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Phoenix roebelenii strap leaves closed

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ZPalms

One minute they were all open and doing fine and then I checked on them and they closed up, I watered the pot and only one opened back up and the others look like a strand of grass and I'm confused what happened? Is it cause I missed a watering or something? Are they gonna be ok?

 

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lzorrito

Water it from below, not from the top.

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ZPalms
8 hours ago, lzorrito said:

Water it from below, not from the top.

How can I get the water through the bottom up through the sand? it's a really deep pot, I feel like I screwed myself over?

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Umbrae

keep on doing what your doing and have some patience

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Rickybobby

Possible too much water 

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ZPalms
15 hours ago, Umbrae said:

keep on doing what your doing and have some patience

 

13 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

Possible too much water 

I have 53 seeds in there to germinate so I water often but lately I've been watering it less and I didnt water it for 5 days and they closed up, I thought maybe it was the lack of water but only one opened up when I watered it, So I'm a bit confused but I'll just continue to water them???

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JLM
4 hours ago, ZPalms said:

 

I have 53 seeds in there to germinate so I water often but lately I've been watering it less and I didnt water it for 5 days and they closed up, I thought maybe it was the lack of water but only one opened up when I watered it, So I'm a bit confused but I'll just continue to water them???

If thats the case, yes, water more. Ive noticed that even on larger roebeleniis the leaflets close up when they lack water. 

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Rickybobby

I have found that when a seedling suffocates from too much water or soggy soil they close up

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ZPalms
12 hours ago, JLM said:

If thats the case, yes, water more. Ive noticed that even on larger roebeleniis the leaflets close up when they lack water. 

 

1 hour ago, Rickybobby said:

I have found that when a seedling suffocates from too much water or soggy soil they close up

I'm so confused if I'm suppose to water more or less?? I didn't think sand held water, I thought it kept moist but not muddy???

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JLM
34 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

 

I'm so confused if I'm suppose to water more or less?? I didn't think sand held water, I thought it kept moist but not muddy???

I would follow @Rickybobby's advice, he certainly has more experience with these than i do, especially with seedlings. I cant really answer your sand question, although sand is something included in some peoples soil mixtures.

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ZPalms
13 hours ago, JLM said:

I would follow @Rickybobby's advice, he certainly has more experience with these than i do, especially with seedlings. I cant really answer your sand question, although sand is something included in some peoples soil mixtures.

 

16 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

I have found that when a seedling suffocates from too much water or soggy soil they close up

Alrighty, I'll water less but I'm not sure how often I'm suppose to water only sand and keep it good enough for the other seeds too :blink:

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Rickybobby

Well your finger will tell you. So if you check out my latest video it was on this subject. What I do is check the soil but I dig down deep. In pots usually the bottom is always moist or wet. Usually in between. The root rot usually starts there. So what I do is use a watering can which is gentle and I water the top so that it becomes moist and just adds to the bottom. With say coco and perlite for soil there’s no issues with salts. Unless you fertilize all the time. This helps keep the roots healthy indoors during the winter. When I started off I would soak the palms like a lot of videos showed. Yeah that works outdoors when’s its 90f out and the sun makes the pot on fire but not indoors. Hope that helps 

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Rickybobby

Seedling wise or even potted palm wise for me anyways. When a palm gets no water it just dries out. When you over water like mad abs keep it soaked the leaflets close. Trachycarpus are notorious for that for me anyway. Biggest mistake in potted palms I’ve ever made is too much water. Too often.  I literally water my big guys maybe every 3-4 weeks and my room is heated 

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ZPalms
On 11/29/2021 at 5:57 PM, Rickybobby said:

Seedling wise or even potted palm wise for me anyways. When a palm gets no water it just dries out. When you over water like mad abs keep it soaked the leaflets close. Trachycarpus are notorious for that for me anyway. Biggest mistake in potted palms I’ve ever made is too much water. Too often.  I literally water my big guys maybe every 3-4 weeks and my room is heated 

How do I water enough to make sure the seeds stay moist enought to germinate without over watering?

