Unhappy Jubaea x butia

[BeyondTheGarden]

Last year Home Depot had a bunch of revolutas that weren't expensive.  I'd read that they weren't 8A so I passed them up.  This year they only had a few, and they were more expensive.  Last year they also had Caryota urens (like 6 or 7' tall!) and i'm still kicking myself for passing on those as well. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[Scott W]

I saw some mention of Cycas taitungensis....I may be getting access to some pure seed of this in the near future.

Also have some smaller plants of what was supposed to be Cycas taitungensis x panzhihuaensis from the late Robert Chumley...I'll have to check tomorrow to see how many I have.

[Paradise Found]

I have a hybrid cycad that I got from the late Mr. chumley. 

cycas taitungensis x guizhouensis.  

 I received mine with the seed pod attached.  And two little leaves.  That was some time ago not sure what year. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Paradise Found

[Chester B]

TCHP used to have a few extremely cold hardy hybrid cycads. I’m kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on them.

The only issue I have with my Cycad is the rabbits keep chewing on them. I thought they were poisonous??

[BeyondTheGarden]

For plants that get chewed on by animals - I hit them with neem oil first, then sprinkle Cayenne powder on the aerial foliage.  The neem oil just helps the cayenne stick.  It 100% works for cats.  Also seems to work for rats, although I probably need more experimenting to verify.  The only problem I've had with this is that I've had white mold appear on the surface of the soil of some of the potted plants that have received this treatment.  Not sure if the Cayenne caused this or not.  But most of the plants I've used this method on had only positive effects and no detrimental.  

I wonder if black pepper would also work.  

[MarkbVet]

7 hours ago, Chester B said:

Their website hasn't been updated as long as I can remember.  I haven't been there this year, before that they had no hybrids for sale I asked him.  There was one big one in a pot that looks like a Butia,  but I think he was suspect of it being an actual hybrid.  

The one different palm he does get in, or at least he used to were pretty big needle palms.  About 5' overall height.  That's a tough one to find around here that big.  

Price on the palms is decent, definitely no gauging.

Let's see a picture!

Another great cycad for us is Cycas panzhihuaensis if you can find one.  Very rugged, but mine is pretty slow growing.

Yes panzhihuaensis is on my want list, along with Dioon edule.  But I like the look of taitungensis most, it really looks like C. revoluta,  is very hardy, and probably fastest growing of the bunch. Just not well known yet, which is a shame.   Got a C. taitungensis coming from cycad-palms in Calif. soon, 5 inch diameter caudex (stem),  $125 + $15-25 shipping.  Nice value!   I'll have to check on those needle palms,  as my seedling will be awhile to develop any size.   Will try to get pics of a few things in my yard soon; we had a house fire and i'm holed up in an apartment for months while house is being fixed.   Sometime this week i'll be over there, though it may be the weekend before I get a chance to visit it before sundown and take pics (it's dark before I get off work, yuck).   Got some very large yuccas and agaves (trunking yuccas, and 2 agaves taller than I am).  Some cacti taller than me too lol.  The entire front yard is wall to wall cacti etc, but it does keep the streakers off the property.  ';-P    Weeding is a religious experience. 

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

TCHP used to have a few extremely cold hardy hybrid cycads. I’m kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on them.

The only issue I have with my Cycad is the rabbits keep chewing on them. I thought they were poisonous??

Yes cycads like Sago palms are highly poisonous, though less research is available as to how herbivores process it.  But for humans, dogs, etc, all parts of the plant are highly toxic, causing damage to the digestive system, liver, and nervous system (multiple system damage, very nasty).  Ironically some people in habitats where cycads grow have eaten parts of the plant, but the plant parts must be carefully prepared to remove the toxins prior to ingesting it.  

[MarkbVet]

5 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Last year Home Depot had a bunch of revolutas that weren't expensive.  I'd read that they weren't 8A so I passed them up.  This year they only had a few, and they were more expensive.  Last year they also had Caryota urens (like 6 or 7' tall!) and i'm still kicking myself for passing on those as well. 

