Jump to content
NWpalms@206

Any Mature jubaea or hybrids in PNW?

Recommended Posts

Scott W
4 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

@Chester B   Shipping was $45...heavy pot and well packaged though.  No damage.   Gave me a little discount on the plant (unasked). 

Any idea the largest size they ship?  I sent an email asking an haven't received a reply.  I can only imagine the costs to ship a larger size to Florida :crying:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
15 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Thanks.  You definitely got the best Trithrinax for our climate.  I have a decent sized T acanthacoma that I will plant this spring.  I got such a good price on it, It's worth the risk.

It may do ok,  good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
12 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Any idea the largest size they ship?  I sent an email asking an haven't received a reply.  I can only imagine the costs to ship a larger size to Florida :crying:

I don't know... they do offer larger sizes on many plants, if they're in stock (it varies), but obviously the plant (and shipping) cost goes up rapidly above 5 gallon.  Don't know if they are willing to ship really big plants.  They're pretty good about getting back to you with answers, though. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott W
5 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

I don't know... they do offer larger sizes on many plants, if they're in stock (it varies), but obviously the plant (and shipping) cost goes up rapidly above 5 gallon.  Don't know if they are willing to ship really big plants.  They're pretty good about getting back to you with answers, though. 

Thanks.  They have some 15 gallon Butia species that I'd love to have in my collection.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trustandi
58 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Any idea the largest size they ship?  I sent an email asking an haven't received a reply.  I can only imagine the costs to ship a larger size to Florida :crying:

Phil still ships 15G palms. I bought a 15g JxB from him before. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Thanks.  You definitely got the best Trithrinax for our climate.  I have a decent sized T acanthacoma that I will plant this spring.  I got such a good price on it, It's worth the risk.

Cistus has T. brasiliensis, may try it at some point.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
1 hour ago, Trustandi said:

Phil still ships 15G palms. I bought a 15g JxB from him before. 

Got a pic? Was eyeballing that on his list 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
4 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

And the plot thickens lol. Soon theyll have the whole alphabet crossed in there! I imagine you could by 5 of each and probably all be a little different. As a grower maybe thats frustrating not having a consistent product, but I like the variation keeps them from getting too boring and just being copies of each other. 

Ok, so got more info from Matt at Wanderlust,  he says that to confirm all the Supermule details, we'd have to ask the original source, Merrill, who of course is deceased.  But to best of Matt's knowledge, it's 3rd generation BxJ then hybridized with queen palm;  or BxJ ( F3) x Q.  In longhand, it would be (BxJ) x (BxJ) x (BxJ) self pollinated for total of 3 generations,  then crossed with queen palm.  This is the best that can be ascertained of the genetic hybrid background of the supermules for both Moultrie and Wanderlust, as far as Matt knows.  Definitely a bit different than the common (Bxj) x B x Q that is often used to describe these palms.    Just repeating here for those interested!  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trustandi
1 hour ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Got a pic? Was eyeballing that on his list 

Yup. Here you go

PXL_20210914_210130199.PORTRAIT.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
38 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

Yup. Here you go

PXL_20210914_210130199.PORTRAIT.jpg

Nice! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
8 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Ok, so got more info from Matt at Wanderlust,  he says that to confirm all the Supermule details, we'd have to ask the original source, Merrill, who of course is deceased.  But to best of Matt's knowledge, it's 3rd generation BxJ then hybridized with queen palm;  or BxJ ( F3) x Q.  In longhand, it would be (BxJ) x (BxJ) x (BxJ) self pollinated for total of 3 generations,  then crossed with queen palm.  This is the best that can be ascertained of the genetic hybrid background of the supermules for both Moultrie and Wanderlust, as far as Matt knows.  Definitely a bit different than the common (Bxj) x B x Q that is often used to describe these palms.    Just repeating here for those interested!  

Of course, despite the same parent source palms for the two nurseries,  Moultrie may be doing an additional cross with Butia before the final queen cross, and Wanderlust simply isn't aware of it...?   Really not certain.  :unsure:

Edited by MarkbVet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott W
2 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Of course, despite the same parent source palms for the two nurseries,  Moultrie may be doing an additional cross with Butia before the final queen cross, and Wanderlust simply isn't aware of it...?   Really not certain.  :unsure:

No, Frank Lewis (Moultrie Palms) nor Rich Lindberg are not doing an additional cross before the final cross with Queen.

In my discussion with Rich Lindberg this morning, this is what was ascertained:

Original tree was in Fairchild,  thought to be pure Jubaea,  determined in fact to be a hybrid,  most likely Jubaea x Butia.  Merrill obtained seed from this tree and ultimately planted them in his front yard along the driveway.  Once these matured, Merrill then started performing crosses with these trees.  These offspring are the Jubutia F3 that Rich and Frank are working with.  The unknown is whether these F3 trees were produced from hand pollinated backcross, natural pollination backcross, or from self pollination.  Most likely though they are Butia back crossed and hence the Jubutia F3 designation.