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teddytn

@ZPalms this is what I do to germinate seeds. Community pot, I did half vermiculite and half composted humus ( as long as the mixture is loose the exact ingredients aren’t as important ). Place the seeds and then cover with a 1/4”-1/2” of the same mix. I water that first day and then don’t water again until I see green leaves. The key is covering it with plastic and making a greenhouse and putting the pots on a heat mat. Those are all Sabal species in the pots.ABA553A4-C930-4D0D-9802-8F36A3FD68DA.thumb.jpeg.8d01554040f785ba26d1aba3acb8bc05.jpegThe first to sprout Sabal palmetto33D5A19C-858C-4059-BF7E-0320759105B2.thumb.jpeg.7ae5d6241cc8cf76326f4dd0ad220b7b.jpeg

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ZPalms
1 hour ago, teddytn said:

@ZPalms this is what I do to germinate seeds. Community pot, I did half vermiculite and half composted humus ( as long as the mixture is loose the exact ingredients aren’t as important ). Place the seeds and then cover with a 1/4”-1/2” of the same mix. I water that first day and then don’t water again until I see green leaves. The key is covering it with plastic and making a greenhouse and putting the pots on a heat mat. Those are all Sabal species in the pots.ABA553A4-C930-4D0D-9802-8F36A3FD68DA.thumb.jpeg.8d01554040f785ba26d1aba3acb8bc05.jpegThe first to sprout Sabal palmetto33D5A19C-858C-4059-BF7E-0320759105B2.thumb.jpeg.7ae5d6241cc8cf76326f4dd0ad220b7b.jpeg

Should I dig the other seeds out the pot I have and move them into something else? I've been using strictly sand but the last time I accidentally uprooted one of my roebelenii seedlings it died

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teddytn
58 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Should I dig the other seeds out the pot I have and move them into something else? I've been using strictly sand but the last time I accidentally uprooted one of my roebelenii seedlings it died

You can check to see if the seeds have sprouted by just touching them, if there’s any resistance then it’s definitely sprouted the first leaves just haven’t emerged yet. If not then of course you can move them if you want, some seeds are stubborn. If you could cover what you’ve got going with kitchen plastic wrap and put on top of a heat mat or at least the warmest place you have available inside then it should help by itself. Regulating the environment so it’s as close to constant is important for high seed germination rates. Same as a baby being in the womb. Don’t be afraid to experiment. I dig everything you’ve got going! :shaka-2:

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ZPalms
33 minutes ago, teddytn said:

You can check to see if the seeds have sprouted by just touching them, if there’s any resistance then it’s definitely sprouted the first leaves just haven’t emerged yet. If not then of course you can move them if you want, some seeds are stubborn. If you could cover what you’ve got going with kitchen plastic wrap and put on top of a heat mat or at least the warmest place you have available inside then it should help by itself. Regulating the environment so it’s as close to constant is important for high seed germination rates. Same as a baby being in the womb. Don’t be afraid to experiment. I dig everything you’ve got going! :shaka-2:

I really wish I didn't use such a tall big pot to germinate them cause if I were to get a heat mat I don't think it would even be enough to get it through the whole pot, and I don't really have anywhere in my house that's a constant warm temperature especially this time of year. All of my roebelenii seedlings have decided to close their leaves so I'll try to poke a stick in the center of the sand and create a greenhouse with plastic wrap cause maybe the air is too dry?

Edited by ZPalms

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teddytn
1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

I really wish I didn't use such a tall big pot to germinate them cause if I were to get a heat mat I don't think it would even be enough to get it through the whole pot, and I don't really have anywhere in my house that's a constant warm temperature especially this time of year. All of my roebelenii seedlings have decided to close their leaves so I'll try to poke a stick in the center of the sand and create a greenhouse with plastic wrap cause maybe the air is too dry?

A heat mat will help regardless of the size pot, you’re right less though if really tall. Heat rises the same through the pot though. If you can’t get one, PM me your address and I’ll send you one for Christmas. 