In my experience revoluta is only semi-hardy in zone 8a; will survive multiple milder winters in the Portland area if placed in warm location (say, against south facing brick wall), but if a colder than average winter comes, they may die.  Similar to Dracaenas and New Zealand Flax...look good for years and the Dracaenas can get 10+ feet tall, then a harsher winter comes and 'poof' they die to the ground.   Of course if you wrap/protect them enough etc then they can survive, but that's not my definition of 'hardy in this climate zone'.   You can make anything live if you protect it enough, right?  Stick em in a greenhouse in winter and all tropicals live! 

[MarkbVet]

3 hours ago, Scott W said:

I saw some mention of Cycas taitungensis....I may be getting access to some pure seed of this in the near future.

Also have some smaller plants of what was supposed to be Cycas taitungensis x panzhihuaensis from the late Robert Chumley...I'll have to check tomorrow to see how many I have.

Plantdelights.com has taitungensis seedlings for sale yearly; their next crop comes available early January 2022.  Faster than seed!  

[Scott W]

2 hours ago, MarkbVet said:

Plantdelights.com has taitungensis seedlings for sale yearly; their next crop comes available early January 2022.  Faster than seed!  

Yeah, I have a large male that I use for making my own hybrids.  

As for looks, when smaller yes they have a similar look, but once it puts on size it outgrows revoluta in width.  And yes, much faster growing and more cold hardy.  Taitungensis also has much flatter leaves than revoluta.

The one on the left is taitungensis, the middle revoluta, on the right panzhihuaensis. Taitungensis was a 4" caudex plant when originally planted, revoluta had about a foot of trunk. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Scott you have all kinds of wonderful plants that I wish I could grow here.  

Edit - Scott you think your hybrids would make it in zone 8?  I'm tempted to purchase some from your ebay store. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[Scott W]

20 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Scott you have all kinds of wonderful plants that I wish I could grow here.  

Edit - Scott you think your hybrids would make it in zone 8?  I'm tempted to purchase some from your ebay store. 

Thanks!

For my seedlings possibly the Rev x diannanensis might be pretty good for you.  Diannanensis is said to be pretty cold tolerant, even more so than Revoluta and there's a good thread here regarding it:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/52221-cycas-diannanensis-surprising-cold-hardiness/

Taitungensis x panzhihuaensis from Robert Chumley, if that's what these truly are, should be pretty stout as well.  

[MarkbVet]

12 hours ago, Scott W said:

Yeah, I have a large male that I use for making my own hybrids.  

As for looks, when smaller yes they have a similar look, but once it puts on size it outgrows revoluta in width.  And yes, much faster growing and more cold hardy.  Taitungensis also has much flatter leaves than revoluta.

The one on the left is taitungensis, the middle revoluta, on the right panzhihuaensis. Taitungensis was a 4" caudex plant when originally planted, revoluta had about a foot of trunk. 

Nice!  yes of course taigungensis is a larger plant, bigger leaves and flatter leaflets, but overall resembles revoluta a lot (very attractive!)  Your panzhihuaensis is pretty too, bluish is always attractive, but those always look more fern-like to me (we have tons of those in my area, ferns that is) so less exotic looking in my eyes.   Happily awaiting my taitungensis specimen!  

[VA Jeff]

On 12/14/2021 at 12:54 PM, knikfar said:

Where did you purchase yours from? I'm in Raleigh NC, not terribly far away. 

Patrick Schafer.  They were 2 leaf liners or so.  I have lost several Shafer hybrids, but I also have several that have survived a few years.

[Vic]

I think it could well be over watering that has caused this. My Jubaea seedlings suffered a similar fate, they are quite particular when young, and the hybrids can be even more tricky at 3-4 leaf stage, if too wet they are unable to get enough oxygen and suffer badly. If the soil is light and free draining then you will have less of an issue. 

[MarkbVet]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:10 PM, Chester B said:

Their website hasn't been updated as long as I can remember.  I haven't been there this year, before that they had no hybrids for sale I asked him.  There was one big one in a pot that looks like a Butia,  but I think he was suspect of it being an actual hybrid.  

