Looking for Jubaea x Syagrus Rom

[NWpalms@206]

Hello fellow palm enthusiasts, I’m hoping to locate and acquire a couple Jubaea x Syagrus Rom. Mailable size (unless locally to me in the western Washington area). This seems to be a tough one to find at the moment and would likely be the most ideal hybrid for my place on Vashon island. I have an order with Frank and Elaine at moultrie for 2 of the “super” mule, and with Patrick for some hybrids of his but no Jubaea x S.Rom at the moment. Much appreciated. 

[Scott W]

I think the only one that was doing this cross was Patrick....good luck in your search.

[Collectorpalms]

I have a 15 gallon. Cant ship, and it's "priceless." Buy my house, and Ill throw it in, but you will have to remove about 25 dead 20-30ft Palms from the Feb Blast to find a spot for it.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[NWpalms@206]

6 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I have a 15 gallon. Cant ship, and it's "priceless." Buy my house, and Ill throw it in, but you will have to remove about 25 dead 20-30ft Palms from the Feb Blast to find a spot for it.

I believe you! As one member said it may be the holy grail of the cold hardys.  And maybe the most beautiful/tropical based on the pics ive seen of some larger ones. I will be very happy when i finally find some. I may have a line on a batch coming up, making a call this morning. Fingers crossed!

[RichAZ]

That’s a tough one.  Been asking for one of those for a while with no success yet.  

[RJ]

Patrix is the only one doing them that I’m aware of n the US. If he doesn’t have one the try the for sale section. Ever so often one will pop up but don’t hold you’re breath. Good luck, it’s beautiful for sure. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

20 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I believe you! As one member said it may be the holy grail of the cold hardys.

I would definitely agree with this statement, im still trying to get one myself. 

T J 

[DAVEinMB]

@NWpalms@206  they're currently sold out but this could be a lead

[BeyondTheGarden]

I bought a couple standard "mules" from MPOM.  I'm happy with them, they shipped in great shape, they're still doing well a year later - one in the ground, one in a pot.  I even talked to the owner for awhile prior to making the purchase, he's a real down-to-earth guy (I think his name was Michael?).  But, their inventory seems currently drained.  I'm hoping they get stocked back up here soon. 

[NWpalms@206]

1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

@NWpalms@206  they're currently sold out but this could be a lead

I spoke to them and they informed me that they lost they’re source of jubaea flower so that’s no longer available. Coincidentally Patrick told me the same thing yesterday, that he lost his old jubaea source. Not sure if connected but 0 for 2 so far . Bummer, one more lead if I can get ahold of TexasColdHardyPalms. But they’re not replying to email or phone I’m wondering if they’re still open. This one will take some patience! I’ve got 4 others of Patrick’s and 2 super mules from Frank and Elaine both shipping monday. But I’m hell bent on a jubaea/queen! 

[NWpalms@206]

18 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

I bought a couple standard "mules" from MPOM.  I'm happy with them, they shipped in great shape, they're still doing well a year later - one in the ground, one in a pot.  I even talked to the owner for awhile prior to making the purchase, he's a real down-to-earth guy (I think his name was Michael?).  But, their inventory seems currently drained.  I'm hoping they get stocked back up here soon. 

Spoke to them and no luck on the jubaea x queen. I have coming next week a (butia x jubaea)x syagrus, a butia x Parajubaea torallyi, and 2 butia yatay x jubaea from Patrick, and a couple Moultrie “super” mules that are (JxB)xB)xS which I’m excited for! And a couple standard mule Butia/Syagrus from Wekiva. Just can’t find the last and most wanted hybrid the JxS. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Wekiva??? 

[NWpalms@206]

Just now, Jesse PNW said:

Wekiva??? 

Wekiva Foliage in Florida... I actually ordered them on Amazon I couldn’t believe my eyes just browsing found xButiagrus mule Palms! I ordered 2 they came packaged very well happy and healthy 3 gal. Seems legit I’m gonna actually reach out to see what else they have because the mule palms isn’t even on the website. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of pictures of Jubaea x Syagrus, that I know of.  

[NWpalms@206]

4 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of pictures of Jubaea x Syagrus, that I know of.  

 Wish it was more common seems like a real winner. That’s the tree I’ve seen a few pics of over it’s life and think it’s pretty amazing. Kind of inspired this search to be honest. Seen just a Couple others and they all seem really nice. Hoping I can find someone to let one or two go even if at premium cost, which I’m anticipating. Someday 

[BeyondTheGarden]

That's a gorgeous,  stately palm with a big full crown.  I think it will like our summers just fine.  If I had one, I would put it in a raised bed, and try to cover it in the winter if possible.  I'm guessing it wouldn't like being wet.  