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ZPalms
5 hours ago, teddytn said:

A heat mat will help regardless of the size pot, you’re right less though if really tall. Heat rises the same through the pot though. If you can’t get one, PM me your address and I’ll send you one for Christmas. 

I would love to get a heat mat for germinating and keeping seedlings warm but I'm always without money to buy the things I need but I could never bother anyone to spend money on me because it makes me feel bad!

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ZPalms

Just found out that they all are dying, They are starting to turn brown and I created a greenhouse over them but it just grew mold :( I don't know if they are even alive still cause they look brown or a very pale yellow

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JLM
3 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Just found out that they all are dying, They are starting to turn brown and I created a greenhouse over them but it just grew mold :( I don't know if they are even alive still cause they look brown or a very pale yellow

I have found these to be the absolute most picky palms ive ever had. I am going to have to update my signature, because here we are well over a month of them drying out due to being pot bound, and they are starting to spear pull -_- 

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ZPalms
34 minutes ago, JLM said:

I have found these to be the absolute most picky palms ive ever had. I am going to have to update my signature, because here we are well over a month of them drying out due to being pot bound, and they are starting to spear pull -_- 

I'm having the worst luck with them and I wanted some soooo bad, I wish I could transplant them but they are sooooo young

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Phoenikakias

Either Rhizoctonia or insufficient  watering. Roebelenii is a sp that does not always recover from dry soil. Sometimes it survives with a considerable set back, sometimes it simply dies.  Damping off or Rhizoctonia is another major cause of death for sprouted seedlings.

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ZPalms
25 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Either Rhizoctonia or insufficient  watering. Roebelenii is a sp that does not always recover from dry soil. Sometimes it survives with a considerable set back, sometimes it simply dies.  Damping off or Rhizoctonia is another major cause of death for sprouted seedlings.

Can Rhizoctonia happen in pure sand?

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Phoenikakias

Fungal spores can hide anywhere.

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ZPalms
Just now, Phoenikakias said:

Fungal spores can hide anywhere.

I hope its just because of my inconsistent watering and not rhizoctonia cause that would suck

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Phoenikakias
1 minute ago, ZPalms said:

I hope its just because of my inconsistent watering and not rhizoctonia cause that would suck

Better sterilize pots and soil, but I agree that most probable cause of death in this case is negligence to watering.

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ZPalms
4 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Better sterilize pots and soil, but I agree that most probable cause of death in this case is negligence to watering.

If It was possible I'd transplant the sprouted ones to another container but the chances of them dying on the move is incredibly high, They have some green on them but they are pale green

Edited by ZPalms

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PalmsandLiszt
On 12/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, ZPalms said:

I really wish I didn't use such a tall big pot to germinate them cause if I were to get a heat mat I don't think it would even be enough to get it through the whole pot, and I don't really have anywhere in my house that's a constant warm temperature especially this time of year. All of my roebelenii seedlings have decided to close their leaves so I'll try to poke a stick in the center of the sand and create a greenhouse with plastic wrap cause maybe the air is too dry?

Use a suitable size clear plastic bag that extends down to the surface of the heat mat and you'll trap the warm air around (and within) the pot regardless of how tall it is or what it's made of. Here is a (very!) crude illustration:
hm.png.10866b1dc9f6f86697a5063052c35290.png
Stick a piece of bamboo or dowel in the pot to prop up the plastic to the right height to accommodate the seedlings. This very simple and cheap arrangement can easily make the difference between seedlings growing well and not growing at all.

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ZPalms
3 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

Use a suitable size clear plastic bag that extends down to the surface of the heat mat and you'll trap the warm air around (and within) the pot regardless of how tall it is or what it's made of. Here is a (very!) crude illustration:
hm.png.10866b1dc9f6f86697a5063052c35290.png
Stick a piece of bamboo or dowel in the pot to prop up the plastic to the right height to accommodate the seedlings. This very simple and cheap arrangement can easily make the difference between seedlings growing well and not growing at all.