The one different palm he does get in, or at least he used to were pretty big needle palms.  About 5' overall height.  That's a tough one to find around here that big.  

Price on the palms is decent, definitely no gauging.

Let's see a picture!

Another great cycad for us is Cycas panzhihuaensis if you can find one.  Very rugged, but mine is pretty slow growing.

Chester, here ya go!   :-)  Yucca schottii and Trachycarpus fortunei in background 1st pic (Agave parryi in foreground and A. salmiana ferox further back/dark green), with various prickly pears & chollas.  2nd pic: Yucca schottii large trunk, with offset 2nd trunk at left base... Trachy trunk peeking out behind and to right. For frame of reference, large dark green Agave salmiana is about 5 feet tall and wide.

Edited December 19, 2021 by MarkbVet

[Chester B]

Holy cow @MarkbVet everything looks amazing. Have you ever been featured on Lori Bohl’s Dangergarden blog?  Your garden is everything she loves. 
 

i used to have a bunch of cactus but I removed them all over a couple years.  I couldn’t stand getting the little hairs in my hands every time I gardened. They had a way of migrating all over the yard.
 

That yucca is crazy, now I guess I’ll have to head up to Cistus to see if I can find one. I don’t think I’ve seen another around here like it. I have the more common Rostrata and a bunch of variegated gloriosa that are all trunking. 
 

Those Agave salmiana ferox are something else. I don’t think the photos do a good job of showing how big they actually are. I remember the two monster specimens in NE Portland that were famous a few years back. The giant one is no longer but I think there is still at least one big one left. 
 

Great photos, please feel free to share more. 

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Holy cow @MarkbVet everything looks amazing. Have you ever been featured on Lori Bohl’s Dangergarden blog?  Your garden is everything she loves. 
 

i used to have a bunch of cactus but I removed them all over a couple years.  I couldn’t stand getting the little hairs in my hands every time I gardened. They had a way of migrating all over the yard.
 

That yucca is crazy, now I guess I’ll have to head up to Cistus to see if I can find one. I don’t think I’ve seen another around here like it. I have the more common Rostrata and a bunch of variegated gloriosa that are all trunking. 
 

Those Agave salmiana ferox are something else. I don’t think the photos do a good job of showing how big they actually are. I remember the two monster specimens in NE Portland that were famous a few years back. The giant one is no longer but I think there is still at least one big one left. 
 

Great photos, please feel free to share more. 

Thanks! I see you found my other photos in the Desert Garden Beaverton post... in that post, the other large Yucca (blue) is A. americana var. protoamericana, from PlantDelights, back when they actually had a good selection of hardy Yuccas and Agaves.  Don't know why they stopped offering most of them.  Yuccado's offerings are long gone too... ah the good ol' days.   Cistus is probably the best bet for those plants now; I suspect many originally came from PlantDelights.    Yeah I wanted  my wife to photo me next to some plants, to get better size comparison, then realized I couldn't really get close to them easily-- too crowded.   PS- the Yucca schottii was very fast growing, trunked within a few years!  The secondary branch off the base is only 3-4 years old. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by MarkbVet

[MarkbVet]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Holy cow @MarkbVet everything looks amazing. Have you ever been featured on Lori Bohl’s Dangergarden blog?  Your garden is everything she loves. 
 

i used to have a bunch of cactus but I removed them all over a couple years.  I couldn’t stand getting the little hairs in my hands every time I gardened. They had a way of migrating all over the yard.
 

That yucca is crazy, now I guess I’ll have to head up to Cistus to see if I can find one. I don’t think I’ve seen another around here like it. I have the more common Rostrata and a bunch of variegated gloriosa that are all trunking. 
 

Those Agave salmiana ferox are something else. I don’t think the photos do a good job of showing how big they actually are. I remember the two monster specimens in NE Portland that were famous a few years back. The giant one is no longer but I think there is still at least one big one left. 
 

Great photos, please feel free to share more. 

Nope haven't done the Dangergarden Blog-- I should check it out.  :-)