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NWpalms@206

Any Mature jubaea or hybrids in PNW?

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MarkbVet
11 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

@MarkbVet Small differences in climate do matter, for sure.   That's why we pay so much attention to microclimates and to try exploit them as much as possible.  Even where I live, my property will often be in the upper 30's and frost free.  But my neighbors just slightly downhill, with no forest canopy, will be covered in frost. 

I too have retirement goals.  The wife and I want to move to Florida, hopefully to a zone 10.  She loves florida for Disney and sunshine.  I love it for the climate.  I'd love to run a nursery and also cater to cold-hardy hybrids, and ship stuff up to the PNW.  Those are all dreams and I have a lot of figuring to do, to make it all happen. 

I'd buy from you, if I"m still alive and kickin' by the time you move there.  I love Oregon and low rain/humidity lol, so I'll move as far south in the state as I can and be happy! Grew up there and miss the California-like climate w/o the So. Calif. crowding and smog etc.  

Edited by MarkbVet

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Scott W
7 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

 Matt's response is as follows:

"Our "Super Mule Palms" are literally the exact same parentage as those sold as "Hardy Mule Palms" sold by Frank Lewis at Moultrie Palms. Frank and I work with the same palm breeder and the mother palm is not really a (BxJ) x B, but it's actually a third generation hybrid of a BxJ that was self pollinated. The mother tree originated from Merill Wilcox. 

Which would then mean that this other breeder is Rich Lindberg, as Rich does a lot of work with Frank and I know he sells to a few vendors in the PNW.   Rich has half a dozen of the F3 Jubutia, can't recall how many Frank is working with.  I also have one but it's not in the ground and mature yet...

Sorry to get this thread sidetracked if I did.....

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Chester B

@MarkbVet the differences between our climate and that around Vancouver Island and its surrounding islands is primarily to do with heat, or lack there of.  I feel this is one of the major disadvantages as his palms grow much slower than what we see in our area.  He always refers to the poor rocky soil,  and that may be a contributing factor but the lack of heat is what I think slows things down for him considerably.  He often refers to 25 year old palms in his video,  and for us the same size palm would be a 5-7 year old specimen.   I personally feel that some palms need a certain amount/duration of heat in a year to function effectively, ie - thrive not survive.   If they don't get it they kind of limp along until eventually some adverse condition comes along and takes them out.  I had 3 Serenoa repens, now I'm down to one, and the remaining palm is barely larger than when I planted it 4 or so years ago - it is simply surviving.  A warm/hot day on Salt spring island is in the 70's.  In a way its similar to the south UK where it doesn't get all that cold, but doesn't get hot -very typical of what we would see at the coast.  This winter and the one in 2008 he reports ultimate lows of -8C or 17F, but the total number of hours below freezing easily exceeds what we have experienced.  That every bit further north does make a difference.  It opens them up to a better chance of Arctic air, and don't forget the sun is at a lower angle for them in winter, and they do have shorter days then.  Banana Joes location is in a rain shadow so he has very dry summers just like us, whereas the further north you go the wetter it gets - Just look at the precip stats for Victoria vs Nanaimo vs Port Hardy.  Plus that area tends to have more snow events than we do.  Like @Jesse PNW has already stated he has a lot of overhead cover on his property and surrounding ones, so is protected by winds.  If I were to say what he the main differences are - 1) lack of heat units (average daily temperature is lower) 2) More susceptibility to Arctic air.

 

 

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MarkbVet
2 hours ago, Chester B said:

@MarkbVet the differences between our climate and that around Vancouver Island and its surrounding islands is primarily to do with heat, or lack there of.  I feel this is one of the major disadvantages as his palms grow much slower than what we see in our area.  He always refers to the poor rocky soil,  and that may be a contributing factor but the lack of heat is what I think slows things down for him considerably.  He often refers to 25 year old palms in his video,  and for us the same size palm would be a 5-7 year old specimen.   I personally feel that some palms need a certain amount/duration of heat in a year to function effectively, ie - thrive not survive.   If they don't get it they kind of limp along until eventually some adverse condition comes along and takes them out.  I had 3 Serenoa repens, now I'm down to one, and the remaining palm is barely larger than when I planted it 4 or so years ago - it is simply surviving.  A warm/hot day on Salt spring island is in the 70's.  In a way its similar to the south UK where it doesn't get all that cold, but doesn't get hot -very typical of what we would see at the coast.  This winter and the one in 2008 he reports ultimate lows of -8C or 17F, but the total number of hours below freezing easily exceeds what we have experienced.  That every bit further north does make a difference.  It opens them up to a better chance of Arctic air, and don't forget the sun is at a lower angle for them in winter, and they do have shorter days then.  Banana Joes location is in a rain shadow so he has very dry summers just like us, whereas the further north you go the wetter it gets - Just look at the precip stats for Victoria vs Nanaimo vs Port Hardy.  Plus that area tends to have more snow events than we do.  Like @Jesse PNW has already stated he has a lot of overhead cover on his property and surrounding ones, so is protected by winds.  If I were to say what he the main differences are - 1) lack of heat units (average daily temperature is lower) 2) More susceptibility to Arctic air.

