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Do some palm seeds need lower temps?


Will

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Hi,

I have started growing some different palm varieties and some don't seem to germinate. 

Archontophoenix alexandrea, Caryota mitis, Nannarhops ritchiana and Salacca zalacca germinated pretty fast in the baggy on a heat mat.

On the other side my Jubaea, Ceroxylon and Rhapidophyllum haven't shown any sign of germination yet.

Could it be that those palm varieties like lower temperatures like room temperature? Could the baggy on the heat mat be to hot for them?

I would appreciate any help!

Cheers,

Will

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41 minutes ago, Will said:

Hi,

I have started growing some different palm varieties and some don't seem to germinate. 

Archontophoenix alexandrea, Caryota mitis, Nannarhops ritchiana and Salacca zalacca germinated pretty fast in the baggy on a heat mat.

On the other side my Jubaea, Ceroxylon and Rhapidophyllum haven't shown any sign of germination yet.

Could it be that those palm varieties like lower temperatures like room temperature? Could the baggy on the heat mat be to hot for them?

I would appreciate any help!

Cheers,

Will

Hi Will,

I believe some palm seeds prefer not to "cook."  I don't have any experience with Ceroxylon or Rhapidophyllum but Jubaea seem to respond better with fluctuations in temperatures.  I planted one Jubaea seed in my front flower bed about this time of year and it sprouted in March when it started to warm up good.  I've also had success germinating Butia odorata seeds after putting them in the refrigerator for a few weeks.  Howea forsteriana and Trachycarpus fortunei seem to germinate better at room temperature as well.

Jon

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Jon Sunder

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36 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Hi Will,

I believe some palm seeds prefer not to "cook."  I don't have any experience with Ceroxylon or Rhapidophyllum but Jubaea seem to respond better with fluctuations in temperatures.  I planted one Jubaea seed in my front flower bed about this time of year and it sprouted in March when it started to warm up good.  I've also had success germinating Butia odorata seeds after putting them in the refrigerator for a few weeks.  Howea forsteriana and Trachycarpus fortunei seem to germinate better at room temperature as well.

Jon

I think im gonna go put my butia seeds in the refrigerator.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 2 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 1 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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8 minutes ago, JLM said:

I think im gonna go put my butia seeds in the refrigerator.

Someone else recently recommended this for Butia and Butia hybrid seeds, but I've also just today read that after ripening storage for Butia seeds does not improve germination.  One thing is for certain though...they like warmer temps for germination and can take upwards to two years to germinate.

https://journals.ashs.org/horttech/view/journals/horttech/8/4/article-p586.xml

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I’ve always germinated Ceroxylon at room temperature. If the seed is fresh, I’ve had fairly good rates. Being cloudforest palms, I wouldn’t think they’d respond well to high temps from a heat mat. 

Edited by tim_brissy_13
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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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How about Dypsis baronii or onilahensis?

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Just now, DoomsDave said:

How about Dypsis baronii or onilahensis?

I got 100% germination rate on D baronii black petiole at room temperature. I’ve got a batch of D onilahensis still popping now, already up to about 75% after 3 months but I’ve got these places over a central heating duct indoors so temps probably fluctuate from room to low 30s C (80s F) for the D onilahensis. 

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Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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13 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

I got 100% germination rate on D baronii black petiole at room temperature. I’ve got a batch of D onilahensis still popping now, already up to about 75% after 3 months but I’ve got these places over a central heating duct indoors so temps probably fluctuate from room to low 30s C (80s F) for the D onilahensis. 

Thanks!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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5 hours ago, Will said:

Hi,

I have started growing some different palm varieties and some don't seem to germinate. 

Archontophoenix alexandrea, Caryota mitis, Nannarhops ritchiana and Salacca zalacca germinated pretty fast in the baggy on a heat mat.

On the other side my Jubaea, Ceroxylon and Rhapidophyllum haven't shown any sign of germination yet.

Could it be that those palm varieties like lower temperatures like room temperature? Could the baggy on the heat mat be to hot for them?

I would appreciate any help!

Cheers,

Will

I think licualas like small temp dips.  I move them off the heat mat overnight.  I read this in the instructions I followed and they take a long time but I've had a lot germinate.