I'll try and get a heating mat but I did put a stick into the sand with plastic wrap over it and some weird white mold grew which I was able to get off by removing the stick and rinsing them, maybe the heating pad would help

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PalmsandLiszt

 

On 12/22/2021 at 10:03 AM, ZPalms said:

I'll try and get a heating mat but I did put a stick into the sand with plastic wrap over it and some weird white mold grew which I was able to get off by removing the stick and rinsing them, maybe the heating pad would help

The point is warmth rather than humidity. Yes, you need a certain level of humidity, but warmth is arguably more important. There are fungi that will grow in practically any environment, but air movement tends to put them off. Remove the plastic daily to check on your plants and you'll get rid of the stale air. Besides, most fungi don't do any harm; I doubt it's anything to worry about.
Not sure why you've sowed these in sand, when they come from southern China and grow in normal soil. Sand loses water very quickly, so I'm very much on the 'not enough water' side with regard to your seedlings. Leaves contract to prevent transpiration and water loss; I imagine they don't like being in sand.

Edited by PalmsandLiszt
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ZPalms
13 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

 

The point is warmth rather than humidity. Yes, you need a certain level of humidity, but warmth is arguably more important. There are fungi that will grow in practically any environment, but air movement tends to put them off. Remove the plastic daily to check on your plants and you'll get rid of the stale air. Besides, most fungi don't do any harm; I doubt it's anything to worry about.
Not sure why you've sowed these in sand, when they come from southern China and grow in normal soil. Sand loses water very quickly, so I'm very much on the 'not enough water' side with regard to your seedlings. Leaves contract to prevent transpiration and water loss; I imagine they don't like being in sand.

I would move them from sand if I knew they wouldnt just die and I don't know if they are even alive anymore but I chose sand cause I saw youtube video on how to grow them and they used just sand but they were in india so the weather might be ideal for them to grow in sand their and not much here since they could be outside all the time in india, I just got a heat mat under them so I hope this will help if they are even alive anymore :(

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Palmlover_78

I've tried to germinate Pygmy seeds last year, you got further then I did  I had no success , and yet Windmills and Christmas Palms , all good.

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PalmsandLiszt
On 12/27/2021 at 2:30 AM, ZPalms said:

I would move them from sand if I knew they wouldnt just die and I don't know if they are even alive anymore but I chose sand cause I saw youtube video on how to grow them and they used just sand but they were in india so the weather might be ideal for them to grow in sand their and not much here since they could be outside all the time in india, I just got a heat mat under them so I hope this will help if they are even alive anymore :(

I wonder if what passes for 'sand' in India has considerably more organic matter in it than the pretty pure inorganic sand we get in the West. Alternatively, it could simply have been a rogue video (a lot of videos from third world countries are confected to get clicks; be generally sceptical of them (this is not to say there are not videos from people in India containing genuinely good advice)). There are loads of fake videos on YouTube on growing things that won't work trying to get monetisation, and who can blame them, really, if they live in conditions we'd never tolerate.

I'd try re-potting one in something with a lot more water-retention (but well-draining), with heat; if the contracted ones are really contracted and not dessicated, they're still alive, but they don't like something about your setup. I bought a few sprouted seeds of W. bifurcata ages ago, from halfway across the world, and they arrived bone dry, but roots still white and eophyll spears still slightly green. I potted them up on arrival and they did nothing for months, until I put them on heat and enclosed them in plastic, and now I have leaves. Some palm seedlings are pretty tough; I don't know if P. roebelinii is one of those (never tried growing them). But if the ones you have are dying anyway, you don't have anything to lose.

Edited by PalmsandLiszt

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Umbrae

I never use sand , ever , and the pygmy seed should be like wedds. I put a pinch 5 or 6 or 8 seed in each 38 count plug tray , cover them about an inch inch and a half and let it rip , of not enough seed come up I simply plant two plugs per one gallon 

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