 

 

Yes the low heat in summer (and its negative effect on growth/vigor/strength of plants) could easily affect their winter hardiness as well.  Thanks for mentioning this.  The increased susceptibility of Joe's locale to arctic air was one of the things I was driving at, when mentioning 'further north' despite being coastal.  Average winter lows may be milder than my inland location (hence his slightly warmer climate zone rating), but he's further north and may encounter occasional arctic blasts that I avoid.  If he's had lows of 17F this winter, that's considerably below what I've had  (25F is the lowest I've seen this winter, and only briefly one day).   Our days below freezing have only been a handful also, and usually above freezing during the daytime.   Hence our 1/2 inch of total snow during the cold snap.   Makes me hopeful that palms like my Pindo palm (B. odorata) will continue to thrive (and grow fairly quickly).   Fingers crossed!

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MarkbVet
8 hours ago, Scott W said:

Which would then mean that this other breeder is Rich Lindberg, as Rich does a lot of work with Frank and I know he sells to a few vendors in the PNW.   Rich has half a dozen of the F3 Jubutia, can't recall how many Frank is working with.  I also have one but it's not in the ground and mature yet...

Sorry to get this thread sidetracked if I did.....

Not a problem at all!  The nice thing about this site is everyone giving their input, which often leads to new and interesting insights,  or at least good discussion!!  Good luck with your hybrids once they're in the ground-- hope they prove hardy and vigorous for you.  And as far as sidetracking this thread, it's been all over the place already, branching more like an oak tree than a palm lol.   

Edited by MarkbVet
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ShadyDan

@Chester B @MarkbVet Just to throw my 2 cents in here about Island living (sorry for continuing the off topic convo, but I also love talking about weather and climate)... Yes, I agree 100% that we are more heat starved than you folks further south, especially for us that live by/on the ocean. Some places in the Island Interior and Lower Mainland (IE Port Alberni, Chilliwack) see much warmer summer temperatures on average. I'm about 50m away from the water and I'm noticeably cooler in the summer than even places only 1km or so more inland. We see the same dry, sunny weather all summer so I take advantage of those long summer days by strategically planting my heat-lovers amongst darker rocks and against building.

I also agree we are more susceptible to the Artic blasts as well, being further North and closer to that Artic air and all. However, living on the Islands with a stretch of ocean between us and the Mainland really helps dissipate the harsh Artic outflow winds and allows that air to moderate a little. Its part of the reason why my place (and Joe's) "only" got down to -8C during this last blast, while places in Vancouver @ sea level got down to -12C or colder. The further away you are from the inlets and the Fraser valley which really funnel and amplify the cold air, the better off you are during these events.

Yes, this cold event was definitely more harsh on BC, but it could have easily been reversed. Take last years outflow where Oregon was hammered with ice and freezing temps.... we didn't get any of that... just some boring, normal sub-zero temps and a wee bit of snow. All depends on where that cold air mass travels and which river valley (Fraser VS Columbia) it wants to rush out the quickest. I'm hoping we get a break and the next outflow travels your way (kidding!.... kinda :D).

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MarkbVet

@Chester B:   you mentioned your Serenoa repens isn't doing well, possibly due to lack of summer heat...but aren't you down here near my location, not up near Vancouver Island?  Still not enough heat you think?  (last summer was, err,  pretty warm).  I've got a silver saw palmetto on the way, will be keeping it potted until I eventually move south, but hoping for SOME growth before it gets put in the ground!   I'll likely have most of my potted palms sitting in the cactus garden, where it's open, sunny, rocky, south facing exposure, with no shade and 8 hours sun daily... it feels like the desert in the summer hehe.   But I've  got automatic sprinklers to provide water, and an in-line system which allows me to put fertilizer into the sprinkler line, and fertilize the entire garden with low level fertilizer each time it waters. 