@edbrown_III travelled and worked with Merrill quite a bit as well, and I'll be sure to talk to him some more on this as well.

I found in this thread here Tim Hopper was producing Syagrus hybrids using the same trees Merrill had in his front yard, as he was gifted one then.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61309-is-there-a-j-x-b-x-q/

This thread here also talks a little more about Merrill's trees and includes a couple pics...

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/26741-jubutyagrus-hybrids-update/&page=3

So circling back around, I think it would be easiest and best if whoever does have the "super mule" from Frank or Rich continue to label them as Jubutia F3 x Syagrus.  Makes sense to me....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
2 hours ago, Scott W said:

No, Frank Lewis (Moultrie Palms) nor Rich Lindberg are not doing an additional cross before the final cross with Queen.

In my discussion with Rich Lindberg this morning, this is what was ascertained:

Original tree was in Fairchild,  thought to be pure Jubaea,  determined in fact to be a hybrid,  most likely Jubaea x Butia.  Merrill obtained seed from this tree and ultimately planted them in his front yard along the driveway.  Once these matured, Merrill then started performing crosses with these trees.  These offspring are the Jubutia F3 that Rich and Frank are working with.  The unknown is whether these F3 trees were produced from hand pollinated backcross, natural pollination backcross, or from self pollination.  Most likely though they are Butia back crossed and hence the Jubutia F3 designation.

@edbrown_III travelled and worked with Merrill quite a bit as well, and I'll be sure to talk to him some more on this as well.

I found in this thread here Tim Hopper was producing Syagrus hybrids using the same trees Merrill had in his front yard, as he was gifted one then.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61309-is-there-a-j-x-b-x-q/

This thread here also talks a little more about Merrill's trees and includes a couple pics...

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/26741-jubutyagrus-hybrids-update/&page=3

So circling back around, I think it would be easiest and best if whoever does have the "super mule" from Frank or Rich continue to label them as Jubutia F3 x Syagrus.  Makes sense to me....

Hmm interesting, I would agree with you on the simply J/B F3 x Queen if this is true. Strange though Moultrie is very specific in their literature (copied and posted previous page) that they crossed that J/B with pure butia again before the Queen. If thats not true not sure why they would claim to... anyways though I think weve beat the dead horse, its a 3 way cross of J/B/Q either way. Gonna be getting a couple more Moultrie supers i think when they open shipping, I guess the only thing left would be to ask Frank himself about HIS palms. Good to clear it all up, seems like there was some lingering confusion about what exactly the "Super" mules are . All good info

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scott W
59 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Hmm interesting, I would agree with you on the simply J/B F3 x Queen if this is true. Strange though Moultrie is very specific in their literature (copied and posted previous page) that they crossed that J/B with pure butia again before the Queen. If thats not true not sure why they would claim to... anyways though I think weve beat the dead horse, its a 3 way cross of J/B/Q either way. Gonna be getting a couple more Moultrie supers i think when they open shipping, I guess the only thing left would be to ask Frank himself about HIS palms. Good to clear it all up, seems like there was some lingering confusion about what exactly the "Super" mules are . All good info

Yeah, but I don't think he did that additional cross, he was just expounding on the parentage of the F3 Jubutia obtained from Merrill, as this F3 Jubutia IS different from obviously a standard mule (Butia x Syagrus) and different again as well from a Jubutiagrus (Jubaea x butia) x Syagrus.

I can assure you Frank and Rich are working with the same generation F3 Jubutia and are producing the same super mules.

Anyway, as I stated, the reality is that the parentage is definitive, so again in my opinion it'd be best to simply call then Jubutia F3 x Syagrus...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
43 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Yeah, but I don't think he did that additional cross, he was just expounding on the parentage of the F3 Jubutia obtained from Merrill, as this F3 Jubutia IS different from obviously a standard mule (Butia x Syagrus) and different again as well from a Jubutiagrus (Jubaea x butia) x Syagrus.

I can assure you Frank and Rich are working with the same generation F3 Jubutia and are producing the same super mules.

Anyway, as I stated, the reality is that the parentage is definitive, so again in my opinion it'd be best to simply call then Jubutia F3 x Syagrus...

Thats what im labeling it. Their website data is just a little confusing then, the way its described.  No worries, im definitely not trying to correct anyone or be a know it all, Im a just a detail oriented person that was raised by a Biologist. So i enjoy this type of stuff, also a "ADHD" kid so I get an idea in my head and sometimes i gotta tell myself let it go! haha but i can admit it, and appreciate everyones input!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
5 hours ago, Scott W said:

No, Frank Lewis (Moultrie Palms) nor Rich Lindberg are not doing an additional cross before the final cross with Queen.

In my discussion with Rich Lindberg this morning, this is what was ascertained:

Original tree was in Fairchild,  thought to be pure Jubaea,  determined in fact to be a hybrid,  most likely Jubaea x Butia.  Merrill obtained seed from this tree and ultimately planted them in his front yard along the driveway.  Once these matured, Merrill then started performing crosses with these trees.  These offspring are the Jubutia F3 that Rich and Frank are working with.  The unknown is whether these F3 trees were produced from hand pollinated backcross, natural pollination backcross, or from self pollination.  Most likely though they are Butia back crossed and hence the Jubutia F3 designation.

