Attalea in Houston

[Scott McDonald]

I have been growing both Attalea cohune and Attalea phalerata  South of Houston for the last 5 years.

ADHD Version:

A cohune= slow growing, but more cold tolerant.

A phalerata=Fairly fast growing, but less cold tolerant.

A cohune was planted as a strap-leaf seedling in 2002, maybe 2001.  She piddles, despite the best of loving care.  If lucky, she pushes 1 stunted frond a year.  Although stunted, they are otherwise healthy, and haven't burnt during colder temperatures -3C for 3-4 hours, as well as a few frosty mornings have left it untouched.  She's just slow, errr..."Special" dare I say.  The world waits for her to grow, while she and the Dypsis decipiens have a tea party out in the front yard.

On the other side of the fence is her cousin A phalerata.  We've all seen the type...

A phalerata is "mature" for her age.  She barely had her second strap-leaf before she was pushing almost completely pinnate fronds.  Who does this floosy think she is?  Sometime in the second year, she outgrew me.  I was completely aghast.  I thought to myself, "Self, at this rate, she'll be reproducing faster than the neighborhood cats."  

Then a tree branch from the neighbor's Walnut fell on her, smashing half her fronds.  There was concern, especially because Winter was on it's way.  Then the cold came, and the outside of her remaining fronds burnt.  She was looking as bad as Brittany Murphy in "Spun."

A tree service came and removed the offending Walnut, and I thought the exposure would finish her off, but...No, she started growing that Winter, only slowing until November 2006.  I'm not so sure she slowed though, as her circumference seemed to triple last winter.  Her bare feet are wet, in unammended gumbo clay.  She's been beaten and left out in the cold, only to ask for more.  I think I'm in love!

I'll post photos to this in a bit.

[iwan]

Great information Scott.  I have two A. cohune in 2G tree pots that are a year old.  I noticed one is pushing its fourth leaf in my shade house about a week ago.  I have seen some encouraging reports on the cold hardiness for this species.  I will probably plant them out next spring.

Do you have it in shade/sun?  Soil/watering info?

[BS Man about Palms]

Theres an ant on my screen I can't get rid of.......

[Tad]

top notch avatar i tried to smash it twice!!!!!!

[Scott McDonald]

Thanks for  the compliments on the avatar.

Watering/Fert of my Attalea- A couple times a year with Palm/Ixora fert.   I avoid watering in Winter, as it gets pretty wet here in Houston those few days.

They both got filtered light until the Walnut came down.  Now the phalerata gets full mid day-evening sun.  The cohune gets mid-to-afternoon sun.  I'm thinking about moving the cohune to a hotter part of the yard, since the phalerata seems to like the increased sun.

The cohune I got from a website, that I believe has since gone under.  The phalerata I received from a So.Cal IPS member. I think his last name is Orr

I'll get pics tomorrow...Trying to wrestle a migraine at the moment.

[Scott]

Can't wait to see the Attalea. This is one I've wanted to get, but wasn't sure if it could make it in my climate.

[paulgila]

i'm still waiting for the photos...

your avatar reminds me of an apt.i lived in...

[Scott McDonald]

Y'all in warmer climes should have no problem with an Attalea.  

Mine have both been in the ground since their second strap leaves.  I've never covered- much less heated them during the winter, and they are both in fairly exposed positions.  It got down a few degrees below freezing with frost last year, and the phalerata had maaayyyybe 2cm of burn to the tips.  The Cohune, a little less.  I have noticed that the Cohune is more sensitive to waterlogged soil than the phalerata.  Unfortunately my entire yard can get waterlogged due to the clay hardpan.

My problem has been finding seed/seedlings.  But, if one is concerned over cold tolerance and is a super-sleuth, there is another species.  Attalea geraensis, by my understanding is a more cold hardy subterranean species.  

I had asked Gaston and Alberto if they ever got seeds from them, but I don't think they had at the time of my search(early 2000ish).

Hopefully seeds/seedlings are easier to find than when I searched.  Not that anyone cares, but  here's the story of my search for Attalea:

Not finding A geraensis, I bought a heap of other Attalea seed from Alberto instead.  Unfortunately, the USDA sent the seeds back to Alberto.  He called me, quite confused about why the USDA would do such a thing.  Not having a clue, I asked that he send them back through.  The nice guy that Alberto is, did so at his own expense.  This time the USDA lost the seeds.  By the time I got them from the USDA, the packaging was destroyed and they were several months old-Needless to say they didn't germinate.  That was the one and only time I used my Importation Tags.

By coincidence, I discovered Mr. Orr was germinating and selling some phalerata, so I bought a strap-leaf from him.  That was some years ago, and I don't know if Mr. Orr (-hope the spelling is correct) is still germinating phalerata seeds, or where he got them.  

Alberto may still get Attalea seed, so it may be worth a shot to try him.  I would again, if not skeptical over USDA speed.

[waykoolplantz]

Atteleas are WAYKOOL...went crazy and now we have a number in the ground including...