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MarkbVet
12 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

@Chester B @MarkbVet Just to throw my 2 cents in here about Island living (sorry for continuing the off topic convo, but I also love talking about weather and climate)... Yes, I agree 100% that we are more heat starved than you folks further south, especially for us that live by/on the ocean. Some places in the Island Interior and Lower Mainland (IE Port Alberni, Chilliwack) see much warmer summer temperatures on average. I'm about 50m away from the water and I'm noticeably cooler in the summer than even places only 1km or so more inland. We see the same dry, sunny weather all summer so I take advantage of those long summer days by strategically planting my heat-lovers amongst darker rocks and against building.

I also agree we are more susceptible to the Artic blasts as well, being further North and closer to that Artic air and all. However, living on the Islands with a stretch of ocean between us and the Mainland really helps dissipate the harsh Artic outflow winds and allows that air to moderate a little. Its part of the reason why my place (and Joe's) "only" got down to -8C during this last blast, while places in Vancouver @ sea level got down to -12C or colder. The further away you are from the inlets and the Fraser valley which really funnel and amplify the cold air, the better off you are during these events.

Yes, this cold event was definitely more harsh on BC, but it could have easily been reversed. Take last years outflow where Oregon was hammered with ice and freezing temps.... we didn't get any of that... just some boring, normal sub-zero temps and a wee bit of snow. All depends on where that cold air mass travels and which river valley (Fraser VS Columbia) it wants to rush out the quickest. I'm hoping we get a break and the next outflow travels your way (kidding!.... kinda :D).

Hope your weather improves soon!  The good thing about being further south is that our 'ice & freezing temps' tend to be less severe, and less frequent, than B.C.   I'm hoping your 'sub zero' temps are Celsius not Fahrenheit!   Kudos to you for growing these palms where u are.  Hope your plants all 'weather the storm'-- literally.

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Chester B
30 minutes ago, ShadyDan said:

Take last years outflow where Oregon was hammered with ice and freezing temps.... we didn't get any of that... just some boring, normal sub-zero temps and a wee bit of snow.

That storm was a pretty quick hit.  Wasn't long and wasn't particularly cold but it was raining heavily and some cold air came in and it froze - the ice is just so damaging.  I had 24+ hours of just below freezing, with an ultimate low that night of 24F  It hit overnight late Friday/Early Saturday and by Sunday it was warm again.  This Arctic event was about 4x as long and colder.  But yes when the cold comes in from the Gorge it can be nasty.

34 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

@Chester B:   you mentioned your Serenoa repens isn't doing well, possibly due to lack of summer heat...but aren't you down here near my location, not up near Vancouver Island?  Still not enough heat you think?  (last summer was, err,  pretty warm).  

I am - in Clackamas between HV and OC.  My point was that the reason Butia may not do well is that there isn't enough heat for them in BC, but the same thing can happen with some of the plants here too.  The Serenoa was my local example of a plant that can theoretically live here but struggles - I think due to lack of heat.  Fortunately Sabals seem to do better with cooler temps.

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MarkbVet
28 minutes ago, Chester B said:

That storm was a pretty quick hit.  Wasn't long and wasn't particularly cold but it was raining heavily and some cold air came in and it froze - the ice is just so damaging.  I had 24+ hours of just below freezing, with an ultimate low that night of 24F  It hit overnight late Friday/Early Saturday and by Sunday it was warm again.  This Arctic event was about 4x as long and colder.  But yes when the cold comes in from the Gorge it can be nasty.

I am - in Clackamas between HV and OC.  My point was that the reason Butia may not do well is that there isn't enough heat for them in BC, but the same thing can happen with some of the plants here too.  The Serenoa was my local example of a plant that can theoretically live here but struggles - I think due to lack of heat.  Fortunately Sabals seem to do better with cooler temps.

Well, I hope if it's placed in my cactus garden I get some growth out of it....  I suspect either way, if I can get mine to live in a pot, growth or no,  it will like So. Oregon where it averages in low-mid 90's F for 2-3 months straight, and near/over 100F some days in July-Aug. FYI the coldest I got during this past event was briefly 25F once, and 27F twice.  You?