My D. onihalenses were 80's to 90's with no dips. I only got about 20%. I'm thinking they might have been too hot.

I also read about Trachycarpus takil needing to be temporized with cold but I had no luck with those after a trip to the fridge (After I had already exposed them to other methods--I think they were old,).

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8 hours ago, JLM said:

I think im gonna go put my butia seeds in the refrigerator.

Some good info here as well, but again, conflicting with other documentation I've read.  This one quoted a guy named Carpenter and states cold storage for Butia seed improved germination.  However, it also stated removing the endocarp provided even better results. 

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP238

Another good read on Butia germination after drying them for a period of 24 - 48 hours then subjecting them to various test ranges for germination.  Interesting in this test best germination was achieved when temps were kept at 40c for the first twenty one days then dropped to 30c during germination.  Also appears dry storing for 90 days produced better results

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263460045_Alleviation_of_seed_dormancy_in_Butia_odorata_palm_tree_using_drying_and_moist-warm_stratification

Certainly worth experimenting.

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I have only started Washingtonia, Phoenix canariensis and Cocos from seed. Washingtonia and even the Cocos germinated at room temp in December, but with a lot of sun (which does heat the soil up). Forgot the conditions for the dates, but assume bottom heat with help for all.  Importantly, palm seed has to be fresh, I've read that they have much low viability with the passage of time.

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6 hours ago, Scott W said:

Some good info here as well, but again, conflicting with other documentation I've read.  This one quoted a guy named Carpenter and states cold storage for Butia seed improved germination.  However, it also stated removing the endocarp provided even better results. 

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP238

Another good read on Butia germination after drying them for a period of 24 - 48 hours then subjecting them to various test ranges for germination.  Interesting in this test best germination was achieved when temps were kept at 40c for the first twenty one days then dropped to 30c during germination.  Also appears dry storing for 90 days produced better results

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263460045_Alleviation_of_seed_dormancy_in_Butia_odorata_palm_tree_using_drying_and_moist-warm_stratification

Certainly worth experimenting.

My limited experience with Butia seed germination certainly wasn't conducted scientifically but I did have more success following the advice of similar readings.  Had virtually zero success with typical methods but good results with cold storage of embryos after cracking the seeds in a vise.  It's possible that I would have had the same results just planting the embryos without the cold storage or vice versa.  After success with a few I didn't bother to try other methods. :D Seems to me that a commercial grower (maybe Erik at Mule Palm nursery) recommended the cold storage.

Jon Sunder

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1 hour ago, Fusca said:

My limited experience with Butia seed germination certainly wasn't conducted scientifically but I did have more success following the advice of similar readings.  Had virtually zero success with typical methods but good results with cold storage of embryos after cracking the seeds in a vise.  It's possible that I would have had the same results just planting the embryos without the cold storage or vice versa.  After success with a few I didn't bother to try other methods. :D Seems to me that a commercial grower (maybe Erik at Mule Palm nursery) recommended the cold storage.

Yeah I failed grossly a few years back not knowing Butia can take upwards to two years to germinate as well as really needing the heat put to them.  I did buy some of Erik's mule seed and have been researching optimizing germination hence me having these articles bookmarked.  And yes he's the one that mentioned cold storage, he also definitely said don't plant right away.

I also recently went to a 75% perlite 25% peat seed mix, and these articles mentioned damp sand.  Again some conflicting info in this reading but worth experimenting some, as I do have regulate Butia and Syagrus seeds I can work with besides the mules.

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1 hour ago, Scott W said:

Yeah I failed grossly a few years back not knowing Butia can take upwards to two years to germinate as well as really needing the heat put to them.  I did buy some of Erik's mule seed and have been researching optimizing germination hence me having these articles bookmarked.  And yes he's the one that mentioned cold storage, he also definitely said don't plant right away.

I also recently went to a 75% perlite 25% peat seed mix, and these articles mentioned damp sand.  Again some conflicting info in this reading but worth experimenting some, as I do have regulate Butia and Syagrus seeds I can work with besides the mules.

Thanks for confirming - good to know that my memory is still working OK...at least for now!

Jon Sunder

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