@edbrown_III travelled and worked with Merrill quite a bit as well, and I'll be sure to talk to him some more on this as well.

I found in this thread here Tim Hopper was producing Syagrus hybrids using the same trees Merrill had in his front yard, as he was gifted one then.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61309-is-there-a-j-x-b-x-q/

This thread here also talks a little more about Merrill's trees and includes a couple pics...

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/26741-jubutyagrus-hybrids-update/&page=3

So circling back around, I think it would be easiest and best if whoever does have the "super mule" from Frank or Rich continue to label them as Jubutia F3 x Syagrus.  Makes sense to me....  

That seems to be the most accurate description of what they probably are, though it sounds like the genetic makeup of the original tree wasn't certain nor the work of deliberate hybridization.   Where that final (xB) designation came from (right before the queen cross) --who knows?   But yes,  3 generations of Jubutia hybrids crossed with Queen palm in 4th gen, seems the best summary.   Matt at Wanderlust also gave me pics of the 'mother tree' for the final hybrid cross-- looks like a Jubutia-- and the 'father plant'--  looks like a queen palm.   He asked I not share those pics as he doesn't own them.   Thanks for the info!  

Edited by MarkbVet
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
20 hours ago, Scott W said:

Any idea the largest size they ship?  I sent an email asking an haven't received a reply.  I can only imagine the costs to ship a larger size to Florida :crying:

Their site mentions shipping 15 gallon plants and even large pallets of plants.  They deliver mature palms that require cranes to install, but that would be a local event only I'd imagine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
21 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

I've got a 2 gallon supermule on order from Wanderlust, same thing as Moultrie, but wont ship until March I think.  Got a Patrick   B. yatay X Jubaea on the way, + a Trithrinax campestris from Jungle Music, and a silver Sernoa repens from plantvine.    So... are your patrick palms (JxB) x J  ?  :-)

I think you got the last one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MarkbVet
5 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I think you got the last one!

yup -- for now  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Love them palms

here's a cross I got from Patric Shafer a couple years ago-  Jubaea x Butia yatay- decided to uncover it today after checking out the weather outlook. don't  think I should of covered it but oh well. don't know if Patric make these anymore ,Mukilteo Washington Z8B 

20220108_123027.jpg

20220108_123021.jpg

20220108_123004.jpg

Edited by Love them palms
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jesse PNW

@Love them palmsThat thing looks great!  He still offers them, at least this past fall he did.  You've got all kinds of stuff, do you have more pics or maybe a vid walkthrough of it all? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Love them palms
8 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

@Love them palmsThat thing looks great!  He still offers them, at least this past fall he did.  You've got all kinds of stuff, do you have more pics or maybe a vid walkthrough of it all? 

It's one of my Favorites,I believe the Jubaea x butia is your winner, winner, chicken dinner when it comes to PNW hardiness.it survived last winter uncovered and I'm sure it could have this cold spell as well.I will do my spring video walk through in end March and April on Facebook, might do a YouTube to upload here.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Love them palms
14 minutes ago, Trustandi said:

@Love them palmsdon't you also grow Butia X Jubaea? 

other than my Butia x Jubaea x Queen. I have 1 Butia x Jubaea as well. had this one planted 3 years now

20220108_142200.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206

I noticed on what seems like all the Yatay crosses, they have and keep that very green petiole and boots even after cut off. Noticed on someone’s yatay x queen pic also, on another post. My 5gal JxB F1 was “Likely” yatay, said  “ I was using yatay at that time” but he labeled it simply Jub x Butia and couldn’t remember. Mine has the darker base look, possibly not yatay then? still gorgeous though, just a detail I noticed. Maybe nothing to it. Bring on some more yatay X  pics! Here’s a young one just splitting its first leaf. Can’t wait for it to grow there’s some really nice Yatay x Jub pics floating around here. 

6E554DD4-DE38-4323-A18F-2A3909BFDC35.jpeg

image.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NWpalms@206
On 1/8/2022 at 12:47 PM, Love them palms said:

here's a cross I got from Patric Shafer a couple years ago-  Jubaea x Butia yatay- decided to uncover it today after checking out the weather outlook. don't  think I should of covered it but oh well. don't know if Patric make these anymore ,Mukilteo Washington Z8B 

20220108_123027.jpg

20220108_123021.jpg

20220108_123004.jpg

Just ordered one today, he said he was out for a bit but some more have appeared!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Love them palms
5 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Just ordered one today, he said he was out for a bit but some more have appeared!

just sent Patrick a message myself to see what he has and asked about Jubaea crosses 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chester B
2 hours ago, Love them palms said:

just sent Patrick a message myself to see what he has and asked about Jubaea crosses 

Fill us in on the current list if you can. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Love them palms
7 hours ago, Chester B said:

Fill us in on the current list if you can. 

post it as soon as I get it 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...