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Chester B
11 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Well, I hope if it's placed in my cactus garden I get some growth out of it....  I suspect either way, if I can get mine to live in a pot, growth or no,  it will like So. Oregon where it averages in low-mid 90's F for 2-3 months straight, and near/over 100F some days in July-Aug. FYI the coldest I got during this past event was briefly 25F once, and 27F twice.  You?

Which palm Serenoa or Butia?  I have a fairly big Butia odorata with a few feet of trunk now.  About 12' or so wide and just as high - it does flower and this year was the first time the fruit matured before winter.  Butia are not an issue here, but up in BC they seem to be.  I would consider them to be a moderate to fast grower, I think this year the big one threw 8 fronds.  I also have an eriospatha that I think will take off this summer, it's only 4-5' in height. 

In comparison my remaining Serenoa is only about '6-7" tall in comparison and has been in the ground for just about as long.

I had one hour of 22F or 23F, beyond that I don't think It went below 27F or 28F on any of the other days.  The gorge can have an influence on my location when its windy.  Two days maxed out at 30F but the rest were well above freezing.  In most instances especially in winter my location is warmer than the core of Portland and I am generally warmer than on the west side except for when the east wind is blowing.

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MarkbVet
4 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Which palm Serenoa or Butia?  I have a fairly big Butia odorata with a few feet of trunk now.  About 12' or so wide and just as high - it does flower and this year was the first time the fruit matured before winter.  Butia are not an issue here, but up in BC they seem to be.  I would consider them to be a moderate to fast grower, I think this year the big one threw 8 fronds.  I also have an eriospatha that I think will take off this summer, it's only 4-5' in height. 

In comparison my remaining Serenoa is only about '6-7" tall in comparison and has been in the ground for just about as long.

I had one hour of 22F or 23F, beyond that I don't think It went below 27F or 28F on any of the other days.  The gorge can have an influence on my location when its windy.  Two days maxed out at 30F but the rest were well above freezing.  In most instances especially in winter my location is warmer than the core of Portland and I am generally warmer than on the west side except for when the east wind is blowing.

was talking about S. repens.    My B. odorata is growing well and fruiting--  I have flower spathes coming up in very early spring, kinda surprising.  Gonna save fruit and make jam next year maybe.  Sounds like you got a bit colder than I did last week; I benefit from being away from the gorge, so i usually don't experience the coldest central Oregon winds that come out of the gorge sometimes. 

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NWpalms@206

Well when watering today I noticed the super mules spears looked a little crispy, gave a light tug and out came the spears. Damnit, I’m sure it’s caused by the transplant but don’t know why, no others (and all 6 of Patrick’s ok thankfully) did this. The spears were dried up, and dark at the bottom with a little bit of what looks like white mold.  So now what? I poured about a half cup of hydrogen peroxide down each hole. Can these live or that a death sentence at this age? Should have left in the 1 gal til spring and gone straight in the ground. The rest of the plant looks perfect just the spears dried and pulled. More peroxide daily?

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Chester B

Treat with copper fungicide, don't over water or overhead water, and wait.   It could take a few months to see signs of life.

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NWpalms@206
8 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Treat with copper fungicide, don't over water or overhead water, and wait.   It could take a few months to see signs of life.

Just watered right before noticing, I’ll let it dry out and treat with the copper fungicide. Definitely a set back for these 2 and hope they make it. 

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NWpalms@206

Copper fungicide and peroxide?  pouring peroxide on it does soak it. 

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Chester B

If you're going to use the peroxide, after it reacts it turns to water so you'll want to get it out so you don't have a pool of water in the hole.  People are mixed on the peroxide.

If it were me,  I would make sure its dry, treat with fungicide and wait.

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Love them palms

here's 3 that took the 13F artic blast in Mukilteo Washington Z8B no damage yet(hopefully) Jubaea x Butia and 2 Patrick Schafer crosses-Jubaea xBJ and BJ x Jubaea. covered with frost cloth ,no cable. second winter outside 

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NWpalms@206
34 minutes ago, Chester B said:

If you're going to use the peroxide, after it reacts it turns to water so you'll want to get it out so you don't have a pool of water in the hole.  People are mixed on the peroxide.

If it were me,  I would make sure its dry, treat with fungicide and wait.