A.Allensis

A.Brassiliensis

A.Brejinhoensis

A.Butyracea

A.Cohune

A.Dubia

A.E guinensis

A.E oliefera

A.Humilis

A.Marida

A.Phalerata

A.PindoBassu

A.Polysticha

A.Speciosa

[Scott McDonald]

I would still like to find an A dubia seedling for my last  spot.

Did you acquire a seedling, or did you germinate yourself?  I hear germination is sporatic at best, so I've not yet made an attempt.

[deezpalms]

(waykoolplantz @ Aug. 24 2007,08:50)

QUOTE

Atteleas are WAYKOOL...went crazy and now we have a number in the ground including...

A.Allensis

A.Brassiliensis

A.Brejinhoensis

A.Butyracea

A.Cohune

A.Dubia

A.E guinensis

A.E oliefera

A.Humilis

A.Marida

A.Phalerata

A.PindoBassu

A.Polysticha

A.Speciosa

Michael, I hope you have a gigantic garden for all those Attalea's  

[iwan]

Trying to get A. cohune seeds from South America would be expensive as they are large and heavy, so shipping would add up quickly for more than a couple seeds.  Both of mine germinated in about a month from a third party (at least) source, so viability appears good.  No signs of germination from my A dubia though.

[waykoolplantz]

(deezpalms @ Aug. 24 2007,12:21)

QUOTE

Michael, I hope you have a gigantic garden for all those Attalea's  

I do have a pretty gigantic garden...the Attaleas...Borassus...Corypha & Raphia are trying to eat up space...but lots of room for them to grow

[Scott McDonald]

The Cohune palm:

[Scott McDonald]

The phalerata:

fronds are about 12ft (4m) in length.  Bad picture, I apologize.

[kelen]

Here, in south of Brasil (Canguçu - Rio Grande do Sul), I have Attalea dubia, Orbygnya phalerata (Attalea speciosa) and Attalea geraensis growing very well where temperature arive 0ºC frequently in winter (harly ever -3ºC). Only Attalea geraensis get some damage and grow very slow.

Last winter I lost many palms (Dypsis decaryi, Dypsis lutescens, Roystoneas,..) but I don't lost even one Attalea.

[kelen]

Attalea dubia seedling

[kelen]

Orbygnya phalerata (Attalea speciosa) twin seedling.

[merrill]

With all these Attalea devotees here, can someone tell which Attalea have more than three compartments. Seems I've seen some with 6 and 12 seed per nut.

[FRITO]

cool, I missed this thread before, thanks for bumping it.

Kelen, welcome to palmtalk, glad to have you aboard! lots of interesting plants you are growing that I am unfmaliar with. I look forward to learning more.

what city in brasil are you from? I am seeking cold hardy palm seed from south america.

[kelen]

cool, I missed this thread before, thanks for bumping it.

Kelen, welcome to palmtalk, glad to have you aboard! lots of interesting plants you are growing that I am unfmaliar with. I look forward to learning more.

what city in brasil are you from? I am seeking cold hardy palm seed from south america.

Hi!

Thanks! I'm from Canguçu, Rio Grande do Sul (south of Brazil), here is natural habitat of Butia capitata, Syagrus romanzoffiana and Trithrinax brasiliensis. There are others palms near of here like Butia lallemantii, B. eriospatha, Geonoma gamiova, Euterpe edulis.

[Alberto]

Oi Kelen! Que bom ver você por aqui!

My Trithrinax brasiliensis (that we collected from the site-São Jorge???- you showed us last january),are germinating!

How are the seeds that I sent you? Did you manage to germinate some B.lallemantii seeds? Mine are´´sleeping´´

Do you have A. geraensis seedlings to swap with me?

[buffy]

Here, in south of Brasil (Canguçu - Rio Grande do Sul), I have Attalea dubia, Orbygnya phalerata (Attalea speciosa) and Attalea geraensis growing very well where temperature arive 0ºC frequently in winter (harly ever -3ºC). Only Attalea geraensis get some damage and grow very slow.

Last winter I lost many palms (Dypsis decaryi, Dypsis lutescens, Roystoneas,..) but I don't lost even one Attalea.

Kelen: Is there a concensus about which Attalea is most cold hardy. My winter temperatures dip down to -6C at times here in East Texas.

[osideterry]

I thought Cohunes were Cocos for years when traveling in Mexico. They clean up real nice.

I keep reading that they are coldhardy only until the growing point is exposed to a freeze event. That must take several years, but can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Alberto]

Here, in south of Brasil (Canguçu - Rio Grande do Sul), I have Attalea dubia, Orbygnya phalerata (Attalea speciosa) and Attalea geraensis growing very well where temperature arive 0ºC frequently in winter (harly ever -3ºC). Only Attalea geraensis get some damage and grow very slow.

Last winter I lost many palms (Dypsis decaryi, Dypsis lutescens, Roystoneas,..) but I don't lost even one Attalea.

Kelen: Is there a concensus about which Attalea is most cold hardy. My winter temperatures dip down to -6C at times here in East Texas.

The only Attalea I saw growing together with Araucaria angustifolia is the A.dubia. This Attaleas species here , reaches considerable high habitats (grows also in a frostfree region near the sea). I think its probably de hardiest of all......