Also if you get a good source for these please let me know.  I've been trying to stock up on hybrids here lately.  There just aren't many sources, and the few that exist are hit-and-miss. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[NWpalms@206]

2 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

That's a gorgeous,  stately palm with a big full crown.  I think it will like our summers just fine.  If I had one, I would put it in a raised bed, and try to cover it in the winter if possible.  I'm guessing it wouldn't like being wet.  

Also if you get a good source for these please let me know.  I've been trying to stock up on hybrids here lately.  There just aren't many sources, and the few that exist are hit-and-miss. 

Sure thing. Don’t know if you’ve seen those “Super” mules from Moultrie Palms… but they seem like a pretty good cross. (JxB)xB)xS). And I believe from Dr. Wilcox genetics. Got two gonna give them a shot. With light protection like frost cloths and christmas lights at the spear with anything forecast below 20 for the first few years then see what they become.  I Have hope for those ones. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

Yeah I'd like to order a few from Moultrie this spring.  Currently I've got a BxJxS from Patric, and a JxBxS from Richard Lindberg out of Florida.  Will be interesting to see how the different crosses do, they're both still strap-leaf "seedlings". 

[NWpalms@206]

Interesting, I have the bxjxs form Patric also but I’d be curious to grow the jxbxs along side of it and compare the growth and hardiness. Is Richard still around with those?

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

7 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

spoke to them and they informed me that they lost they’re source of jubaea flower so that’s no longer available. Coincidentally Patrick told me the same thing yesterday, that he lost his old jubaea source. Not sure if connected but 0 for 2 so far . Bummer, one more lead if I can get ahold of TexasColdHardyPalms. But they’re not replying to email or phone I’m wondering if they’re still open.

I'm gonna go out on a limb prolly not tho , MPOM never created JxS and merely gotten a stock from Patric. TCHP was devastated by Palmageddon I dont believe he is in business at the moment , hoping he makes a comeback tho 

T J 

[Scott W]

6 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Interesting, I have the bxjxs form Patric also but I’d be curious to grow the jxbxs along side of it and compare the growth and hardiness. Is Richard still around with those?

It would be interesting to see them grow side by side.  However,  I believe that while similar they'll have a different look simply because of the extra Butia cross involved in the super mule.

Yes Richard is around still, just not active on here, more so on the Hybrid Palms FB groups. He works a lot with Frank Lewis, and both of them have the same Merrill Wilcox Jubutia F3 that they backcross Syagrus romanzoffiana on to create the super mule.  (I also have one but it's not in the ground and not mature yet).

[NWpalms@206]

Hmmm, well maybe the question should be…who actually has a flowering jubaea and how can we get some to Patrick! Looks like he’ll have a line out the door of folks wanting some jxs. Gotta be one somewhere domestic or import jubaea flower? Chile? I’m not educated in import/customs stuff so I don’t know how that would work but just a thought I guess.  And I suppose that would make SxJ if he only had jubaea pollen and used queen mother… wonder that that would be like 

Edited December 12, 2021 by NWpalms@206

[NWpalms@206]

I did Join a few FB groups and did see Richard among them. Definitely a few folks looking for this and some for quite some time.

[Collectorpalms]

It is a very beautiful and Robusta palm in the right climate. But it isnt a zone 8a or even a long term 8b palm. It does begin to burn at 19F. When we hit 4F, I had whatever I could store in my garage. The electricty went out right as the worst of the cold came and my garage got down to 19F! It did bronze the leaves. Whenever the power would come back on ( a max of 30 minutes), I would heat the garage by turning on the dryer and letting the exhaust heat it back up. This went on for three days every half hour or so. I also had 2 7 gallon Bismarckia that eventually declined and never grew a new leaf.

The one in Montgomery Texas, did pretty bad in 2018, but did recover. I am fairly certain in died in Feb 2021, but have not proof. I would say that is slightly less hardy than a mule for whatever reason.

What a mess Texas! My pipes broke in my front yard, and at my brothers house it got below freezing inside the house despite a wood stove, where they had no power for maybe 3 days, and the water burst from their dishwasher. And their kitchen wasnt covered by FEMA, and the repairs continue....