So I went and got copper fungicide, and it’s liquid, I got a little anxious and poured about 2 oz peroxide down the hole on each, then gave it about an hour and used a syringe to put the strangely Blue copper fungicide right down the hole. Unfortunately I had just watered which now I think was the problem overwatering. And they’ve just gotten treated with peroxide and liquid copper fungicide. So the last thing it is, is dry now. But got fans on em and am gonna set the pots on some bricks to get airflow under and no more watering until it’s dry as a bone. Guess thats all  I can do. Freakin Bummer but the plants look green and lush otherwise so fingers crossed. 

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Trustandi

@NWpalms@206 you could also use paper towel inside the hole to absorb the extra liquid. We need to keep it dry.

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Chester B

That's the brand I use too.   I put sprayed it on some palms as a preventative when we had a bad winter 5 years back.

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Love them palms
21 minutes ago, Chester B said:

That's the brand I use too.   I put sprayed it on some palms as a preventative when we had a bad winter 5 years back.

I always have a bottle mixed up just in case.

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NWpalms@206

I gently blew out any standing liquid in the hole I don’t believe there is any now. Also pulled back the wet dirt away from the bases a bit so the roots can breathe.  now theyve got fans blowing to dry out. They had powder copper fungicide also maybe I’ll try that next time. Apply copper again in a week? I’ll hold off on the peroxide. I did treat it with that first and sat an hour before fungicide. 

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MarkbVet
19 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Just watered right before noticing, I’ll let it dry out and treat with the copper fungicide. Definitely a set back for these 2 and hope they make it. 

Yes the fungicide is probably the way to go, assume this could be fungal, not bacterial, primarily.  Peroxide would foam/clean, and kill both bacteria and fungi, but problem is, it will also burn/kill healthy tissue too, so can traumatize the live plant tissue (the fungicide won't).  Try putting some peroxide on an open cut or sore on your skin, and you'll see what I mean.   I'd probably go light on peroxide, heavy on fungicide.   With that said, I'm not speaking from direct experience with using peroxide on a damaged palm, but I've got extensive experience with peroxide on live animal tissues.    You're doing the right things, keeping soil from piling high on the plant base,  do sparse watering in winter, and avoid water on the crown/growth tip  (especially now that there's a cavity).  Drying the hole out is probably the biggest thing; you could apply fungicide every few days,   let it sit for a few minutes, and dab out the excess liquid with cotton swabs etc to leave just a residue coating in there.   If the rest of the plant stays green, it may be ok.  Hopin!   Ps- be careful when handling these copper fungicides, they're highly toxic to mammals!  Wash well, try to avoid skin contact, etc...

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NWpalms@206
6 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

Yes the fungicide is probably the way to go, assume this could be fungal, not bacterial, primarily.  Peroxide would foam/clean, and kill both bacteria and fungi, but problem is, it will also burn/kill healthy tissue too, so can traumatize the live plant tissue (the fungicide won't).  Try putting some peroxide on an open cut or sore on your skin, and you'll see what I mean.   I'd probably go light on peroxide, heavy on fungicide.   With that said, I'm not speaking from direct experience with using peroxide on a damaged palm, but I've got extensive experience with peroxide on live animal tissues.  

I’ve read that about peroxide, that it does kill healthy cells also, and probably won’t use the peroxide again. Just fungicide, dry em out between treatments, and give them some time. If they survive this hopefully will toughen them up. I likely overwatered, wasn’t excessive but I don’t think they dried out between waterings, right after mailing and transplant. Just too much for the young palms.  But They better get used to wet soil if they gonna live here! 

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MarkbVet
42 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I’ve read that about peroxide, that it does kill healthy cells also, and probably won’t use the peroxide again. Just fungicide, dry em out between treatments, and give them some time. If they survive this hopefully will toughen them up. I likely overwatered, wasn’t excessive but I don’t think they dried out between waterings, right after mailing and transplant. Just too much for the young palms.  But They better get used to wet soil if they gonna live here! 

just edited my prior comment.  Good luck!!

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NWpalms@206
36 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

just edited my prior comment.  Good luck!!

Thank you for the info! fingers crossed. well I wanted to learn and experience all the glory and pain of palm trees, so guess i got what im asking for! Had to be the Moultrie Supers too, they were up there on my list of favorites. Glad my Patrick palms are doing great. Got the same treatment and are doing just fine, but gonna ease up on watering them too. Need to remember dont water until its DRY! 

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MarkbVet
38 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Thank you for the info! fingers crossed. well I wanted to learn and experience all the glory and pain of palm trees, so guess i got what im asking for! Had to be the Moultrie Supers too, they were up there on my list of favorites. Glad my Patrick palms are doing great. Got the same treatment and are doing just fine, but gonna ease up on watering them too. Need to remember dont water until its DRY! 

