my favorites. It will be unique. 

E728466A-109A-4FB7-A4D2-72A986A9F024.jpeg

80E78447-3801-4718-A7AE-3EF3877CE4C5.jpeg

910E31B0-9930-49F8-97B2-B251ADEF32F9.jpeg

9BA31772-5A26-4B17-AF55-82DD2E487AC7.jpeg

18A15637-BB7F-486C-87EF-215A6A51AF41.jpeg

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Chester B

Very cool.  Thanks for the photo.

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Love them palms

Jubutia x schizophylla looking good as well. covered with frost cloth during our artic blast @ 13F also Jubaea x Queen looking fine

5435.jpeg

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Chester B

I'm really liking that JXQ.

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Love them palms
4 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I'm really liking that JXQ.

so do I ,have a Friend who owns NW Palmscapes and exotics taking orders for more just incase he can get some from his contact in San Diego again. that's where I got my 2.

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Chester B
22 minutes ago, Love them palms said:

so do I ,have a Friend who owns NW Palmscapes and exotics taking orders for more just incase he can get some from his contact in San Diego again. that's where I got my 2.

Sorry I'm confused, he has placed an order for some, or he is taking orders from people like us for them?

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Love them palms
13 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Sorry I'm confused, he has placed an order for some, or he is taking orders from people like us for them?

more or less he is trying to get people who want them to pre order (if he can get them) and if he gets enough people to make it worth his while to go to San Diego and get them if his contact has them. but don't know yet if anything is available yet. at this point is just messaging him and say yes I'm interested.. hope that makes sense. 

Edited by Love them palms

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NWpalms@206
8 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Sorry I'm confused, he has placed an order for some, or he is taking orders from people like us for them?

Last i heard he was thinking of a trip down there if he had enough requests/ orders to justify the trip. Not sure if he currently has a line on more JxQ, but I Just messaged Dave and asked to be put on the J x Q request list also... well see, i hope he can find them. I didnt think anyone but patrick did that cross.  I bet hed have a decent amount of orders if he can find em. Shit ill buy 2 or 3 myself!

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Love them palms
Just now, NWpalms@206 said:

Last i heard he was thinking of a trip down there if he had enough requests/ orders to justify the trip. Not sure if he currently has a line on more JxQ, but I Just messaged Dave and asked to be put on the J x Q request list also... well see, i hope he can find them. I didnt think anyone but patrick did that cross.  I bet hed have a decent amount of orders if he can find em. Shit ill buy 2 or 3 myself!

mine did so well I would love to get more. looks promising for this area :greenthumb:

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NWpalms@206
23 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

@NWpalms@206 i asked Patrick if he has any (or will have) and awaitimg reply...

I got my daily patrick email with my tracking number...hes been very consistent in emailing back the next day. Did he give any word on his spring/summer plans?!

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MarkbVet

not yet....:blink2:

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MarkbVet

checking out another source of hybrids...will let ya know..

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ShadyDan

Bah I wish I could get in on these hybrid orders. Y'all making me jealous!

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MarkbVet
55 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I got my daily patrick email with my tracking number...hes been very consistent in emailing back the next day. Did he give any word on his spring/summer plans?!

Patrick says he doesnt have much in the way of PJXJ hybrids, and not sure when he will.   :-(

 

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Love them palms
26 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Patrick says he doesnt have much in the way of PJXJ hybrids, and not sure when he will.   :-(

 

I sent a couple emails and he hasn't replied yet. 

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southpacific73
1 hour ago, ShadyDan said:

Bah I wish I could get in on these hybrid orders. Y'all making me jealous!

Shady Dan same here but I’ve ordered from both Patrick and NW palms capes and exotics! I may order from Patrick again after I look at his list.

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ShadyDan
5 minutes ago, southpacific73 said:

Shady Dan same here but I’ve ordered from both Patrick and NW palms capes and exotics! I may order from Patrick again after I look at his list.

Yea i have one from Patric as well. Always a little dicey mailing plants across the border with paying big $$$ for a phyto. Maybe I'll take the risk again, or drive down one day. Definitely interested in seeing his latest list. 

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