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[NWpalms@206]

49 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

It is a very beautiful and Robusta palm in the right climate. But it isnt a zone 8a or even a long term 8b palm. It does begin to burn at 19F. When we hit 4F, I had whatever I could store in my garage. The electricty went out right as the worst of the cold came and my garage got down to 19F! It did bronze the leaves. Whenever the power would come back on ( a max of 30 minutes), I would heat the garage by turning on the dryer and letting the exhaust heat it back up. This went on for three days every half hour or so. I also had 2 7 gallon Bismarckia that eventually declined and never grew a new leaf.

The one in Montgomery Texas, did pretty bad in 2018, but did recover. I am fairly certain in died in Feb 2021, but have not proof. I would say that is slightly less hardy than a mule for whatever reason.

What a mess Texas! My pipes broke in my front yard, and at my brothers house it got below freezing inside the house despite a wood stove, where they had no power for maybe 3 days, and the water burst from their dishwasher. And their kitchen wasnt covered by FEMA, and the repairs continue....

Hey thanks for the info. I’m really just beginning the experiment of what can survive here. I live on Vashon island in puget sound and we are on the warmer side of 8b it’s been below 20f 2 times in the last decade, and I have a nice sunny but wind sheltered 3 acres with great soil and drainage. I think I can be successful with the hardiest of the mules. I have high hopes for Patrick’s Yatay x Jubaea and BxJxS…  The butia x Parajubaea Tor. is maybe pushin it a bit we’ll see. And then the moultrie super mules claim to be ok In the teens. So we’ll see I guess. have standard xbutiagrus mules also. Have Any other hybrids that didn’t show any signs of damage at 19? So sorry about the freeze damage, terrible how many palms got killed. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by NWpalms@206

[BeyondTheGarden]

2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

It is a very beautiful and Robusta palm in the right climate. But it isnt a zone 8a or even a long term 8b palm. It does begin to burn at 19F. When we hit 4F, I had whatever I could store in my garage. The electricty went out right as the worst of the cold came and my garage got down to 19F! It did bronze the leaves.....

How big is your JxS?

[Swolte]

I grew my JxS from a strapleaf (if my wife ever found out what I paid for the those grassy sprouts...) and it survived the 3f with only insulation (in retrospect, should have dug it out and brought it inside). Really started to leaf out this year. Can post some growth stats later.
:) 

[Collectorpalms]

43 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

How big is your JxS?

Its in a pot bound 15 gallon. Like a chunky 3-4ft.  I have a Butia x Parajubea T, that is taller and in a 5gallon pot. It wasnt hurt at 19F.

All my hybrids planted outside died, with the exception of one. I Thought the JubaeaxButia would do the best, and it probably just wasnt big enough yet, some of the leaves remain green after 4F, but the bud died. It was not protected. But I bet That is truly the hardiest hybrid, you just have to get it to a beast to survive 4F. And maybe if I had it planted 20 years ago it would have survived unprotected.

The one hybrid that lived, I had protected ( I protected a lot but they still died.  Its parent palm is a hybrid mystery from Huntington Gardens in California. I am not sure if it is back crossed to a Butia  or a BxJ jxB that is next to it , or what. It certainly looks like a mix of butia jubaea and syagrus. This particular parent fronds looked like what I had that was a Tim Hopper (bxj)s. It was rather a runt compared to a regular mule right next to it. The one I got from the parent palm, looks much nicer so it probably did backcross with something else, and to me looks like what you would expect a jxs looks like

Here is the parent palm.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[NWpalms@206]

17 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Its in a pot bound 15 gallon. Like a chunky 3-4ft.  I have a Butia x Parajubea T, that is taller and in a 5gallon pot. It wasnt hurt at 19F.

All my hybrids planted outside died, with the exception of one. I Thought the JubaeaxButia would do the best, and it probably just wasnt big enough yet, some of the leaves remain green after 4F, but the bud died. It was not protected. But I bet That is truly the hardiest hybrid, you just have to get it to a beast to survive 4F. And maybe if I had it planted 20 years ago it would have survived unprotected.

The one hybrid that lived, I had protected ( I protected a lot but they still died.  Its parent palm is a self fertile hybrid mystery from Huntington Gardens in California. I am not sure if it is back crossed to a Butia or what. I think it might be a mix of butia jubaea and syagrus .

Here is the parent palm.