I've got a 2 gallon supermule on order from Wanderlust, same thing as Moultrie, but wont ship until March I think.  Got a Patrick   B. yatay X Jubaea on the way, + a Trithrinax campestris from Jungle Music, and a silver Sernoa repens from plantvine.    So... are your patrick palms (JxB) x J  ?  :-)

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NWpalms@206
1 minute ago, MarkbVet said:

I've got a 2 gallon supermule on order from Wanderlust, same thing as Moultrie, but wont ship until March I think.  Got a Patrick   B. yatay X Jubaea on the way, + a Trithrinax campestris from Jungle Music.    So... are your patrick palms (JxB) x J  ?  :-)

From Patrick i have... 

5gal JxB F1

(x2) B.Yatay x Jubaea liner size rooted out of the bottom

B x Parajubaea Torallyi liner sized rooted out of the bottom

B x Parajubaea Sunkha 8x8x12" about 4-5ft tall

B/J x Q liner sized

Wish I had met him just earlier I missed the (jxB)x J and the (Parajubaea Cocoides/Butia) x Jubaea. I believe Richard Linberg is currently working on a batch of (J/B) x J or (B/J) x J. Hope that may become available this summer/fall. I could be mistaken but i thought that the Wanderlust Super was Rich Lindberg Jubutia F3 x Queen, and that Moultrie was the same Jubutia F3) xB) x Q. There was just a conversation about this but im still confused lol. Matt did clarify but i forget now. 

 

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NWpalms@206
22 minutes ago, MarkbVet said:

I've got a 2 gallon supermule on order from Wanderlust, same thing as Moultrie, but wont ship until March I think.  Got a Patrick   B. yatay X Jubaea on the way, + a Trithrinax campestris from Jungle Music.    So... are your patrick palms (JxB) x J  ?  :-)

From the Moultrie website... they have the Additional Butia crossed in, Im not 100% sure but i thought Richards were (J/B) x Q. but at this point im probably overthinking it!

While Moultrie Palms has specialized in hybrid palm trees for over 14 years, we’re in the middle of cultivating a variant: the super cold hardy palms! This is a cross between three other palm varieties: the Butia (pindo palm), the Jubaea chilensis (Chilean wine palm), which grows high in the mountains of Chile which together form the basis for our super mule. From there, it is crossed with the Butia (pindo palm) again and the final step crossed with the Syagrus romanzoffiana (queen palm) to form the magnificent Super Mule.  Here’s a closer look at these new palms for sale in Florida:

Common name: Super cold hardy mule tree
Scientific name: Butia X Jubaea X Butia X Syagrus
Growth rate: We’re pleased to report that our super cold hardy palm trees grow at a fast pace.
Origin: Super cold hardy palms are a Moultrie Palms original. We are extremely proud of this new cultivation, and are excited to share it with our customers.
Salt tolerance: Like our hybrid palms, the super cold hardy mule will thrive in warm and cold climates and tolerate saltwater exposure.
Typical height: Somewhat shorter than our hybrid palms, super cold hardy palms will grow to between 25 and 30 feet tall.
Drought tolerance: The super cold hardy mule is relatively drought tolerant.
Cold tolerance: It is not yet known how cold these trees can get, but we expect them to survive into the low digits.

With its dark green, curved pinnate leaves and wide trunk, the super cold hardy palm is poised to be a delightful new addition to countless gardens, tropical getaways and more. If you’re looking for cold hardy palm trees for sale in Florida, this new creation from Moultrie Palms may be just what you’re after.

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NWpalms@206

Either way these will all be wonderful palms and I appreciate and try to support everyone out there putting in the work, so we can just buy and grow them to enjoy. Id like one of Richard/ Wanderlust Supers also even if theyre the same thing theyll each have individual character and unique qualities. Ill probably end up with one also :-)

The one thing Im sure of is that Moultrie and Wanderlust supers have the SAME Merrill Wilcox jubutia F3 mother

 

Edited by NWpalms@206

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MarkbVet
17 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

From Patrick i have... 