[Austinpalm]

The only Attalea I saw growing together with Araucaria angustifolia is the A.dubia. This Attaleas species here , reaches considerable high habitats (grows also in a frostfree region near the sea). I think its probably de hardiest of all......

Alberto,

Good to see you chime in on this thread. I am still germinating A. dubia seeds you sent me last year. So far none have awaken from slumber. However, I am hopeful. Do you remember if the seeds you sent me were from the highland population or lower areas?

Thanks!

[Alberto]

The only Attalea I saw growing together with Araucaria angustifolia is the A.dubia. This Attaleas species here , reaches considerable high habitats (grows also in a frostfree region near the sea). I think its probably de hardiest of all......

Alberto,

Good to see you chime in on this thread. I am still germinating A. dubia seeds you sent me last year. So far none have awaken from slumber. However, I am hopeful. Do you remember if the seeds you sent me were from the highland population or lower areas?

Thanks!

Hi!!!

The seeds came from a cultivated tree in a city (Ponta Grossa)that is located 19 km from here ...

[buffy]

The only Attalea I saw growing together with Araucaria angustifolia is the A.dubia. This Attaleas species here , reaches considerable high habitats (grows also in a frostfree region near the sea). I think its probably de hardiest of all......

Alberto: Do you have any recommendations on how to obtain seeds from some of the high altitude specimens? It would be interesting to try out in an 8B environment.

Edited October 3, 2008 by buffy

[Alberto]

Buffy, I really don´t know how to obtain seeds from high provenance.

Maybe that in the near future I can harvest some seeds of this cultivated palm in Ponta Grossa............

[kelen]

Oi Kelen! Que bom ver você por aqui!

My Trithrinax brasiliensis (that we collected from the site-São Jorge???- you showed us last january),are germinating!

How are the seeds that I sent you? Did you manage to germinate some B.lallemantii seeds? Mine are´´sleeping´´

Do you have A. geraensis seedlings to swap with me?

Olá Alberto!

The germination of Trithrinax brasiliensis from Santo Antão is very good! To me was almost 100%.

The seeds that you send me, only Chamaerops vulcano germinated, are seven seedlings and they are very good.

Butia lallemantii is very slow to germinate, I think that need some years to this. You should plant them in sand and full sun.

I have only one seedling of Attalea geraensis, I receceived 6 seeds and only one germinated.

Do you belive that Brasilian's Trithrinax are two species (T. acantocoma and T brasiliensis)?? I see some differences but I used to see some cultivated Trithrinax here like acanthocoma, but I think that they had been transplanted from natural habitats here.

Abraço

[kelen]

There are some Attaleas (or Orbygnyas) and Scheeleas phaleratas here in Cachoeira do Sul - Rio Grande do Sul and they take some grades of frost every years.

[kelen]

Babaçu in Iraí - Rio Grande do Sul. The house owner cut many leaves, unfortunely

[JD in the OC]

Here is an Attalea we're putting in for a customer today:

[Peter]

Wow, great plant Justin! Please show a photo once it's in the ground.

[buffy]

Buffy, I really don´t know how to obtain seeds from high provenance.

Maybe that in the near future I can harvest some seeds of this cultivated palm in Ponta Grossa............

Alberto: I'd appreciate it if you would keep me in mind when you do. Thanks

[Alberto]

Kelen, the first batch of seeds came from Nigel.

From the second batch, B.microspadix are also very slow germinators. I hope some of this will germinate for you!

Buffy I´ll remember you when/if I´ll have some seeds!

Edited October 12, 2008 by Alberto

[Austinpalm]

Scott,

How did the Attalea handle Ike?

I currently have A. cohune and A. gerainenesis planted in the yard. Additionally, I have a recently germinated A. speciosa and am still trying to germinate A. dubia and A. humilis.

[Scott McDonald]

Hi Clay,

Sorry for the laaate reply.

I gave the cohune away before Ike. the phalerata is very, very large with a huge head of 3m+ fronds.

Did the mule palm do ok for ya?

[Austinpalm]

Hi Clay,

Sorry for the laaate reply.

I gave the cohune away before Ike. the phalerata is very, very large with a huge head of 3m+ fronds.

Did the mule palm do ok for ya?

Scott,

Good to hear from you. The mule palm did not survive too long. Unfortunately, squirrels got in my greenhouse and did a number on several plants. I have since acquired another mule palm and plan to plant it soon. What attaleas do you have left? I have been purchasing A. humilils seeds from botanical auctions in Florida without any success in germination. Still looking for A. humilis.

Clay

[Scott McDonald]

Just the big A phalerata. The Cohune wasn't nearly as robust in my swampy clay soil.

Had a bunch of small stuff, but gave them away so the yard looked less "occupied," however, will start growing stuff out again once we find a place. Looking at either Tiki or inland acreage.

Maybe I'll try some A humilis seed. Yours have bruchid beetle larvae problems? I've had upwards of 50% larvae in Attalea seeds I've gotten, but it was not from where you purchase your seed. Very disappointing to cut all the way through that hard-assed seed, only to find larvae inside.