That’s a nice looking palm! Love to see pics of that butia x Parajubaea T.  and the mystery palm. 19f Undamaged in a 5 gal is promising, and that was in a garage or outside? And the mystery palm that survived 4f that’s good stuff. And Self fertile.. Is it producing viable seeds? If it’s possibly bxjxs or butia back crossed again maybe Moultrie is onto something with the (bxj)xb)xs). 

[Collectorpalms]

11 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

That’s a nice looking palm! Love to see pics of that butia x Parajubaea T.  and the mystery palm. 19f Undamaged in a 5 gal is promising, and that was in a garage or outside? And the mystery palm that survived 4f that’s good stuff. And Self fertile.. Is it producing viable seeds? If it’s possibly bxjxs or butia back crossed again maybe Moultrie is onto something with the (bxj)xb)xs). 

I edited the self-fertile comment. Mules are sterile. There are just too many hybrid options At Huntington to know how it came about. But I think an expert eye would see a jubaea in that palm. But I have no experience. 

Anything that was in a pot was in my garage except yucca Rostratas….. which Died! zone 5 plants died in pots left out.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Collectorpalms]

This is what my only surviving hybrid in ground that lived looked like a few weeks after trunk cutting it. Lol 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Kailua_Krish]

2 hours ago, NWpalms@206 said:

Hey thanks for the info. I’m really just beginning the experiment of what can survive here. I live on Vashon island in puget sound and we are on the warmer side of 8b it’s been below 20f 2 times in the last decade, and I have a nice sunny but wind sheltered 3 acres with great soil and drainage. I think I can be successful with the hardiest of the mules. I have high hopes for Patrick’s Yatay x Jubaea and BxJxS…  The butia x Parajubaea Tor. is maybe pushin it a bit we’ll see. And then the moultrie super mules claim to be ok In the teens. So we’ll see I guess. have standard xbutiagrus mules also. Have Any other hybrids that didn’t show any signs of damage at 19? So sorry about the freeze damage, terrible how many palms got killed. 

Make sure to keep water out of the crown for the first few years for JxS. We had oddly rainy winters in my place in Central FL in 2009-2012 associated with some of the worst cold for a while and the JxS pulled its spear every year from it until it became large and robust. Now its fine and pretty much bullet proof in central FL. Its a very attractive palm but honestly I would say the BxPj looks more tropical/coconut like

[Collectorpalms]

Here is a jubaea x butia after 4F. Still had green fronds unprotected, after a month but then collapsed. I trunk cut it too. But it never did anything. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[BeyondTheGarden]

Dang.  That sucks.  

[Collectorpalms]

There were some nice big healthy palms in there…

Front Drive:

Back corner drive:

Edited December 12, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[BeyondTheGarden]

Wow! 

On the bottom pic, just left of the Phoenix (Canariensis I presume)?  There's a very small pinnate palm behind the (Sabal minor?)  What is that little guy? 

Edit: How did the Cycas (revolutas?) do? 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Jesse PNW

[DAVEinMB]

3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

 

Whoa 

[RJ]

On 12/12/2021 at 12:55 AM, NWpalms@206 said:

Spoke to them and no luck on the jubaea x queen. I have coming next week a (butia x jubaea)x syagrus, a butia x Parajubaea torallyi, and 2 butia yatay x jubaea from Patrick, and a couple Moultrie “super” mules that are (JxB)xB)xS which I’m excited for! And a couple standard mule Butia/Syagrus from Wekiva. Just can’t find the last and most wanted hybrid the JxS. 

Almost positive mule palms of Mississippi gets his jxs just from Patrix. I have some mule back crosses from that mule at Huntington gardens. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by RJ

[NWpalms@206]

6 hours ago, RJ said:

Almost positive mule palms of Mississippi gets his jxs just from Patrix. I have some mule back crosses from that mule at Huntington gardens. 

I’m pretty sure everyone did. You have some back crosses of this though? Back crossed with what, (JxS) x ?… are those in a display garden or do you have them for sale? 

[RJ]

On 12/13/2021 at 11:17 AM, NWpalms@206 said:

I’m pretty sure everyone did. You have some back crosses of this though? Back crossed with what, (JxS) x ?… are those in a display garden or do you have them for sale? 

The large mule at Huntington garden is a creation from Dr. Wilcox. It just so happens that the male pollen is fertile and Patric has in the past made crosses from this palm if memory serves me correct. It was either this one or from David Lavigne (?) who also has two giant mules from Dr. Wilcox.   
 

patrix has made a bxbq or a butia x mule. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by RJ