5gal JxB F1

(x2) B.Yatay x Jubaea liner size rooted out of the bottom

B x Parajubaea Torallyi liner sized rooted out of the bottom

B x Parajubaea Sunkha 8x8x12" about 4-5ft tall

B/J x Q liner sized

Wish I had met him just earlier I missed the (jxB)x J and the (Parajubaea Cocoides/Butia) x Jubaea. I believe Richard Linberg is currently working on a batch of (J/B) x J or (B/J) x J. Hope that may become available this summer/fall. I could be mistaken but i thought that the Wanderlust Super was Rich Lindberg Jubutia F3 x Queen, and that Moultrie was the same Jubutia F3) xB) x Q. There was just a conversation about this but im still confused lol. Matt did clarify but i forget now. 

 

Moultrie and Wanderlust supermules are identical.  I asked Matt at wanderlust: 

Matt's response is as follows:

"Our "Super Mule Palms" are literally the exact same parentage as those sold as "Hardy Mule Palms" sold by Frank Lewis at Moultrie Palms. Frank and I work with the same palm breeder and the mother palm is not really a (BxJ) x B, but it's actually a third generation hybrid of a BxJ that was self pollinated. The mother tree originated from Merill Wilcox. "    So,  it sounds like both nurseries are selling a (bxj) X (bxj) x b x Q. Or, depending on how you interpret matt's words, could be (bxj) x (bxj) x q.  I'll try to get clarification from him today.  But both nurseries are selling the same thing, apparently.    _

 

Edited by MarkbVet

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NWpalms@206
1 minute ago, MarkbVet said:

Moultrie and Wanderlust supermules are identical.  I asked Matt at wanderlust: 

Matt's response is as follows:

"Our "Super Mule Palms" are literally the exact same parentage as those sold as "Hardy Mule Palms" sold by Frank Lewis at Moultrie Palms. Frank and I work with the same palm breeder and the mother palm is not really a (BxJ) x B, but it's actually a third generation hybrid of a BxJ that was self pollinated. The mother tree originated from Merill Wilcox. "    So,  it sounds like both nurseries are selling a (bxj) X (bxj) x b x Q.    _

 

And the plot thickens lol. Soon theyll have the whole alphabet crossed in there! I imagine you could by 5 of each and probably all be a little different. As a grower maybe thats frustrating not having a consistent product, but I like the variation keeps them from getting too boring and just being copies of each other. 

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MarkbVet
Just now, NWpalms@206 said:

And the plot thickens lol. Soon theyll have the whole alphabet crossed in there! I imagine you could by 5 of each and probably all be a little different. As a grower maybe thats frustrating not having a consistent product, but I like the variation keeps them from getting too boring and just being copies of each other. 

I edited my comment:  could be (BXJ) x (BXJ) x Q for both nurseries, hard to be sure from Matt's comment.  Waiting on clarification shortly!

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NWpalms@206

I have no preference I like them all the same I just want my damn labels right! 

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MarkbVet

This is off topic, but here's the 5 gallon Trithrinax campestris from Jungle Music, just arrived!  :-)   Pointy devil...

Trithrinax campestris.jpg

Trithrinax campestris2.jpg

Edited by MarkbVet
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Chester B

@MarkbVet how was the shipping on it?  They seem to be the only game in town on some palms on my hit list, and that's the size I would likely opt for.

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MarkbVet

@Chester B   Shipping was $45...heavy pot and well packaged though.  No damage.   Gave me a little discount on the plant (unasked). 

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Chester B
1 minute ago, MarkbVet said:

@Chester B   Shipping was $45...heavy pot and well packaged though.  No damage.   Gave me a little discount on the plant (unasked). 

Thanks.  You definitely got the best Trithrinax for our climate.  I have a decent sized T acanthacoma that I will plant this spring.  I got such a good price on it, It's worth the risk.

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Scott W
31 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

And the plot thickens lol. Soon theyll have the whole alphabet crossed in there! I imagine you could by 5 of each and probably all be a little different. As a grower maybe thats frustrating not having a consistent product, but I like the variation keeps them from getting too boring and just being copies of each other. 

Yeah, and unfortunately the absolute truth was lost when Merrill passed away.  However, from my understanding, both Frank Lewis and Rich Lindberg worked quite a bit with him, learning his techniques, and hence part of the reason for them having these Jubutia F3, the mother of the super mules, which again are supposed to be second generation offspring from the parent palm that came from seed off the palm in Fairchild Gardens.  I think there may be a thread somewhere on here where Merrill talked about this.....

As for consistency in hybrids, I do know this is the reason why Rich and Frank produce limited trees every year, as they work with specific parents in their crosses in an effort to have consistent results.

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